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Post by groundchuck on Oct 18, 2005 6:33:48 GMT -6
Currently I run a "multiple I" scheme with lots of option. I have always been intrigued by the wing-t and have spent time studying it. Can option schemes like midline, and lead option, be effective in the wing-t? Do they have a place in the wing-t philosophy? Many posts on the board mention, and I agree, that wing-t and option are great for teams with lesser talent. What kind of problems would a hybrid have for the defense? What about considerations when installing it?
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Post by boblucy on Oct 24, 2005 20:50:39 GMT -6
The wing-t can work. My only issues with it are that most of the fakes are carried out 3-4 yards deep in the backfield and the QB has his back turned to the LOS much of the time  ,unless it's a fake to the fullback. Next is the situation involving so many sweeps going sideways. Yardage only happens when the football is moving forward. Then, there is the issue of the wing-t showing a strength. The Split-T and Double Wing do NOT show a strong side for the linebackers to cheat to before the snap. Getting the defense to have to play even up is a HUGE advantage for any offense... |
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Post by ogie4 on Oct 26, 2005 6:44:05 GMT -6
Currently I run a "multiple I" scheme with lots of option. I have always been intrigued by the wing-t and have spent time studying it. Can option schemes like midline, and lead option, be effective in the wing-t? Do they have a place in the wing-t philosophy? Many posts on the board mention, and I agree, that wing-t and option are great for teams with lesser talent. What kind of problems would a hybrid have for the defense? What about considerations when installing it? Depth of rb's is the primary issue, if you change depth on option plays you will give it away. Speed Option can be effective, you can run variations of speed option with the counters, use quick pitch's, motion can also be used to set up your option relationship between QB and backs with out tipping your hand by changing the depth of your backs. It could be another tool in the box from the wing-T set |
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fish
Junior Member
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Post by fish on Oct 27, 2005 18:51:20 GMT -6
you can still run inside veer and outside veer from the wing-t. midline would work also. the full back directly behind the qb is the dive back and the tb could come around in pitch relationship. no need to change depth, they are as deep off the ball as they would be in split back formation.
the real question is which one do you want to master? both the wing-t and the option require time spent working on timing of the backfield. qb's take time to get comfy reading the tackles and ends when running midline or veer. same thing with the wing-t, the footwork and all the reverse outs and fakes take time to master.
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fish
Junior Member
Posts: 485
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Post by fish on Oct 27, 2005 19:00:16 GMT -6
one other quick note would be the blocking. wing-t is more rule related and veer blocking is little more like zone-slip. i'm not a line coach, so i'll let someone more knowledgable explain.
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Post by coachdawhip on Nov 2, 2005 11:42:54 GMT -6
In the wing-t we do have rules but they are like gap-down-backer. It's about progession and steps they hit the first thing they see in those holes. Gap-down-backer, since there steps take them that way anyway they will run into someone. We run both the wing-t and the "I" wing
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Post by tog on Nov 2, 2005 12:38:54 GMT -6
explain this to me will you
gap-inside gap, like a down guy?
down-wouldn't this be the same thing as gap?
backer-which one? backside? stack?
how does this work?
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Post by hoptions on Nov 3, 2005 19:17:43 GMT -6
I would agree that both offenses are great. I have never been involved with coaching in the wing T however I am a Veer guy and always have been. I have seen wing T teams try to incorporate veer option schemes but having little success. I believe it is due to the fact that in the wing t the QB does spend all his time with his back to the LOS. What I have seen option wise that has worked for some wing T schools is the Belly option series, with mostly predetermined reads and G schemes, this allows for the QB to have the same back to the LOS principals and yet run a speed option type of play.
On the other side I have seen and done some wing T plays from our veer style offense.
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Post by boblucy on Nov 3, 2005 19:32:40 GMT -6
Defensive coodinators I know just love, love, LOVE to see wing-t coaches try to incorparate veer and triple into their base package!!!! There's nothing I'd love to see more if I was going against an offensive coodinator who thought he was a genius by thinking he could operate the triple option and wing-t at 100% efficiency!!!!!!!! You can do both, if average(or below) is your goal for execution. And to think people laughed at Vince Lombardi for running a few different plays(in the NFL world)back in the 60's and demanding TOTAL, 100% execution.
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Post by coachdawhip on Apr 26, 2006 22:09:27 GMT -6
explain this to me will you
from his inside gap to head up the man next to him, he steps there
From head up the man next to you to his gap
The LB inside of him.
He steps on this progression so we do care what you line up in, he takes a gap step it someone is there block him, if not he takes his down step if someone is there block him, if not pick up a Lb'er
You can run veer and midline with the Wing-T.
My Wing-T has:
Midline Belly (DD)
Rocket
Down
Belly
Scissors
Trap
as Base and you can add from there
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 26, 2006 22:29:18 GMT -6
Whip? Can I get film from you?
We are a wingt running team that has scored over 40+ points a game the last 6 seasons. Wondering what your midline looks like....cause we are running it as well....with tons of success....
Throw me an email if you want to exchange film.
House
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kakavian
Sophomore Member
Where's the ball, boy? Find the ball.
Posts: 175
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Post by kakavian on Apr 28, 2006 19:18:03 GMT -6
Gchuck-
I was sucessful in incorporating Option with Wing-t. We scored fairly well with our Belly Option and Power Option. Belly looks an awful lot like an outside Veer (aiming point is inside foot of the tackle) with our Back running one step to open up, and then straight until we hit the outside read point. (usually the DE)
We also ran a Power Option, which most folks would call speed option, with the FB loading up on the DE and the TE and OT doubling up on the DT. WB would screen the OLB and we option off the corner/OLB which ever came up hardest. Our Qb often could gain 5-12 yards off this play unless we were just outmatched for speed. If we saw a very good DE we would double up with WB and FB and option off the OLB. Often our RB had good success with either juking or just running over CB's.
MY last year we experimented with a Buck Option, basically running the Bucksweep back motion, but as an option. We never had time to get the timing down, so we didnt get a chance to run it in a game.
My offense though is a bit transformed...am more Option with a few Wing-T cores mixed in. Running it out of the double slot/wing look, since often have good receivers and rarely decent TE types. (I do have it in my playbook however to run it as a TE...you can check for "Free Flexbone for Youth" Playbook, its one of the older pages in the playbooks section of the board)
Hope this helps....
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Post by coachveer on Apr 29, 2006 7:19:34 GMT -6
The wing-t teams that kill us are the ones that run belly all game. Then in the 4th qt on 3 and 6 they run belly option to the short side. You want to talk about a kid going untouched.
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Post by realdawg on May 1, 2006 20:41:29 GMT -6
There is a team in our conference, who is basically wing T, but they do mix in a little veer, and ML with it, and they won the state 2AA title this past season and played for it the year before, they have been doing it for years and are one of the winningest (SP?) programs in NC, so it can be done, and can be done efficiently. Personally, I think its a great idea and it gives our DC headaches each season b/c not only does he have to be sound against belly, and buck sweep to the wing side, he also has to have enough men backside to cover, dive, QB, and pitch.
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Post by 11spinnertrap on May 4, 2006 10:01:24 GMT -6
I've never heard a DC who loved seeing the option run at him, unless he had superior athletes. That might be the case in some places, but it is hard to defend if done properly. We run the Wing-T and throw in some inside veer and midline. Now I will say we do devout time to practicing it, and not just fun it every now and then during team. We do have option periods, etc. throughout practice. We see it as a "change of pace" part of our offense. After running belly's and buck at a team, throwing option can catch many defenses off guard. We have had very effective years where we led the state in rushing, largely due to the option game, and them years where we just didn't have the right QB and had to limit it. I will say though that the years we could run the option with the Wing-T, we were much better.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on May 5, 2006 0:32:31 GMT -6
Can option schemes like midline, and lead option, be effective in the wing-t? Do they have a place in the wing-t philosophy? Chuck: Down, Belly and Trap option have been integral parts of the Wing-T attack for several decades now, complete with misdirection and play action complements. That said, I happen to believe that Jet and Rocket are better ways to get the ball outside fast, and provide misdirection at least as good as the Down and Belly series and their respective option complements do. |
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tackle
Sophomore Member
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Post by tackle on May 6, 2006 22:54:59 GMT -6
wing t has option already incorporated into the belly, down and bucksweep series. These options are all double option that attack the perimeter when outside players fold in to stop the inside plays. If you are going to add veer/ midline into your wing t offense it probably best to remove one of these series to add practice time to master the option reads needed for the triple option.
The triple option does "mesh" perfectly with the Deleware wing t theory of putting players in conflict with their assignment. Option teams like Navy and Air Force have incorporated wing t plays like Rocket sweep and belly(fb lead). You can blend these two offenses but you need the practice time to master the plays you will use on friday nights.
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,unless it's a fake to the fullback. Next is the situation involving so many sweeps going sideways. Yardage only happens when the football is moving forward. Then, there is the issue of the wing-t showing a strength. The Split-T and Double Wing do NOT show a strong side for the linebackers to cheat to before the snap. Getting the defense to have to play even up is a HUGE advantage for any offense...
