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Post by stud17 on Feb 24, 2007 23:38:06 GMT -6
With the shotgun spread offense so popular these days, do you think it would be difficult to get a college head coaching job if you tell the hiring group (AD, administration, etc.) that you plan on running a power running offense (wishbone, flexbone, double dive, option)? Would the college like to run the "new and exciting" shotgun spread offense or the "old and boring" power offense? So basically, if I went in wanting to run double dive against a coach who wants to run a shotgun spread offense, would I have a disadvantage because of my choice of offense?
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Post by saintrad on Feb 25, 2007 0:13:48 GMT -6
track record (i.e. success on the field) and your philospohy count more than X's and O's
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Post by stud17 on Feb 25, 2007 0:34:28 GMT -6
Philosophy as in belief in academics, discipline, and things like that?
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Post by CVBears on Feb 25, 2007 12:36:29 GMT -6
Philosophy as in belief in academics, discipline, and things like that? I would say "all of the above" and then add in coaching philosophy (all aspects of).
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Post by phantom on Feb 25, 2007 13:09:06 GMT -6
With the shotgun spread offense so popular these days, do you think it would be difficult to get a college head coaching job if you tell the hiring group (AD, administration, etc.) that you plan on running a power running offense (wishbone, flexbone, double dive, option)? Would the college like to run the "new and exciting" shotgun spread offense or the "old and boring" power offense? So basically, if I went in wanting to run double dive against a coach who wants to run a shotgun spread offense, would I have a disadvantage because of my choice of offense? Depends on the level. Below 1AA, no problem. At some 1AAs and definitely at almost all 1As, putting butts in seats and keeping the boosters happy counts as much as winning.
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Post by fbdoc on Feb 25, 2007 13:19:40 GMT -6
I can't speak for the big boys because I've never been there, but your previous success is (most of the time) going to be a huge factor in the hiring process. If you've been a winner with the power game you would probably be asked about how your offense would succeed at the college level. Utilizing the hand that you've been dealt - taking over a college - might factor into the decision you make regarding offensive scheme.
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Post by oguru on Feb 25, 2007 13:20:02 GMT -6
Also the shotgun spread offense can be a power run game. We run the shotgun spread and run power/ track plays off of it. Like Urban Meyer said The wishbone is a great offense and if I could I would run it. However administrators especially ones that don't know anything about footballw ant to here one thing your going to win and put peoples butts in the stands.
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Post by stud17 on Feb 25, 2007 15:07:06 GMT -6
Do you think the administration hires coaches based on the offense or defense a coach wants to run, instead of more important factors?
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 25, 2007 15:41:49 GMT -6
I can only speak from personal experience- but several years ago I was offered a job as a position coach at a small college (my alma mater). I asked about the possibility of being an offensive coordinator (mostly because of the money issue), and was told by the HC (who is a good friend, and former teammate of mine) that it wouldn't be possible since I "ran the wishbone". He told me the college president said they wanted a "wide open attack". Now we had just lead the state (class 5A; largest) in total offense for 4 of the previous 5 years (2nd the other year), had good success and I had no chance. If I would have been a spread guy, I would have had a legitimate chance (job went to a HS O-coord. who ran a spread... he did spend 2 previous years in college, which may have impacted the hire as well as I have no real college experience). Now, since the college president is a micro-manager... obviously this was not a good situation. My buddy stayed 3 years. His went 2-9, 1-10, 2-9. I can not say this is typical- but I do think this happens elsewhere (probably a lot of 2-9 places).
Now I could have coordinated anything they wanted to run on offense... but I did and do feel much more comfortable and confident in the power/option game.
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Post by dblwngr on Feb 25, 2007 16:21:21 GMT -6
Just throw your Double Wing playbook on the table and you'll be in!!!
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Post by stud17 on Feb 25, 2007 16:31:23 GMT -6
No offense to anyone but that sounds like a bunch of b.s. what that head coach did. Obviously you'd like someone who has some experience in the offense you run, but most coaches do not know one offense specifically. Yes, coaches will have more experience and knowledge in one offense, but they'll at least be familiar with others allowing them to learn an offense better. This leads to my next question, if a coach is to start out coaching high school with aspirations to become a college coach, will it matter what offense a coach runs during his high school coaching career? Say I run a wishbone for 10 years while coaching high school and than I all of a sudden wanna be head coach for a college that runs spread. As a high school coach, should I not focus in on one offense and run a variety, or focus in on one which may impact my ability to land a college coaching job?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 25, 2007 17:10:07 GMT -6
stud...last things first...in the current professional environment of coaching, someone who is a head coach in H.S. for 10 years will not have an opportunity to be a head collegiate coach at the Div 1A or 1AA levels without first spending some years coaching ( and most likely coordinating) at those levels first. So their high school system will be largely irrelevant. If you want to coach college football..if that is truly your path, then coaching H.S. will not help you much. Best bet is to be an undergrad student asst (if you aren't playing) and then find a GA job...work the phones, press the flesh, sleep little..eat less..and hope for a break.
2nd, I wouldnt call what that coach did B.S at all. First, he was protecting his job, (putting food on table for family) second, he was doing his bosses wishes. YOu have to realize that the VAST VAST VAST majority of collegiate football programs RUN IN THE RED. They are not profit centers, they are an expense...and marketing the program is very important. So perhaps the president had a good reason. And Third, he hired another candidate who very well could be considered equally if not more qualified (had previoius collegiate experience) than the noble Senator.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 26, 2007 1:37:01 GMT -6
stud and coachd... I wouldn't call what he did "b.s."...and I agree with coachd, he was a first time college HC (had been a professional coach overseas... but this was a big step for him). In all seriousness, I think he made the offer as more of a gesture (I couldn't afford a $20,000 a year loss in pay). He knows that I am pretty stubborn too and would be as much of a pain as an asset as his assistant. We are still good friends...and I do not fault him one bit. And I will agree too that marketing is very important. Still, with that on the table, people here (in Nebraska) were thrilled to have the Huskers last in passing offense, call a Pro I their "spread" set... and be a perennial top 10 team. No one cares about the artistry and complexity of the West Coast Offense if it isn't winning here. That isn't a knock on spread sets... but sometimes college presidents (or HS principals, ADs, administrators in general) get too caught up in HOW something is done rather than WHAT is actually accomplished (look at No Child Left Behind). I am no brain surgeon... and if I need brain surgery I will defer to the one I choose as a surgeon because HE has the experience and expertise, not me. This is not to say coaching is brain surgery... but it is one of a few professions (politics is another) where people who know absolutely nothing think they are experts because they've seen it on TV (and now, you almost need to watch ESPN Classic to see any 3 back offenses).
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Post by lochness on Feb 26, 2007 6:14:47 GMT -6
Coach,
To answer your original question, you should tell any interview panel that you have an offensive system and philosophy that you strongly believe in, and that you know down to the last detail. Speak to the system's ability to be flexible and multi-dimensional, but stress that your core philosophy is the power running game. Speak with passion and determination. If they are going to make a hiring decision based on what "brand" of offense you are going to run, you probably don't want to coach there anyway.
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Post by stud17 on Feb 26, 2007 10:50:33 GMT -6
Good point, I never looked at it that way. How important do you think college experience is? Do you think playing college football helps you a lot in getting a job either in high school or college?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 26, 2007 12:58:19 GMT -6
Honorable Senator...you forgot the third profession in the "everyone thinks they can do it better than the person doing it" job trifecta...OFFICIATING.
Coaching, Politics, Officiating. Three jobs that apparently you gain vast skills and knowledge of by NOT doing.
Stud... playing college helps you get a job in college immensely in that you have a connection already. If you know your stuff, and don't mind starving, you have an inside track on a GA position, which is the starting point of the college career. If you don't have that connection... well, the road gets a LOT tougher.
As for getting a high school job...it might, it might not..depends on the situations. All things being equal, if two candidates were both graduating college students, neither had coached before, both were certified in the same area...etc etc (meaning, all other things equal) than I would probably push for the kid who had played college ball. But I wouldn't necessarily take a kid who played over another candidate who has coaching experience...
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 26, 2007 13:19:59 GMT -6
Honorable Senator...you forgot the third profession in the "everyone thinks they can do it better than the person doing it" job trifecta...OFFICIATING.
Can't believe I missed that one... especially after another basketball season as AD. We never foul- our opponents always do. And they travel all the time too.... those darn refs cost us a trip to state (we lost a 64-30 heart-breaker in the district final).
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Post by airman on Feb 26, 2007 16:23:35 GMT -6
olivet college in michigan ran the t formation and had some of the greatest success it has ever had. they average 417 yds a game the second season they ran it and over 500 yds total offense.
any offense can really be a passing or running offense for the most part. look at colorado back in the early 1990s. they went from bone to a oneback zone run power offense. they had good runners in the oneback offense.
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Post by stud17 on Feb 26, 2007 16:49:04 GMT -6
I know a kid who had a double hernia during his senior year in high school (thankfully it was after the football season). He got surgery, got better, and trained over the summer and played college football the next fall. Towards the end of his first semester, his hernia started hurting again. He went back to his surgeon, and the surgeon basically said if it hurts than to quit. It still hurts him but he still works out with the team. In your opinion, should he keep playing or quit and try to become an assistant for the program? Would playing an extra year or a couple years help out more than quitting and getting a couple years of experience coaching in? What are your thoughts...
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 26, 2007 21:06:46 GMT -6
What does he want to do?
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Post by stud17 on Feb 26, 2007 21:28:43 GMT -6
well i think he wants to coach football, preferably high school at first and eventually college (and obviously teach but that has no importance in this discussion)
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 26, 2007 21:45:03 GMT -6
stud...that has a GREAT importance in this discussion.
First...as I said, if he wants to pursue a CAREER in college coaching, then highschool has little place in the discussion. That is the "fallback" (no offense to purely highschool guys, but I think all of you who have been around know what I mean. And on the bright side, it is much better paying than the VAST VAST majority of college gigs. )
If he wants to be a TEACHER...then working as a student assistant could really help him out with x's and o's, and put him in a good position to G.A and get even more experience with the x's and o's and procedures/practice organization..etc. But that is not necessary to coach high school ball. One could also argue he would put himself (i feel, short term) in a better position to GET a job teaching and coaching by just volunteer coaching at a local high school. (I do not think this would be as beneficial as student assisting or Grad Assiting in the long term towards his professional development)
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 26, 2007 21:59:47 GMT -6
stud, I both know and know of several coaches who did not play in college (Mike Leach for one didn't play, and he's a pretty big name right now)- or who were injured while playing in college and did not finish their career- and I do not think any of them were hindered by that. You can get knowledge, connections, good material, etc. in a lot of ways. I played... well because I loved playing and didn't want to be the night manager at 7-11... I made absolutely no plan re: the future while I was playing. I came back from a serious knee injury, but not because of how it would impact my future- my decision was purely based on the moment. I coached a player several years ago who fell victim to concussions. He played 1 year in college and then became a student coach. He actually coached in college for a few years after he graduated (now he is a fireman); he got a lot of good contacts by being a student "GA" type of coach (he just decided it was not for him). Right now, I could probably think of at least 5 people I know who had similar experiences... their coaching future was not affected at all. Playing certainly can not hurt (no pun intended) one's future- but at some point you have to measure risk vs. reward... I just don't think the reward is much different in this case.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 27, 2007 7:27:45 GMT -6
I agree 100% with the Senator. If he wants to be a coach, then playing will not benefit him much at all. Coaching will benefit him. However, if he wants to PLAY... well then, playing is obviously the way to go.
While plans are important, you must live in the moment some too.
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Post by robinhood on Feb 27, 2007 9:37:45 GMT -6
Charlie Wiess didn't play at ND.
If you want to coach at the college level, regardless of the division, you must have skills which show that you can RECRUIT. Its recruit or die!
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