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Post by tripsclosed on Apr 20, 2023 16:26:47 GMT -6
In your experience as a HS coach, generally speaking (allowing for individual differences), how many reps does it take for a player to get to where they can competently (not necessarily excellently) execute a new assignment they have learned? Assuming an assignment that has little if any carryover with any other skills they have already previously became competent at
Then, during the season, how many reps do you think they need per week to "maintain" their competency in that assignment (or continue to improve upon it), assuming it's an assignment you carry into nearly every game?
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 20, 2023 16:50:37 GMT -6
Completely depends on the player. Some can do it without more than a couple reps. Some, it takes weeks.
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Post by sweep26 on Apr 20, 2023 21:29:36 GMT -6
I also believe that it does depend on the player...as larrymoe says. Each player's self-efficacy determines his belief/confidence in his ability to succeed in a particular situation. If he has been particularly skilled/successful in executing a specific skill or technique in the past...he probably will not require as many reps as a guy who is new to this position or assignment. If you can get your guys to perform at an unconscious level and they have no doubt about how to execute their skills/techniques, you are on the high road to success. |
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Post by coachcb on Apr 21, 2023 7:57:54 GMT -6
I'll make it more complicated: it depends on the player and the skill involved.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 21, 2023 8:05:40 GMT -6
Way too many variables to answer this well......but I'll say 100s or 1000s.
I can say that as the season wears on certain things should not have to be repped like crazy. One of the best teams i coached ended up having some very short practices late in the reg season/playoffs because we could get by running most of our plays once each direction vs garbage cans. They were automatic for them. That let us focus on some new install. I think my D coaches would tell basically the same story. That team was very experienced, had a high(er) football IQ, and took care of business in practice.
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Post by Defcord on Apr 21, 2023 8:47:57 GMT -6
I suppose this is somewhat relevant and I don't stick to it with any intention, but I heard a guy at a PD a few years back say that the goal when teaching something in class should be for them to interact with the information 6 times before assessment. I won't pretend to remember the information he used to support the claim, but it was valid enough to hold my attention.
That thought crosses my mind when I am scripting practices and I do sometimes check to see how many reps we are getting at a skill during drills, especially new skills. I do the same with team periods and opponents' plays. I don't hold it to six but I do try to keep an eye on the number of times a week we are doing certain tasks.
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Post by carookie on Apr 21, 2023 9:02:41 GMT -6
Really depends on how in depth we are describing "an assignment".
For example, man coverage on a receiver for a CB is an 'assignment', however there are several components to that assignment we instruct. We will work on teaching those components and have them work on those drills as maintenance throughout the season.
I firmly believe working on components is key to competency, excellence, and maintenance; I think too often coaches just focus on the overall 'assignment' as a whole, especially in season, and it leads to a diminished skillset. It becomes akin to the coaching version of "just hit someone".
So I think to accurately answer the question we need to establish what specifically is meant by 'assignment'.
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Post by tripsclosed on Apr 21, 2023 9:34:28 GMT -6
Really depends on how in depth we are describing "an assignment". For example, man coverage on a receiver for a CB is an 'assignment', however there are several components to that assignment we instruct. We will work on teaching those components and have them work on those drills as maintenance throughout the season. I firmly believe working on components is key to competency, excellence, and maintenance; I think too often coaches just focus on the overall 'assignment' as a whole, especially in season, and it leads to a diminished skillset. It becomes akin to the coaching version of "just hit someone". So I think to accurately answer the question we need to establish what specifically is meant by 'assignment'. What you are getting at is that we would need to break down each assignment into as many specific, individual pieces as possible and then look at reps needed for each of those pieces, correct? |
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Post by RunThePistol on Apr 21, 2023 9:54:49 GMT -6
Would any of you argue that opportunity makes a difference?
As in how fast the opportunity to play makes a difference?
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Post by tripsclosed on Apr 21, 2023 9:58:18 GMT -6
Would any of you argue that opportunity makes a difference? As in how fast the opportunity to play makes a difference? Could you explain more what you are talking about? |
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Post by RunThePistol on Apr 21, 2023 10:29:15 GMT -6
The last school I was at, if there was no opportunity to play they were not going to take the time to learn it.
So Freshman- Sophomore year for sure they were gonna play grab A!$ basically, once the opportunity to play significantly became real the players would make it more of a priority to learn.
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Post by coachks on Apr 21, 2023 10:36:16 GMT -6
Using the assumption of "little if any carryover" means something to the effect of, we are a Wing-T, gap blocking offense and you are looking at install outside zone as the only "non-gap" play
And we have to define a rep. Are we counting indy reps? Reps on bags? Bird-Dogs? Inside run drill? Vs Scout team? Only good on good?
I'm assuming we are looking at something to the effect of 3 weeks of practice before I'd run it in a game assuming:
Indy drill 1-2x per week (5 minutes each)
Run it against bags 4+ times 1-2x per week
Run it in inside 4+ times 1-2x per week
Run it against bags / air 4+ times 1-2x per week
Run it against scout 2-3 times 1-2x per week
Run it "good on good" 2+ times 1-2x per week.
So on the low end, 20 times per week for 3 weeks = 60 reps.
On the high end, 40ish reps per week for 3 weeks = 120 reps.
With all that typed out, we are looking at 75 as a base.
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Post by spartan on Apr 21, 2023 13:50:38 GMT -6
400-1000
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Post by carookie on Apr 21, 2023 18:02:38 GMT -6
Really depends on how in depth we are describing "an assignment". For example, man coverage on a receiver for a CB is an 'assignment', however there are several components to that assignment we instruct. We will work on teaching those components and have them work on those drills as maintenance throughout the season. I firmly believe working on components is key to competency, excellence, and maintenance; I think too often coaches just focus on the overall 'assignment' as a whole, especially in season, and it leads to a diminished skillset. It becomes akin to the coaching version of "just hit someone". So I think to accurately answer the question we need to establish what specifically is meant by 'assignment'. What you are getting at is that we would need to break down each assignment into as many specific, individual pieces as possible and then look at reps needed for each of those pieces, correct? Yup |
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Post by tog on Apr 21, 2023 21:46:02 GMT -6
Completely depends on the player. Some can do it without more than a couple reps. Some, it takes weeks. this as a coach you just feel it or not |
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Post by coachwoodall on Apr 22, 2023 0:05:53 GMT -6
I'm along the lines of several that it depends. To try and quantify how many practice repetitions for an high school or emerging players will by highly subjective to the athletic potential of the individual.
Maybe another approach would be in the evaluation of that skill set in a game type situation. I.E. can/does that player perform that skill set on a consistent basis when the bullets are flying.
I'm just thinking about how often I rep a focused skill in individual period, and the kid does a great job when that is all we do for 10 minutes. Then we later that day we go into a team and that kid/skill set goes to crap because of all of the other aspects of the game come into play.
Another thing that comes into play is how MANY skill sets is the player having to replicate on a consistent basis.
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Post by carookie on Apr 22, 2023 11:50:16 GMT -6
I know there has been a lot of ambiguity in my responses here, and dancing around the answer, but I’ll also add that competency is vague and not a standardized term. Excellence for one coach, may only be competence for another.
If competence means- being able to perform the physical components if a technique (at any speed or level), performing them in the correct sequence, and following the appropriate stimuli (read); then I’d say competency can be reached rather quickly.
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Post by kylem56 on Apr 22, 2023 19:22:08 GMT -6
As several others have said, it depends on the kid, the position and the assignment. To give you some subtstance to your answer, there was a study done years ago by a former coach, Larry Zierlein (forgive me if I am misspelling his last name) where he found that if you don't run a play at least 3 times a game its not worth practicing. There is only so much time in a day so you have to decide based on the kids you have, if the time is worth the investment. We have had kids who pick things up in 3 days and off we go, and we have had kids with severe cases of CRS (Can't Rememeber Sh**) and it would take them 9 weeks to remember even numbers are on the right.
Edit: I will add this. Like a teacher, find multiple ways to teach the assignment. Video, walk through, hand out, powerpoint, run through.
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Post by blb on Apr 23, 2023 7:11:04 GMT -6
we have had kids with severe cases of CRS (Can't Rememeber Sh**) and it would take them 9 weeks to remember even numbers are on the right. The joys of coaching MS-HS Football. |
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Post by kylem56 on Apr 23, 2023 10:30:55 GMT -6
we have had kids with severe cases of CRS (Can't Rememeber Sh**) and it would take them 9 weeks to remember even numbers are on the right. The joys of coaching MS-HS Football. Yup. This was high school but its kind of like when you see a baby crying in public. Its cute when it isnt your kid, otherwise all you can say is ah **** |
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Post by newhope on May 1, 2023 11:40:59 GMT -6
In your experience as a HS coach, generally speaking (allowing for individual differences), how many reps does it take for a player to get to where they can competently (not necessarily excellently) execute a new assignment they have learned? Assuming an assignment that has little if any carryover with any other skills they have already previously became competent at Then, during the season, how many reps do you think they need per week to "maintain" their competency in that assignment (or continue to improve upon it), assuming it's an assignment you carry into nearly every game? There is no correct answer. It depends on the individual, it depends on the quality of the instruction and feedback, it depends on what you are doing offensively and defensively. The bottom line is that it's probably never enough, but the key to be successful is rep, rep, rep, rep, rep and rep some more. When looking at very successful and well coached teams on film, watch to see how much every clip of the same play looks the same. I will never forget watching Furman's National Championship team from many years ago (who had a coaching staff filled with guys who went on to be head coaches at FBS schools) and you would have thought that they were just showing you the same clip over and over except that the jersey colors on defense kept changing. Every clip was exactly the same, every step exactly the same, the offensive line--coached by a much younger Robbie Caldwell--was the same on every clip. Repetition, repetition, repetition. |
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Post by coachklee on Jun 8, 2023 13:52:52 GMT -6
For 4 of our guys…100+ pre-season reps & close to 20 reps per week in season made them proficient as JV Football players. Even by week 9, our 5th guy never had enough reps!!!
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Post by tripsclosed on Jun 8, 2023 15:56:57 GMT -6
For 4 of our guys…100+ pre-season reps & close to 20 reps per week in season made them proficient as JV Football players. Even by week 9, our 5th guy never had enough reps!!! That's 100+ reps pre-season/20 reps a week for each assignment, or total reps they got across all assignments? |
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Post by coachklee on Dec 7, 2023 6:04:40 GMT -6
For 4 of our guys…100+ pre-season reps & close to 20 reps per week in season made them proficient as JV Football players. Even by week 9, our 5th guy never had enough reps!!! That's 100+ reps pre-season/20 reps a week for each assignment, or total reps they got across all assignments? I was mainly talking about the OL & for each assignment / blocking scheme. By time you add up Indy, any Half-Line & Team they are probably working our big 4 of Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Power, Counter & Half/Full Slide 20+ times each week in season. So that’s 100+ total reps per week in season with 500+ pre-season (before our 1st game week). Now I’m curious & want an exact count next year. |
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 7, 2023 8:04:26 GMT -6
That the art and science of coaching right?
EVery team is different and it is our job to try to figure that out hopefully sooner than later.
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