|
|
Post by gunandrun on Jun 9, 2006 11:16:20 GMT -6
I know many of you deal with athletic kids and see them struggle with becoming real athletes or students of the game.
Here is a situation for you. I would like to hear your feedback.
You have three very talented athletes that are planning on skipping your team camp this summer. Reasons include summer recreational legion baseball and little else. How would you respond?
Of these three athletes one was your captain last year, another very talented and young, the third is enabled and babied by his parents.
My hardest workers and I sat down to discuss the situation. There answers mirrored my own.
What do you think??
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Jun 9, 2006 11:30:02 GMT -6
YOU MOVE ON AND DONT COUNT ON THEM AS PART OF YOUR CORE, A NEW CORE, NEW LEADERS WILL EMERGE. THESE BOYS WILL FALL IN LINE OR FADE AWAY. MANY PARENTS THINK THAT ITS UNFAIR TO MAKE KIDS CHOSE. FOOTBALL IS A TEAM GAME, ULTIMATELY THEY HAVE TO LEARN TO CHOOSE "THEIR TEAM" AND NOT THEMSELVES. SURE, YOU AND I WOULD LOVE TO SIT AT HOME ON SUNDAY AND WATCH PRO FOOTBALL ALL DAY, INSTEAD ITS OFF TO BREAK DOWN FILM AND WORK ON BULLITIN BOARDS OR WHATEVER....WE ALL HAVE TO CHOOSE.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjblair on Jun 9, 2006 11:32:58 GMT -6
I would probley not allow the one to be a captian next year. I also might move them down the depth chart, and tell them the reason for this was due to the fact the other players worked hard in the summer while these players (the 3 that skipped) skipped camp.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Jun 9, 2006 11:39:40 GMT -6
TO ME, YOU FIND WAYS TO REWARD THE ATTENDANCE AND PARTICIPATION IN THE PROGRAM...MAKE IT DESIRABLE TO PARTICIPATE RATHER THAN UNDESIRABLE TO SKIP OUT. FOLLOW WHAT IM SAYING? IE, FIRST PICK OF GEAR...SLOWLY GIVE OUT GEAR OVER THE SUMMER...IE, HELMETS, JERSEYS, SHOULDER PADS ETC...SPIRIT PACK STUFF FOR CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PARTICIPATION POINTS OR WHATEVER...
|
|
|
|
Post by coachsky on Jun 9, 2006 13:21:08 GMT -6
Here's what I would do: 1. Be direct and honest with them. Talk to them and possibly their parents, clarify expectations for off-season participation. This is something every student and parent should know. Demonstrate and communicate the benefits of your off-season program and be clear and consistent on the consequences if they do make a reasonable effort to participate. 2. Set clear guidelines for participation in other sports. My belief is not to stifle or restrict kids who are missing out of season football workouts because they are playing an other sports at an advanced level. Don't turn it into a competition for athletes between sports, everyone loses. At our school we want our basketball stars and baseball stars on the football team! Most of the time they can contribute. They may not get as much time in the weight room as we'd like, however, they are competing at a high level and are committed to a team. That does carryover. 3. Celebrate and reward off season work. Fun days, T-shirts, Spirit Packs , recognition, recognition, recognition.  |
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Jun 9, 2006 13:58:10 GMT -6
Is this a team camp that you host, or at a college or other HS/other location? the only reason I ask is we go to team camp and money is sometimes an issue, but no one ever wants to admit that, so they come up with stories. We kind of have a similar thing going with one player- he has never gone out before, but could definitely help us at NT (5'10 270... good lifter in class). A few of my assistant coaches are real excited that he came to spring conditioning. He's done that before (since freshman year)... I'm not getting all giddy because though he would help us, he has not been reliable (has not shown up yet- we are in week 2). in talking with him I told him 1) we would like to have him out for football 2) he would help us, and 3) I think he would enjoy it 4) if you don't want to do the work... well maybe this is not for you and 5) this year is pretty much your last chance (he is a JR)... because we won't take a freshman with one year of eligibility left. He doesn't like to do the summer conditioning (he would rather farm... he likes the farmer pace- go slow all day, not the football pace- go hard for an hour and 20 min. I am still not sure why he can not do farm work if he comes to conditioning).  Talk to them (and/or have current team leaders talk to them), explain that they are important to the team, etc. Also explain how the team needs are what is best for the team. It would be a shame to lose them, but they have to make a decision, and your (team's) decision will be based on what they choose. The ball is entirely in their court. No Child Left Behind doesn't apply here... leave 'em behind, because you can not afford to stop. Now a lot of this depends on your policy... if missing camp is not a reason to be dismissed, they can certainly start at the bottom and work their way in to positions. For example, we have an 80% summer mark- if they meet it, no 12 min. run. if not DBs- 9 1/2 laps, LBs 8 1/2 laps and DL 7 1/2 laps (full gear- right after practice and conditioning). if you didn't make the # of laps, do it again... until you make it (we do give them 1/2 lap for each consecutive practice day they attempt it). No one plays in a varsity game unless they have finished the 12 min. run (or have bypassed it with the 80%). So based on our policy, I'd let them come out, and then would watch them run for about 2 weeks after. This does 3 things for us: 1) punishes the hell out of 'em 2) serves as a deterrent to younger guys who certainly do not ever want to have to do that and 3) lets all the guys know, that after they make it, they went through hell and have earned their way back. |
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jun 9, 2006 14:04:41 GMT -6
Tough one - a real dilemma.
In our state we cannot make summer participation mandatory (I feel to do so is a little unethical, anyway).
As football coaches, we want kids to make a commitment to our sport. Sometimes, though, we must remember (as difficult as it is) that football is not as important to everyone as it is to us.
Be careful of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you lose those three athletes by attempting to punish them somehow, you may be punishing your other players by lessening their chances for victory.
It can be hard competing with baseball and/or basketball in the summer, because they are playing games, not doing drills. This is particularly true if a kid's favorite sport is one of the others, not football.
Again, a real quandry.
|
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Jun 9, 2006 14:23:14 GMT -6
In our state we cannot make summer participation mandatory (I feel to do so is a little unethical, anyway).
We really can't either. It's semantics really- I say everyone MUST complete the 12 min. run- the 80% is their out.
It is hard sometimes competing with baseball and/or basketball in the summer, because they are playing games, not doing drills. This is particularly true if a kid's favorite sport is one of the others, not football.
One thing we do here is count games or camps (not practices) for other sports as football conditioning.
I guess that we do what we can to work with kids schedules (work, baseball, basketball, etc.), but while I do not penalize for missing camp (they could, for example be at all conditioning and on vacation during camp- so they are still over 80%), missing reps, not understanding schemes, etc. hurts them- and they have to catch up. I will play the best guy- but the best guy is not always the best athlete, best football player (nor is he always the senior).
In our case we are such a small school that our guys know going in who will be the starters. So far, they have done a great job with that- no one has taken advantage of the situation (for ex. we may have 3 fullbacks- 6' 240# SR, a 5'7 140# soph. and a 5'5 145# Fr... the senior knows the little guys won't push him... so we have to CONSTANTLY emphasize pushing yourself, so far our guys have responded well).
Now that I think about it, we have a LB who is in rodeo (which is his first love) and he is busy with that this summer. A few things we did: 1) set up make-up conditioning times for him when he leaves town 2) allow him to count competitions as 1 day of conditioning... in turn, he freed up a block of time to make it to camp.
I guess I am not very lenient when guys miss because we work with their schedules, let them set up conditioning times, and give them extra opportunities to be there (we go mornings, but have some afternoon/evening make-up days). Plus, I get the summer schedule out in April, so they know when we really need them there.
|
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Jun 9, 2006 14:32:48 GMT -6
Be careful of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you lose those three athletes by attempting to punish them somehow, you may be punishing your other players by lessening their chances for victory.
This is a great point... one that I dwell on a lot when these situations arise.
If there is any way we can change attitudes (by extra work, single game suspension, etc.) we will do it. Only when it becomes a real issue (a detriment, a potential for dissension, etc.) do we apply the following:
1. Never sacrifice the team for a player(s)
2. Never sacrifice the program for a team.
We've never really had to deal with #2.... close a few times.
(different issue)
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Jun 9, 2006 14:46:39 GMT -6
Tough one - a real dilemma. In our state we cannot make summer participation mandatory (I feel to do so is a little unethical, anyway). As football coaches, we want kids to make a commitment to our sport. Sometimes, though, we must remember (as difficult as it is) that football is not as important to everyone as it is to us. Be careful of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you lose those three athletes by attempting to punish them somehow, you may be punishing your other players by lessening their chances for victory. It can be hard competing with baseball and/or basketball in the summer, because they are playing games, not doing drills. This is particularly true if a kid's favorite sport is one of the others, not football. Again, a real quandry. 120% agreement |
|
|
|
Post by gunandrun on Jun 9, 2006 17:15:48 GMT -6
blb an brophy we are on the same page.
We use a rewards system. Earning points and testing out well gets you gear. 75 pts expected The three athletes in question are well into the 60's 20 pts each varsity school sport, other than fb, and one point each lifting day in class, before or after school.
My hard working kids really lined up with my thinking. They want what is best for the team. They just don't understand the selfish behavior.
Hopes are the three in question will understand my situation and recognize theirs, they are leaders like it or not. I hope they come to camp even if they stop by just prior to other events. When kids work hard and the leaders take the path of least resistance and do not acknowledge the hard work of others bad things could happen. I hope they understand we all want them to be the best and take the bull by the horns.
My hardest workers said "Coach how can we count on them if they do not give to the team?" One said "I would rather lose than follow someone that is not behind me 100%". I know I have backing and the three kids are going to play fb. I just hope the kids see them as members of the TEAM.
|
|
|
|
Post by gunandrun on Jun 9, 2006 17:16:47 GMT -6
blb an brophy we are on the same page.
We use a rewards system. Earning points and testing out well gets you gear. 75 pts expected The three athletes in question are well into the 60's 20 pts each varsity school sport, other than fb, and one point each lifting day in class, before or after school.
My hard working kids really lined up with my thinking. They want what is best for the team. They just don't understand the selfish behavior.
Hopes are the three in question will understand my situation and recognize theirs, they are leaders like it or not. I hope they come to camp even if they stop by just prior to other events. When kids work hard and the leaders take the path of least resistance and do not acknowledge the hard work of others bad things could happen. I hope they understand we all want them to be the best and take the bull by the horns.
My hardest workers said "Coach how can we count on them if they do not give to the team?" One said "I would rather lose than follow someone that is not behind me 100%". I know I have backing and the three kids are going to play fb. I just hope the kids see them as members of the TEAM.
|
|
