brutis
Freshmen Member
Posts: 21
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Post by brutis on Dec 14, 2006 9:45:19 GMT -6
As an aspiring OC, I have a couple of questions for you experienced playcallers....
1 - how detailed do you break down your play call sheet in regards to down and distance? (1st, 2nd s/m/l, 3rd s/m/l, 4th s/m/l)
2 - What process do you go thru to decide what plays fit where...in other words, what make a 2nd and 5 a 2nd and 5 play? does that make sense? is it philosophy? if so, what are your opinions as to where to call your plays....I understand that every now and then there is a "gut" feeling you go with, but I couldn't imagine you having one for every play of the game..
thanks in advence for your response....
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Post by coachbw on Dec 14, 2006 10:00:42 GMT -6
I would say that 80% of my playcalls are just by guy or feel.
What I do for a playcard is put list the plays and what formations I like them out of. For example. Under Iso, I may put, Slot=Iso Weak, Pro=Iso Strong, Tite=Iso Field. Then when I have the gut feel that I want to run Iso, I will call one of those knowing that we should get a defensive look that we like and have practiced agaist.
As far as down and distance stuff on my card, that is almost all based off of defensive tendencies, so what makes a screen a 3rd down play, or a 1st down play is just based off of when the defense shows a certain look that we feel screen (or whatever) will work against.
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Post by brophy on Dec 14, 2006 10:15:21 GMT -6
#1 - prepare throughouly before the game. know what you want to accomplish in the 1st half.
#2 - have a plan for the good and the bad. What are the things your opponent has done previously and why were they successful / not successful.
#3 - bottom line - what coverage does the opponent play well / does not play well (figure out how to get them out of their favorite / best coverage).
#4 - on game night FIND OUT WHO IS MAKING THE TACKLES....that will tell you where the holes are at in your offense / who is not doing their job on offense.
#5 - if it itches......scratch it.
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Post by coachnorm on Dec 14, 2006 10:17:02 GMT -6
I agree with Coachbw in that down and distance is formulated from the scouting report and tendencies but a lot of it is also experience and confidence. You just have more confidence in some plays than others because experience has taught you that they work in certain situations.
You can't give yourself experience but you can gain it, at least a little by studying a load of film and noting what plays get called in what situations.
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Post by spreadattack on Dec 14, 2006 10:21:19 GMT -6
I agree with what has been said above. Play-calling is more art than science, but I will say one of the biggest reasons you prepare is to inform your "gut." I was around a very good OC who was not consistent w/ his preparation. The games he did not prepare as well for he tended to fall back on just a few things he always relied upon, and we suffered. In the games where he was very prepared, it wasn't that he had it written on his card, but he knew what was going on to such an Nth degree, that when a situation presented itself, he immediately knew both off the top of his head and by gut what the correct call was.
As a corrollary, I find if you don't prepare as well for the game you tend to not actually call what you practiced this week, and instead just call a few of your old standbys.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Dec 14, 2006 10:41:50 GMT -6
brutis (and I'm assuming here that you are an honorible man): ;D While I agree with the gut feeling comments above, I am a BIG believer in unclinching as many sphincters as possible pre-game to allow me to focus my squeezage on the most vital ones... Walsh and Billick always made the most sense to me with their philosophy of planning things out in the calm of the office rather than going all reactive in the heat of the moment. For this reason, I highly recommend you pick up a cheap copy of this little gem and highlight the heck out of it: www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=Billick&y=14&tn=Game+Plan&x=35
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Post by ccscoach on Dec 14, 2006 11:15:17 GMT -6
What we do is use a tool box approach I got this from Kevin Donnelly when he was at Georgetown College(KY) what we do is before the season starts we put every defense we will see on paper and then decide what part of the defense is weakest and what are strengths are then we attack these weak parts......Then during the season we don't so much scout defensive alginment but more so there players and decide were we think we can get are mismatches...Our motto is don't bring a screw driver to do a hammers job.....example would be if we are getting a lot of 5-2 double eagle and they are cover 2 are toolbox says that we should run option, now there $ is a stud and he is flying in the box then we play pass or crack him make some type of adjustment....IDK if this is what you are looking for but are game plans are thought out in December and then we go based on match ups.......as far as a card we have that is divided into Runs, Passes, and Specials we then go from there......Now you are thinking what if you get sometype of exotic defense we don't we limit what they do by A) running option and B) going into hurry up.....Like i said its might not be the right way but its our way
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Post by spreadattack on Dec 14, 2006 13:05:43 GMT -6
What we do is use a tool box approach I got this from Kevin Donnelly when he was at Georgetown College(KY) what we do is before the season starts we put every defense we will see on paper and then decide what part of the defense is weakest and what are strengths are then we attack these weak parts......Then during the season we don't so much scout defensive alginment but more so there players and decide were we think we can get are mismatches...Our motto is don't bring a screw driver to do a hammers job.....example would be if we are getting a lot of 5-2 double eagle and they are cover 2 are toolbox says that we should run option, now there $ is a stud and he is flying in the box then we play pass or crack him make some type of adjustment....IDK if this is what you are looking for but are game plans are thought out in December and then we go based on match ups.......as far as a card we have that is divided into Runs, Passes, and Specials we then go from there......Now you are thinking what if you get sometype of exotic defense we don't we limit what they do by A) running option and B) going into hurry up.....Like i said its might not be the right way but its our way A bit dense to read but quite helpful! I also second the Billick book. I pretty much use that as a template. Last, one thing I've always found helpful is to work as a staff on certain things but then let your different positions coaches come up with their own versions of the script and gameplan, and then bring them together. Now egos can get in the way of this sometimes, but if a play recurs quite a bit in the script or in a situation, it is probably going in the plan. It gets everyone thinking and involved, and also keeps fresh ideas going. The ultimate decision will of course be up to the HC/OC. In the past I've asked the QB for a list of plays (particularly passes) that we'd practiced that week that he's comfortable with for (a) openers, (b) key situations, like 3rd and 5-7, red zone, etc). Forget where I got that idea from, but I remember reading a Norm Chow clinic where he recounted an interaction he had with an NFL coach back when Norm was at BYU. The NFL coach asked him how many passes his QB was comfortable with on 3rd and 5. Norm said, "I don't know, five or six?" (which actually made me cough, because I would've thouht Norm Chow would say his whole passing game). Norm then asked the NFL coach the same thing, and he said, "Two." I always think about that story when I'm drawing up something fancy for a QB, that I need to remember that NFL QBs are really only comfortable throwing a couple different passes in a given situation, so you've got to find what they like and feel good doing and emphasize that, and just asking them is a good way to do it.
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Post by spartancoach on Dec 14, 2006 15:12:36 GMT -6
Agree that it is based on the defense you will be seeing, including fronts, coverages, tendencies and personnel. But most importantly, keep it simple enough to use. I have on the front of my game plan that game's down & distance chart broken into the following categories: 1st&10; (I treat 1st&5 the same as second and short); 2nd&+7; 2nd&4-7; 2nd&-4; 3rd&+7; 3rd&3-7; 3rd&-3; Inside the +5; Inside the -5; 2 pt. conversion; gadget plays; Cover 2 pattern combos; Cover 3 pattern combos; and man beater. I try to keep only 3-4 runs and 3-4 passes in each category. On the back, I have a 2 lists of plays that I think will work if they make what I think are the 2 most likely adjustments to our game plan (for example, changing the fronts or coverages, or blitzing). Also on the back, I have a list of our entire offensive menu in case they adjust in a way I hadn't anticipated.
Hope this helps.
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Post by tog on Dec 14, 2006 15:32:06 GMT -6
as far as call sheets go, here is half of mine the main thing is like brophy said the preperation needs to come before the game, during the game it happens too fast to sit up there and just guess THE SCIENCE PART take your time to think earlier, use that time to think like a robot would, get all the techinical stuff out of the way, all the ins and outs, all the DATA, all the fronts and issues, and your answers to those issues ready then come game time it becomes THE ART just watching the whole structure of the defense (if you have others to watch specific parts for you) and then going with the flow some of the art becomes-----are you schizophrenic enough to keep people on defense from zeroing in on you it b
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 14, 2006 16:27:20 GMT -6
know what defenses will play vs certain formations
call plays based on those defenses from those formations
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Dec 14, 2006 16:28:18 GMT -6
Before the game- I tend to go in with a pretty detailed outlook of what I think will work. I update these every single game. We usually drill those plays extra during the week. I don't like to make a lot of changes before a game. I think that we have to stay within ourselves. I normally look at the fronts and see their coverage, blitzes, etc. and see what we can run against those. Like everyone else has said, you have to prepare a ton before the game.
During the game- I usually script 10 plays. Different looks, different plays. See how they adjust and see if our hunches were right. I tend to leave the script pretty early most times. Usually, I can get a good feel early in the game and call from there. I have only made my way straight through a script twice and we lost both times (although I believe we played much closer, than we would have without it).
There are so many intricacies to playcalling. You have so many situations that you just have to react to and call it with your "gut." Preparation will help make that gut call a lot easier and quicker.
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Post by coachmacplains on Dec 14, 2006 17:54:09 GMT -6
I have been on again off again with this, but when I feel I can do it justice time-wise, I script the first 15 plays of the game, adjustable to situation. In knowing basically what the opponent is giving us, I want to dictate our game plan to him, not the other way around, and I want to set up certain things with our bread and butter. Now, there are coaches out there good at shooting from the hip and remembering things on spur of the moment, but in the heat of the battle I don't always think those things through. If the basic game plan can be executed in the first few series, then making game adjustments is easier as the game progresses. The only times we would go off script is, again, situational - for example, we break a big gainer to their 4 yard line on the first play from scrimmage, then my second down play action pass off veer option may not be the best choice. Otherwise, when its scripted it happens, for better or worse.
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Post by blb on Dec 14, 2006 18:06:40 GMT -6
Wow, tog - I am (sincerely!) impressed. And from what I have read from coachhuey's posts on offensive football on this board, I suspect he's pretty similar in terms of preparation, game planning, and calling the game.
I am glad I don't have to prepare for or play either of you - although the guys we compete against aren't exactly slouches, either!
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Post by oguru on Dec 14, 2006 23:54:02 GMT -6
We ue a scrpt asimiliar to Tog's. Veyr detailed.We normaly list any new formatiosn, and plays in our first 15. Sow e can see what the defense does against them. This way we know as a staff whether to scarp them if it's not what we wanted or to keep it if what they agve us is what we wanted.
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Post by gldnglv165 on Dec 15, 2006 2:21:08 GMT -6
I started out scripting the first 10 plays of the game and mixing up formations, motions, etc. to see how the defense reacted. I didn't get any information from my assistant up in the box other than, "that play won't work" "don't pass the ball to him anymore" "don't let him run the ball any more", etc. So I basically stuck with this format.......option, option, option, pass. (Repeat over and over)
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Post by lochness on Dec 15, 2006 5:35:10 GMT -6
So much goes into designing a game plan and executing it on game day. It all obviously starts with studying as much film as possible and scouting. We have all the Landro stuff and the Digital Scout stuff, but to be honest, even as a relatively young OC, I don't find any of that useful. What we do is this:
RUN GAME:
Our Legal-sized sheet has 2 sides. On the first side, I have a hole-hit chart for our base run plays, sectioned by series (ie: Belly Series, Lead Series, etc.). We spend a LOT of time determining what formations and motions are best to run out base plays out of. We don't have a ton of plays, but we are very multiple, and we try to figure week-to-week which formations give us the best advantage in the run game.
On the back, we have all of our little boxes, which pretty much separate the menu of plays on the front into situational categories. We have boxes for goal line, we may have a box for a specific series of plays we want to set up from the same formation, we'll have a box with plays that exploit our best runner, if we know they run a very different front from their base D from time to time, we'll have a box of run plays to call against that look, we'll have a box of misdirection plays...you get the idea. For down-and-distance, we only look at 3rd down. We look at 3rd and short, 3rd and med, and 3rd and long. I used to put all the situations on there, but it really was useless and I never looked at it.
PASS GAME:
On the front, under the hole hit chart, we have our passes broken down into boxes for playaction, quicks, dropbacks, and rollouts / waggles / boots. We do the same thing here as in the running game, listing all of our base plays out of the 1 or 2 formations we feel are best this week. We then have similar (although fewer) boxes on the back side to talk about situations.
Then, in general, we have a box for 2 min offense, 4 min offense, 2 pt conversions, and my scripted first 10 plays. We do exactly what these other coaches say about the scripted plays. We script them out, usually with very specific formations and motions to determine what the defense is trying to show. We'll stick to the script as long as the situation allows for it.
That's pretty much it. 80% of what I call is gut.
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Post by coachveer on Dec 15, 2006 6:26:35 GMT -6
You might also want to add a small list of plays that specifically attack the defense's worst player. If a corner can't tackle then a stop or hitch route might not be a bad idea when it's 3 and 6.
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Post by blb on Dec 15, 2006 7:29:20 GMT -6
Coach Yeoman said time after time that their (Houston's) game plan was built on finding one guy on the defense - DT, DE or LB as knighter said, or maybe a DB a la coachveer - that they could beat and work on him.
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Post by tog on Dec 15, 2006 9:58:37 GMT -6
here is the whole thing front side left side of sheet----legal size this is our on track sheet, with down and distance, and it also has shots and tricks, and screens this is the right side of the front page----this is the side I use the most, as I see the formation and how they are adjusting, I know the stuff within the formation i want to here is the back backside left side---- attacks and situations page----when we are being attacked in certain ways, I want an easy-- oh yeah, that is what we said we were going to do on sunday backside right side======just your basic info you might need during the game, some space to draw on basic sets, depth chart etc,,,,,, all in all, it boils down to, you better know your offense and have spent a ton of time working on it, doing it against every front, covg, blitz you can think of and know your terminology inside out then, you can just [glow=red,2,300]see[/glow] what to call some of this stuff I stole from pegleg's awesome call sheet available on this board i just used excel i would suggest starting from scratch and putting what you need on there
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Post by los on Dec 15, 2006 10:49:27 GMT -6
Dang Tog, my head hurts just looking at all that lol! Generally speaking, I'm with the take what the defense gives you, or exploit mismatches you've found by scouting or by probing the defense early in the game and really "know" your own offense. What do you expect from the play you call? Is it designed to gain 3-4 yds normally or have "big play" potential? What are my "go to" plays, that the players can execute properly "most" of the time? Something else that comes into play, are what risks are you prepared to take? 2nd and 5, to use your example, do you try for the 3-4 yds leaving a 3rd and very short, or use this as a opportunity to go for the "homerun", risking a 3rd and 5? Just some stuff to think about, los!
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Post by tog on Dec 15, 2006 11:04:58 GMT -6
Dang Tog, my head hurts just looking at all that lol! Generally speaking, I'm with the take what the defense gives you, or exploit mismatches you've found by scouting or by probing the defense early in the game and really "know" your own offense. What do you expect from the play you call? Is it designed to gain 3-4 yds normally or have "big play" potential? What are my "go to" plays, that the players can execute properly "most" of the time? Something else that comes into play, are what risks are you prepared to take? 2nd and 5, to use your example, do you try for the 3-4 yds leaving a 3rd and very short, or use this as a opportunity to go for the "homerun", risking a 3rd and 5? Just some stuff to think about, los! most of that stuff is gut sometimes i like to just be random and go off the on track sheet most of the gut calls come off the formation page the "oh crap, what are they doing to us" and what did we want to do against that calls are on the attack situations page the attack situation page has on there, long yardage winning, and long yardage losing calls ---the on track page has a lot of input from the HC who i sit down with and discuss the amount of risk in each situation he is thinking of based on tons of things then, during the game, 90% of it can be thrown out the window, but it is nice to have it there when you are stuck or want to just trust the hard work you did on the weekend it is a tool
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Post by los on Dec 15, 2006 11:22:32 GMT -6
Nice job explaining that Togster, comprendo! But it was close, lol, nearly had a brain overload!
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Post by pegleg on Jan 7, 2007 12:06:55 GMT -6
yeah that stuff looks kinda familiar tog. thanks for he props, but as alex gibbs would say - i stole everything from someone. thats what this board is for, stealing......uh i mean sharing........ideas.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Jan 8, 2007 5:06:49 GMT -6
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