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Post by pantherpride91 on Dec 11, 2007 12:13:00 GMT -6
I was wondering how you guys out there would handle this situation.....Maybe some of you have been in it before....What is the thought process that goes through your head when making the decision...As we all know there is no such thing as an automatic field goal in high school, especially with the game on the line.
- Can my defense stop them from goin 99 yds in 3 mins
- Does my O-line have one more push in them
- Do I trust my kickoff team to make a tackle
I have never been a head coach but this year we were put in two situations to make a decision. Kick an extra point or go for the win with a two point conversion. Both times the HC turned to me asked what I thought and without hesitation I said you go for two (we happened to get both).
Now maybe I am just young and stupid (more than stupid than young I think) but I would have told him that 100 out of 100 times.
As far as the situation above I would go for it 100% of the time as well. I would prolly go for it tied 0-0 in the first quarter. Am I alone on this thought? Is there anyone who would not even think about going for it?
I just wonder about these things when I these teams drive 75 yards and then kick a 19 yard field goal. I know points are good but does it tell you team anything when you do not trust them to get 2 yards?
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Post by sls on Dec 11, 2007 12:24:19 GMT -6
Need more info to answer...
How good is your kicker? This year I would of kicked, other years no.
How did they score their 17? Special teams, int returned, big plays, long drives
How did you get to the 2? How did you score your 17? Special teams, int returned, big plays, long drives
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Post by dubber on Dec 11, 2007 12:25:45 GMT -6
In that situation, it would all depend on my FG team.
If we can consistently protect and get make our PAT's, I have no problem going up 7.
Obviously, if we can't kick, and if we are a T-tight team like I was in high school, we run Power Boot.
As for the whole "trusting your offense to get two yards deal"........I don't think it belies any confidence you have in them if you kick the FG. 6 feet is an awful lot with that many bodies down there, and you give them time to win with a TD if you don't get it.
That being said, I completely understand going for it......that's just not my decision preference
Didn't Bill Cowher have a decision like this when he had Slash in the late 90's.......he went for it and didn't get it, but the D held?
Not that it makes going for it right or wrong, but he apologized to his team after the game..........
........but he probably doesn't do that if he gets it
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Post by revtaz on Dec 11, 2007 12:34:18 GMT -6
First, Secure the win.
Go for it. If you can't get two yards you don't deserve to win. Football is a game of many things but above all else it is about desire. The kids are going to want to have to get those two yards. There is something truly beautiful about you lining up and knocking the other guy off his alignment and just making two yards.
I saw a film once of a team I used to coach. It's short and goal to go. The tackle comes out, comes to the line and points exactly where the ball is going. Right in the gap between the Guard and tackle. Pointed it right out. Now for some teams that is murder, no one does that. This kid wanted the other kids to know "I am going to dominate you."
How freakin awesome is that?!?
Now back to what I was saying...
Secure the win. If anything they have to drive 99 yards, from their endzone. That is tough. The chances of them going all the way is minimal. Still if you want to be safe, don't just sit on your honches and wait for them to come to you. Don't get tricky either (learned that from Sean Payton).
If anything get after them and challenge the kids to win. If you decide to kick it, you could give instant field position boost. In my state you miss and it's back to the 20.
Go for it.
Taz
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Post by ghscoach on Dec 11, 2007 12:34:35 GMT -6
All depends on what time in the game it is. In the situation you give I would likely go for it. If it was in the first quarter I may kick it.
This cost me a few games this year because I did not at least attempt a FG inside the opponents’ 5 yard line. We lost one game 7-6 and lost another 10-7. In both games we were inside the 10 yard line on at least 3 occasions and came up empty. Had I elected to kick a FG we my have won at least one of these games.
Also to me it all depends on the flow of the game. If my offense is having trouble moving the ball I may opt to kick. If we are rolling then I go for it.
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2007 12:46:13 GMT -6
1) kick the FG to force them to score within 2 1/2 minutes
but other factors to consider
2) why didn't I convert in the 3 downs I was given? Did we kill ourselves, or was their GL package just that good?
3) how potent is the opponent's offense for a quick strike? (can they effectively run a 2 MIN offense?)
4) are my kids going both ways? If so, I probably go for it on 4th.
5) Do I have all my time outs left? A portion? ...if I have them all, it makes going for it a little more easier to manage the remaining game.
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Post by pantherpride91 on Dec 11, 2007 12:49:15 GMT -6
Need more info to answer... How good is your kicker? This year I would of kicked, other years no. How did they score their 17? Special teams, int returned, big plays, long drives How did you get to the 2? How did you score your 17? Special teams, int returned, big plays, long drives Kicker is middle of the road good leg...very inconsistent Scored their 17 on a 12 play 88 yard drive a 54 yard yard run and a 29 yard field goal We got our 21 on 2 touchdown passes of 7 and 32 off sustained drives and a 75 yard run but other than that the run has been only getting about 3-4 yards a pop all day |
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 11, 2007 13:02:47 GMT -6
Go for it everytime. Even if I have a superstar kicker.
up 4? They still need a touchdown. We score a TD, we're up 2 scores. We fail to score...they not have to drive 99 yards for a score.
Flip side, I kick a field goal. Make it.
Now they still need a TD (granted to tie instead of win). But we have to defend a kick-off, and best case they start from the 20.
Go for it. Every time, at every level from pee-wee to pros.
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Post by superpower on Dec 11, 2007 13:09:44 GMT -6
I am with the guys who say to go for it. I wouldn't even hesitate. We would go for the TD every time.
Having said that, we haven't attempted a PAT kick or FG the past two years! ;D I really think our kids would be upset if I didn't go for it. That is the attitude that we have developed. We are going to get the TD, and our kids want to get it done.
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Post by spreadattack on Dec 11, 2007 13:15:14 GMT -6
Go for it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 11, 2007 14:10:29 GMT -6
Good question. I certainly am not one of the "GO FOR IT" without thinking crowd here. What is the big play potential here? 2:50 seconds is an ETERNITY in H.S, especially against a team that already broke a 54 yard run on me. What do I think their 2 minute offense is going to be? Will it be just throw it up deep and hope to come down with it? If so, then does it matter if they start at the -2 or the -30? Or will they try and drive it ?
OPTIONS:
1) Go for it and make it- I give them the ball backwith a kick-off down two scores with 2:50 to play. They have to score a TD and a FG in 2:50 to beat me
2) Go for it and miss- I give them the ball back with 2:50 to play. They have to drive 98 yards to score a TD to beat me.
3)Kick it and make it- I I give them the ball back with a kick-off down one score with 2:50. THEY STILL have to score a TD and a FG in 2:50 to beat me in regulation, but my chances of winning in regulation have diminished.
4) kick it and miss--See #2
I think I would probably kick the FG if i felt reasonably assured I would make it, unless I hung my hat on being a power football team all year.
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Post by airman on Dec 11, 2007 14:54:51 GMT -6
I guess it all depends on your mentality. if you are like a lot of coaches you treat 4th down like it is a special ed child adn you do some thing differently.
if you are like some of us, you just see 4th down as another down. I know a double winger who preaches 4 dwons to get 10 yds from day one. they rarely punt.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 11, 2007 20:12:29 GMT -6
It is different, because there are different options/consequences/results after the play.
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Post by sls on Dec 11, 2007 20:35:11 GMT -6
With a good kikcer I think I kick it! Poor kikcer, go for it.
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Post by phantom on Dec 11, 2007 20:37:06 GMT -6
If you have a kicker, kick it and go up a full TD.
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Post by sweeptilltheyweep on Dec 11, 2007 22:45:41 GMT -6
Kick it. Trust your defense. if you have timeouts you could concievably get the ball back. If you're the better team you'll most likely win in overtime as well. giving the other team a CHANCE to WIN in regulation is about the worst thing you can do.
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Post by silkyice on Dec 11, 2007 22:54:25 GMT -6
Go for it.
I don't care how good my FG team is. I don't want to kickoff to them (unless up 11), give them the ball on 20, or get my kick blocked.
You score you win. You don't, you still should.
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Post by Yash on Dec 11, 2007 23:20:16 GMT -6
Depends on how the drive has gone and what plays i've called. Have I run it up the middle and gotten stuffed 3 times, probably kick. If I've tried 3 different style of plays and gotten nothing probably kick, but if I've had some success, I go to what got me there and punch it in. Also depends on the defense. If I have a defense that gives up a lot of big plays, I might want to be safe kick the FG and play not to lose. If I have a timeout to burn, I call a timeout, walk out to the huddle and look the kids in the eyes. If they say coach, run behind me and well get in, I tend to trust them (until they prove me wrong) if they have heads hung, I kick a FG.
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Post by tribepride on Dec 12, 2007 8:04:28 GMT -6
It's not my decision but the header would go for it 100% of the time. The only choice would be to run the ball or play action.
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Post by realdawg on Dec 12, 2007 12:14:36 GMT -6
We had a decent kicker and EP team, our offense is spread and we are not always very good in GL/short yardage situations, however, our kickoff team was inconsistant at best. I think I would kick it though with all things considered. If I was feeling really big and bad I would run a fake FG.
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 12, 2007 13:00:53 GMT -6
Kick it. Trust your defense. if you have timeouts you could concievably get the ball back. If you're the better team you'll most likely win in overtime as well. giving the other team a CHANCE to WIN in regulation is about the worst thing you can do. I know everyone has their opinion on things...but I am kind surprised by the variety of responses here. Option 14 pt lead 3 minutes remaining, opponent has to drive 99 yards to win Option 27 Point lead, 3 minutes remaining, opponent gets a kickoff return and has to drive length of the field. Nevermind that the FG is not a given or that you have a chance to put the game out of reach with a TD. I'm just surprised that coach's would select Option 2 I guess. |
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Post by sweeptilltheyweep on Dec 12, 2007 15:08:45 GMT -6
Why are people so afraid of the kickoff. It's not like theyve been running wild on you all night. they have 17 points, you've proven you can stop them. If they run the kickoff back then you get the ball back with a chance to win. the first thing you do is take away the other teams chance to win. going for it just shows insecurity and lack of faith in your team to me. I am a huge proponant of the law of averages. with all the info given, in this situation i kick the field goal. you only lose 18 yds of field position on a touchback
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 12, 2007 15:13:46 GMT -6
Why are people so afraid of the kickoff. It's not like theyve been running wild on you all night. they have 17 points, you've proven you can stop them. If they run the kickoff back then you get the ball back with a chance to win. the first thing you do is take away the other teams chance to win. going for it just shows insecurity and lack of faith in your team to me. I am a huge proponant of the law of averages. with all the info given, in this situation i kick the field goal. you only lose 18 yds of field position on a touchback I'm not afraid of the kickoff in giving up a TD...It's more about the field position. Our best kickoff coverage holds our opponent within the 35. So, the question still is. Would you rather have your opponent go 99 yards to beat you or 65 yards to tie you? |
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Post by superpower on Dec 12, 2007 15:31:34 GMT -6
Going for the TD, IMO, shows the opposite of insecurity. I am confident that our offense will score and give us a two score lead.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 12, 2007 18:11:11 GMT -6
Kick it. Trust your defense. if you have timeouts you could concievably get the ball back. If you're the better team you'll most likely win in overtime as well. giving the other team a CHANCE to WIN in regulation is about the worst thing you can do. I know everyone has their opinion on things...but I am kind surprised by the variety of responses here. Option 14 pt lead 3 minutes remaining, opponent has to drive 99 yards to win Option 27 Point lead, 3 minutes remaining, opponent gets a kickoff return and has to drive length of the field. Nevermind that the FG is not a given or that you have a chance to put the game out of reach with a TD. I'm just surprised that coach's would select Option 2 I guess. OPTION ONE's last word makes a HUGE difference. In option two, chances are they will have to drive less than 99 yards. BUT... it isn't for the WIN. It is a great question. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 12, 2007 22:02:34 GMT -6
with brophy ... WHY am i in this situation? what has happened in the first 3 downs to keep me from scoring?
also, how good is my FG team and kicker? how good are they at blocking kicks?
how good is their offense vs my defense? can i defend 80 yards? can i defend 60 yards? can i defend 90+ yards?
now, they must still go down and score a TD to beat me - FG for them won't do it. So, if I kick it that means they must go for 2 to beat me or will have to force overtime if they do score. obviously, a TD for us would pretty much ice the game. so, which situation do you want to play defense with?
decision to kick -- think about:
1. their kickoff return team. do they have ability to take it to the house vs your kickoff team? if you squib it, will give them ball 60-70 yds from a game-tying (or potential winning with 2point) TD.
2. if you miss it, can you defend 80 yards? ball would be placed on the 20 after your missed kick (assuming it not blocked)
decision to go for it:
1. can we get it?
2. can we defend 98 yds if we don't?
3. how much will momentum factor into my kids ability to play defense and their ability to execute on offense? (you know they'll be stoked if they stuff you on 4th & goal)
someone said "if you can't gain 2 yards you don't deserve to win." ... at the same time "if you can't defend 80 yards with 2 minutes do you deserve to win?"
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Post by theguru on Dec 13, 2007 13:12:49 GMT -6
it's real simple for me.
I'd go for it!!!
What is more likely, a 98 yard scoring drive or a 98 yard KO return?
i'd put my defense up against an offense that has only scored 17 points, to have to go 98 yards.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2007 13:37:43 GMT -6
guru--why is a 98 yard KO return (note--to tie the game) more likely (and worse in your opinion) than a 98 yard "drive" (which obviously could be one big play) that will beat you?
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Post by knighter on Dec 13, 2007 14:02:34 GMT -6
go for it. no brainer with me. i put the ball in the hands of my best back and run our best play. if we score and they run the kickoff back we will still have some clock left to have another shot as our special teams are also very good.
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Post by djwesp on Dec 13, 2007 14:36:45 GMT -6
Last year:
-Would have wondered how the heck we held the opposition to 17.
In reality, we would probably kick it. We are in a running league and 98 yards is a long way to go in that time frame. We also put a lot of emphasis on our kicking game, so why would we ditch it now?
Here's the real question. What would we/you do defensively if we give the ball back to them on the 2?
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