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Post by coachcb on May 4, 2007 17:37:55 GMT -6
Concussions have become an issue in this area over the past few years. Now bear in mind that it really has nothing to do with actual concussions and more to do with lawsuites.
Here's the situation; every year now, we do a big presentation with the parents dealing with signs and symptoms of concussions. We hand out packets and discuss the issue for about an hour. It's really a very good thing to do in terms of safety and liability, but it has come back to bite us in the butt.
Here's the problem; now that we have given the kids and parents this huge list of symptoms, we've had more and more kids claming to have concussions. A lot of the synptoms of a concussion are the same as dehydration; headache, nausea, dizziness, etc...
Two years ago, we had a dozen kids out of the freshman squad 2-a-days with concussions diagnosed by the athletic trainer. We had a nice little witch hunt going until we actually sat down and talked to the trainer. He said not to worry about it that the kids weren't really all that hurt. He said that most of them were fine, but because of the symptoms they were describing, he had to call it a concussion. But, because you can't really test for minor concussion (unless some real obvious signs are there; ie knocked out) his hands were totally tied by the school district.
It became a real issue; we had some very good athletes out of practice because their parents had them convinced they had a concussion. We also had a lot of kids just pulling the symptoms out of their butts because they didn't want to practice.
Either way, we were told by the administration that if the kids had 2 practices in during the week we had to play them. So, essentially, we had all of these kids with "concussions", missing practices, but we still had to play them. You could always pick out the fakers because they'd miss Tuesday and Wednesday, our toughest practices.
I finally got pissed off and sat the fakers our for an entire game. I ended up getting in trouble for it. What would you guys have done??
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Post by fort on May 4, 2007 17:56:57 GMT -6
The concussion issues is a tough one. IMO, you don't take chances with concussions at all (mainly because I've had much more than my fair share of them and I understand the problems they can cause), but if you've got a real feeling they are faking it, I don't see the problem with sitting them at all. What's your policy with other injury fakers? If they are sitting out of practice for no real reason, why should they be allowed to play in the games? I probably would have done the same.
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Post by coachcb on May 4, 2007 18:26:49 GMT -6
I always treat concussions seriously; I had a lot of problems with them in my playing days. Even in these situations, I took each case very seriously;asked questions and communicated with the kids about it daily. But, because we were told we HAD to play them, it was a never ending cycle.
Normally, dealing with fakers is easy; go to the trainer with them and check it all out. Our trainer was very good about giving us the thumbs up or down (except with the concussions) so it was pretty easy. Trainer says you can practice, then you'd better suite up. If you don't, then life's going to miserable for you after practice for awhile.
Personally, I wanted to nip it all in the bud by saying that if you missed more than one practice in a week, that you weren't ready for the game. A stretch, I know, but it would've gone a long way towards thinning out the fakers.
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Post by fort on May 4, 2007 18:35:55 GMT -6
Yeah, I think you definitely went about it the right way. What kind of rule is that (having to play them)? That's crazy. That's almost promoting the faking.
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Post by phantom on May 4, 2007 18:38:21 GMT -6
Concussions have become an issue in this area over the past few years. Now bear in mind that it really has nothing to do with actual concussions and more to do with lawsuites. Here's the situation; every year now, we do a big presentation with the parents dealing with signs and symptoms of concussions. We hand out packets and discuss the issue for about an hour. It's really a very good thing to do in terms of safety and liability, but it has come back to bite us in the butt. Here's the problem; now that we have given the kids and parents this huge list of symptoms, we've had more and more kids claming to have concussions. A lot of the synptoms of a concussion are the same as dehydration; headache, nausea, dizziness, etc... Two years ago, we had a dozen kids out of the freshman squad 2-a-days with concussions diagnosed by the athletic trainer. We had a nice little witch hunt going until we actually sat down and talked to the trainer. He said not to worry about it that the kids weren't really all that hurt. He said that most of them were fine, but because of the symptoms they were describing, he had to call it a concussion. But, because you can't really test for minor concussion (unless some real obvious signs are there; ie knocked out) his hands were totally tied by the school district. It became a real issue; we had some very good athletes out of practice because their parents had them convinced they had a concussion. We also had a lot of kids just pulling the symptoms out of their butts because they didn't want to practice. Either way, we were told by the administration that if the kids had 2 practices in during the week we had to play them. So, essentially, we had all of these kids with "concussions", missing practices, but we still had to play them. You could always pick out the fakers because they'd miss Tuesday and Wednesday, our toughest practices. I finally got {censored} off and sat the fakers our for an entire game. I ended up getting in trouble for it. What would you guys have done?? Turn it around on them. A real concussion takes longer than two days to heal. If a player has a concussion he should not play in the next game unless cleared by a doctor.
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Post by jjkuenzel on May 4, 2007 18:41:43 GMT -6
I would tell the kids that you take concussions very seriously and that if they have a concussion, they aren't practicing or playing for at least 2 weeks. Tell them that you don't want to mess around with anyone's health, which I assume is true anyways.
This will have a two fold effect. First it will show that you really are concerned about their overall well being and you don't want to rush anyone back onto the field too soon. Secondly, kids won't run to the trainer every time they get their bell rung. There is a distinct difference between getting ones bell rung and having ones brain rattle around in ones skull. The former is a part of football, the latter is a very serious issue.
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Post by coachcb on May 4, 2007 18:41:49 GMT -6
Good point phantom; one that I tried to make with the administration.
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Post by phantom on May 4, 2007 18:44:31 GMT -6
Good point phantom; one that I tried to make with the administration. Forget conventional weapons. With admins bring out the nukes. Hit them with the magic word- lawsuit.
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Shotgun1
Sophomore Member
It is better to die trying than to quit...
Posts: 214
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Post by Shotgun1 on May 4, 2007 19:12:13 GMT -6
Any kid that is diagnosed with a concussion in our district has a mandatory 7 days rest or has to have a note cleared by a doctor in order to play. The kids all know this and no longer complain about it to just get out of practice. If a kid truely has the signs/symptoms of a concussion he will definately speak up or it will be noticed by a coach. The fakers have definitely stopped complaining just to sit out because they will miss a game.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 4, 2007 20:21:25 GMT -6
A buddy of mine did his Masters thesis on concussions (and if cardiovascular fitness levels affect recovery).
VERY VERY VERY scary data. He had over 250 kids in his sample size, had all of them establish baseline data using the NFL's memory diagnostic..etc.
His research showed strong correlation between physicality of practice throught season and likelyhood of concussions in games (ie, teams that still hit after week 6 or 7 had a much greater concussion rate during games)
Also showed that 30-35% of concussions went undiagnosed....thats 1/3 of all extremely dangerous brain injuries were UNDETECTED using the standard diagnosis methods.
Showed that on avg it took the kids between 12-15 days to return their scores to their pre concussed baseline levels....
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Post by coachcb on May 5, 2007 8:34:27 GMT -6
Good point phantom; one that I tried to make with the administration. Forget conventional weapons. With admins bring out the nukes. Hit them with the magic word- lawsuit. In retrospect, that's exactly what I should've done. The whole thing would not have been an issue had I not been forced to play the kids. I am always curious as to what other coaches would've done. This last season, I had a couple 6th graders who said they had concussions, I sat them out for a full seven days. They missed a game, but they were safe and that's what counts.
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Post by touchdowng on May 5, 2007 19:36:04 GMT -6
getting back to cb's questions....
what would I do?
tell the admin to sign off on an indemnity that will hold you with zero responsibility if any of those kids do sustain a worse injury that is related to the concussion. If they are calling the shots, they need to take on the liability.
if the kids are truly faking (99% chance they are), then you are no longer the head coach when it comes to running one of the nuts and bolts of the program (Playing time).
I would probably find a new place to coach. One that is top down on issues that are not within your scope whatever those may be. But playing time is on the coach. Period.
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