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Post by toprowguy on Jan 6, 2007 19:50:08 GMT -6
I'm sure we all have our own ways to breakdown film, whether it be our own film or our oppenents offensive or defense.
I would like to hear how everyone goes about looking at film because I think we are always looking for new ways of doing it.
What forms do you use???
What are you looking for???
How do look for tendencies?
Who on your staff breaks the film down???
What are some of your coaches responsibilties when they are watching film???(ex: WR Coach has all the Opp. Coverages)
Do you use a computer system to break it down or do you the old school paper and pencil method???
I know its a lot but I think everyone has there own way to do it.
Thanks
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 6, 2007 20:10:39 GMT -6
I would like to hear how everyone goes about looking at film We have a sheet that is formatted in the order of the input program we use (DSV). It includes all the information we chart--- Down/Distance/Hash Yardline Offense Formations (very basic) Offensive Play (very, very basic) Defensive Front Defensive Line Stunt Defensive Blitz (LB and/or secondary) Defensive Coverage We break down the film (the first time) as fast as we can. We don't bother rewinding and looking at anything. We are merely trying to get the chart filled out and that information input into the computer. We will do a more indepth look during the other viewings of our opponent's defense. By the way, since we use DSV, once we get the information input into the computer, and digitzied to the appropriate cuts, we never view "random" stuff again. i.e. just "watch the film". We are able to view our opponent very, very specifically. i.e. "how do they defend oneback sets?" ... "how do they play in the red zone?".... "what do they do after a turnover?" etc, etc. you name it, we can view it at click of a button DSV program automaticlly spits them out. Then, we take that information and go immediately to those clips to view it. We then take what that opponent did to them and see how that fits us. DSV takes all the "searching" out of it. We don't have to watch the film 8 times to find a tendency ... DSV gives it to us in the reports as soon as we input it (that's why we get data input in before doing anything else). Then, we are able to take that data and run with it. Our entire offensive staff breaks down the film. Each coach as a specific responsibility when doing so. OC - run cowboy, name offensive formation, name offensive scheme OL - name front / line stunt RB - name blitz REC - name coverage Assist. OL - record data onto the breakdown sheets 2 Freshmen coaches - encode video and input data from sheets yes, DSV -- there is none better ... lol |
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Jan 6, 2007 22:42:38 GMT -6
I have always used the same forms when I watch film. Just basic stuff. For their offense- formation, play, result, down, distance, ball carrier, etc. For their defense- front, coverage, blitz, down, distance, etc. And I always make sure to write down the personnel.
When I first started, I did the entire breakdown by myself on both sides. In fact, I was the only person who watched films. It sucked.
2 years ago, I watched the films for an hour or so before church on Sunday and then watched them later to prepare against the other teams defense.
This year, it was back to watching films by myself. My assistants are pretty busy (and one was newly married). It is tough to find a time to get everyone together. Especially when the pay is not so good. I think in the future we will probably do it more together. I think I would watch 8-10 hours of film a week. It took that long to break it down. When I look bad, it seemed like such a waste considering our record. However, there was never a game that we weren't prepared for. There was never a play that surprised us, we were just so bad that we couldn't stop it. I can't imagine what would have happened if I hadn't spent all that time. Plus, films were a nice thing to pass the time while my son was teething and not sleeping.
I pray for the day we can get something like DSV. But we are poor (or at least that is what the school leads us to believe). I have a program for my computer (Sony Vegas) that I use for our highlight films and the like and I am working with it now to see if I can speed up the process of watching films after school. I just need something to break down the tendencies for me, because that takes forever.
BTW Huey, how long does it take to get all the film run through and prepared with DSV,
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 6, 2007 22:50:11 GMT -6
Huey, how long does it take to get all the film run through and prepared with DSV, 1 game, takes about an hour to breakdown ... takes the guys to input it about 30 minutes. we give them a sheet as we finish (each sheet has 25 plays). whole process of breaking down tapes & inputing the data takes about 4 hours (we do 3 games) ... but, we have both tight & wide angles attached at the end. |
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Post by CVBears on Jan 6, 2007 23:14:50 GMT -6
Coach Huey-
DSV sounds like the second coming. Where does a guy get it and around how much does it set a guy back? Any suggestions?
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 6, 2007 23:19:46 GMT -6
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Post by CVBears on Jan 6, 2007 23:31:29 GMT -6
thanks !!!
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 7, 2007 8:28:47 GMT -6
How long does it take to get yout film on to DVS??? The system we have it takes real time to get it on. This is a problem when you only have on tape.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 7, 2007 11:02:21 GMT -6
it takes real time for each tape. but, we have 3 input stations so we upload all 3 "wide" angles at one time, then upload all 3 "tight" angles. we will have all 3 games (both angles -- 6 tapes) uploaded within 2 hours of getting those tapes.
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Post by otowncoach on Jan 7, 2007 14:20:56 GMT -6
Coach Huey-
This may be for the forms section, but can I trouble you for a copy of the breakdown form that you use that matches with DSV? Thanks!
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Post by jraybern on Jan 7, 2007 14:59:25 GMT -6
We use ProScout and we only have 2 coaches working on the scouting side of things. This means it takes us about 10 hours on saturdays to break down the 3 games. The head coach and I would watch every play several times. He would diagram the play on a yellow legal pad while I did all of the data input for ProScout. I would say we watched any NEW play 8-10 times (sometimes more) to try to figure out what they were trying to do. Any play that we had already seen was easy, just re-enter the data. Then we could print reports from ProScout (although I was not impressed with them at all). The head coach would pass on his notes to another assistant who would draw up all of the plays on the computer to print out scouting reports. We would give the kids a DVD with the games on it as well as a paper report. Some kids really took advantage of it and some kids frustrate you by not preparing at all. As far as tendencies, I think the head coach takes the reports and his notes and tries to develop a game plan from that and then the DC watches the film and talks with the HC and they come up with a game plan and talk about adjustments we need to make for that opponent.
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Post by bluboy on Jan 7, 2007 15:50:17 GMT -6
I guess I am a dinosaur. I simply write everything down on a legal pad. When we breakdown the video, we simply write everything down. We do not draw anything; we put it all in words (OUR TERMINOLOGY). The only time we draw someting is if we're not sure what to call it or if it is something that we we can not put into OUR TERMINOLOGY. We do this Sat. morning while the other coaches are running the morning workout. Sometimes we can get a game done in an hour, sometimes longer. It all depends on how good a job the vidoe guys did videoing.
The next step is drawing each formation and motion on the board and then writing in what play were run from each formation. This does not take as long as the film breakdown.
Before we leave, we have an idea of what the opponent likes to do in regard to formations and plays from each formation.
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nabber
Freshmen Member
Posts: 42
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Post by nabber on Jan 7, 2007 16:20:53 GMT -6
Last year was my first year as a DC and I had a system I was pretty happy with. The first time through I drew up each play and recorded basic info such as down and dist., hash, formation, play, etc. Then I went back through and listed each play with the same basic info. I then used this to pick up tendencies. I listed each play by down, hash, formation and anything else I thought might help as far as tendencies. I then calculated % to make sure it wasn't just my perception. As a science teacher I like to put numbers to things. It took me about two hours per film to draw the plays and another hour or two to list the plays and analyze it. It would be great to have DSV or something similar to make it easier.
Like "coachf", I am not sure how much it helped. We went 2-8 and weren't exactly world beaters on defense. But, we were always prepared and I felt good about putting in the prep work. I learned a lot and really enjoyed doing it.
As far as watching film as a staff, we did not do much. To be honest, I think I was the only one really watching film and breaking it down. I know the other guys only watched it when we watched as a staff for about two hours on Sunday night and that's it.
As a DC I know how important the film breakdown is, my question is for you OCs. How much film do you breakdown and what do you look for?
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Post by dacoachmo on Jan 7, 2007 21:38:06 GMT -6
I look for Blitz tendencies. Alignment versus formations.
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Post by mitch on Jan 8, 2007 11:57:47 GMT -6
DSV, Proscout, etc. is a buttache if you are the only one on staff doing it. It will literally take all day to load 3 games if you take any breaks at all to let your senses return from staring at a computer screen. If you do it like Coach Huey and team up to do it, I think its great. But if you're the only one on staff that can even turn on computer, it will drive you insane.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Jan 8, 2007 14:17:56 GMT -6
This is a good discussion and the post made me think about how I do some things. I have always spent so long breaking everything down. It sucks and I think it is the only thing that made us even competitive this year, but I think I may need to change. I read the post by spread attack smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/01/rock-paper-scissors-edgar-allan-poe-and.htmlIt makes a lot of sense to me. I always had % on everything. They run Power 34.5% of the time on 1st and 28.7% of the time they run Waggle. It was just insane. I think I over-analyze to much and try to out-think my opponent. I think that now I will probably approach scouting as a tool for practice, more than a tool for what will happen on the field. |
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Post by ribeale on Jan 8, 2007 19:48:35 GMT -6
From our stand point, i use a palm while watching the games first on saturday morning, I input the opponents offense on digital scout. By Saturday evening I have the tendencies in front of me and I am ready for our staff meeting on sunday. I am not the DC, but i have us as prepared as can be, we then watch the opponents again as a staff to catch anything else we might have missed the first time around. Is DVS that much better than digital scout?
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 8, 2007 19:51:53 GMT -6
Is DVS that much better than digital scout? Yes it is. Words cannot describe what it can do --- and do for your team. |
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Post by Mav on Jan 8, 2007 22:14:29 GMT -6
Is DVS that much better than digital scout? For us, the importance of the reporting phase of scouting is fairly small -- probably less than 25%. The real power behind digital video editing is having the ability to instantly pull up your opponents plays using dozens of variables. It's amazing how much more useful info you can get from instant video versus data reports. Just imagine clicking on any of the numeric results of the Digital Scout reports and watching all of the corresponding plays. btw- most video editing systems will import the data from Digital Scout and link it to the video clips. |
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Post by cowboyup58 on Jan 9, 2007 12:57:14 GMT -6
We always did charted down & distance, formation, play, hash, yardline. etc. just like the others have mentioned, then what we did as a staff was draw up all the formations and put the plays with the formations. I would take all of this information and we would make a chart of the final percentages.
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 9, 2007 19:59:23 GMT -6
On offense we will split our responsiblities up.
I will breakdown the games on our digital system then I will convert our systems format to Excel and from there I will get the tendences. I have to convert it to Excel because our tendency reports on the system are very limited in Excel you can do almost anything. Still trying to figure out how to use Pivot Tables .
The tendencies I look for are Base D, Coverage, Blitz, D&D, and formation.
While I'm breaking it down on the computer our OL coach is drawing up each front and stunt the D has show on our prepared formation sheets. From these sheets I will draw up the fronts and stunts on PowerPoint to use for our scout team cards during the week and for our scouting report we give the kids.
Its tough being the computer geek on the staff because I end up doing all the computer work but I love it.
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Jan 9, 2007 21:06:59 GMT -6
toprowguy,
thanks to you and your fellow coaches for coming to our banquet Sunday. Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk, but I was working in the morning and by the time I got there you were already getting your ear bent by some parents..LOL. But then again, you probably didn't want to waste any time talking to a double wing guy..;-)
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 10, 2007 21:04:03 GMT -6
bhb,
We had a nice time on Sunday. Always have to take care of the people that take care of you and your program is our life line and our future. I like the DW think of using it as our short yardage offense next year. I might have to make the trip to Texas with you guys next year.
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Jan 10, 2007 22:11:36 GMT -6
I always video it and have plenty of video and playbooks and resources on it if you need it. You know you're welcome to anything I have- which is pretty much every single peice of DW info. ever written, recorded, or attempted LOL. Hey, if nothing else it can help you against CHW next season.. LOL.. Just say the word, and what's mine is yours, as you know.
Are you guys planning on doing the clinics again? You know I'll be there- just say football and I'm there..
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Post by spartancoach on Jan 11, 2007 15:12:50 GMT -6
from an offensive point of view, I agree with dacoachmo, we look for blitz tendencies and alignment vs. formation. But also pay particular attention to who is making the tackles and why. Determine opponent's best and worst DL, LB and DB and game plan to take advantage of personnel.
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 11, 2007 16:28:53 GMT -6
I think personnel is a huge part ofr breaking down film that alot of coaches miss. If you can identify their best players you can X and O to neutralize them.
Also with finding out who is making the tackle can help you find problems in your system and blovking assignments.
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wallybrooks
Freshmen Member
[F4:Jwdavis13] [F4:jwdavis13]
Posts: 72
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Post by wallybrooks on Jan 19, 2007 11:20:12 GMT -6
What forms do you use??? Here is a link to the forms I used during the season. www.savefile.com/projects/243484 if you cannot access savefile you can e-mail me at jayjenn@cebridge.net and I will send you the forms. What are you looking for??? How do look for tendencies? I input the information on the computer using excel, then I start cutting/pasting and sorting to find what I want. I am not smart enough to figure out pivot tables so that is why I do it this way. Who on your staff breaks the film down??? One coach cuts the film to a vhs tape then we make a DVD cut tape for each coach What are some of your coaches responsibilties when they are watching film???(ex: WR Coach has all the Opp. Coverages) One guy runs the remote, one fills out the breakdown sheet, and another coach watches the routes. Do you use a computer system to break it down or do you the old school paper and pencil method??? We use both. We do not have DSV, but I use excel to get my tendencies and I use windows movie maker to capture our game film and a dazzle unit to convert vhs to dvd and use roxio to make our dvds. This is a great topic |
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 19, 2007 12:08:33 GMT -6
Awesome forms, I will be putting some of these to use next season.
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 19, 2007 12:21:35 GMT -6
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Post by dhooper on Jan 19, 2007 15:03:44 GMT -6
I've been using DSV for a while now love it. Saves so much time. It is worth buying for any head coach or d-coord. saves a lot of time. Any way break down film on DSV, then study the players. Take there top plays and then take them away from them. Have a answer for there blitzes and there goal line def. Always pick on there weakness.
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