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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2022 11:39:40 GMT -6
I don't know whether to put this in offense or defense, so I just put it here....
Am breaking down opponents fil for next week, and have come across multiple plays where they pull a lineman from the left side, and a lineman from the right side, and pull them towards each other.
It has happened enough to where I don't think this is a mistake. Sometimes they go past each other, sometimes one will turn and lead up inside the a/b gap, every time I am confused. Is this a thing now? What do ya'll call this?
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Post by Defcord on Sept 24, 2022 11:44:19 GMT -6
Are they running the ball behind it?
Are they having any success with it?
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2022 11:47:09 GMT -6
Are they running the ball behind it? Are they having any success with it? Yes No |
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 24, 2022 12:39:50 GMT -6
I don't know whether to put this in offense or defense, so I just put it here.... Am breaking down opponents fil for next week, and have come across multiple plays where they pull a lineman from the left side, and a lineman from the right side, and pull them towards each other. It has happened enough to where I don't think this is a mistake. Sometimes they go past each other, sometimes one will turn and lead up inside the a/b gap, every time I am confused. Is this a thing now? What do ya'll call this? Which linemen are pulling? G's...T's...TE's...combinations? Is this pass pro? Never heard of such a thing. |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 24, 2022 12:42:00 GMT -6
Are they running the ball behind it? Are they having any success with it? Yes No I’d still chalk it up to a mistake unless you know they are traditionally well coached on the offensive line. Maybe they are just that bad. I’ve never seen both guards pull inside/behind the center on purpose. What front is it against? What does it look like they are trying to accomplish with each puller? |
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2022 12:48:48 GMT -6
I don't know whether to put this in offense or defense, so I just put it here.... Am breaking down opponents fil for next week, and have come across multiple plays where they pull a lineman from the left side, and a lineman from the right side, and pull them towards each other. It has happened enough to where I don't think this is a mistake. Sometimes they go past each other, sometimes one will turn and lead up inside the a/b gap, every time I am confused. Is this a thing now? What do ya'll call this? Which linemen are pulling? G's...T's...TE's...combinations? Is this pass pro? Never heard of such a thing. One side guard, opposite side T or TE or Wing. Happened once on pass pro, multiple times on inside run |
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2022 12:51:57 GMT -6
I’d still chalk it up to a mistake unless you know they are traditionally well coached on the offensive line. Maybe they are just that bad. I’ve never seen both guards pull inside/behind the center on purpose. What front is it against? What does it look like they are trying to accomplish with each puller? Fronts vary, but films i have are mostly against odd fronts. They run a lot of trap, and pull a lot during play action, often times the puller never makes a meaningful block within a normal play, the same takes place when opposite guys pull. They seem to be looking for first enemy color, but sometimes turn and lead up |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Sept 24, 2022 14:19:06 GMT -6
We're a Stack Defense and our first opponent of the year did this. Pulled opposite side tackles on a QB Read, Bash type of play. Definitely was intentional.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 24, 2022 14:44:33 GMT -6
You're probably seeing fold blocks by the T or TE on both sides, and they may be doing this automatically against certain fronts.
There's also a blocking scheme that's considered an alternative to wedge, wherein outside blockers fold together from opposite sides thru a central hole. Sometimes called "blast".
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Post by dubber on Sept 25, 2022 6:12:40 GMT -6
They are confused…..I would not plan for it
My guess is there is one of them mixing up right and left in the play call
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 25, 2022 9:36:19 GMT -6
We played a team that would do this out of 10 personnel gun. Versus a 34 type defense, blocking out on the Des with the DOGs, basing the OC on the NG, then pulling the OTs up inside to the ILBs. We called it a Barney block, and no I don't know why we called it that.
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Post by teachcoach on Sept 27, 2022 14:09:20 GMT -6
Fold block against and odd front?
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Post by coachcb on Sept 27, 2022 14:46:32 GMT -6
I've been in one program that ran a Counter Boot this way. Effective play when run correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2022 17:45:25 GMT -6
I don't know whether to put this in offense or defense, so I just put it here.... Am breaking down opponents fil for next week, and have come across multiple plays where they pull a lineman from the left side, and a lineman from the right side, and pull them towards each other. It has happened enough to where I don't think this is a mistake. Sometimes they go past each other, sometimes one will turn and lead up inside the a/b gap, every time I am confused. Is this a thing now? What do ya'll call this? Wait… is this an odd front thing where they’re folding the Ts while the G’s base out on DEs and the C bases the nose? I’ve heard it called “double gut” and worked for a guy who was really high on it, but it wasn’t my personal cup of tea. Years ago I remember some teams were running this as an inside zone adjustment against odd fronts, too. Is this what they are doing? I was originally picturing both Gs crossing the C (and each other) to get to the other side. I’ve heard of Wing-T teams doing that as a way to see if LBs are keying the Gs, but I’ve never actually seen it done or even saw it in Wing-T materials. Is that it? If it’s something else, I’m stumped. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 27, 2022 21:17:28 GMT -6
I don't know whether to put this in offense or defense, so I just put it here.... Am breaking down opponents fil for next week, and have come across multiple plays where they pull a lineman from the left side, and a lineman from the right side, and pull them towards each other. It has happened enough to where I don't think this is a mistake. Sometimes they go past each other, sometimes one will turn and lead up inside the a/b gap, every time I am confused. Is this a thing now? What do ya'll call this? Wait… is this an odd front thing where they’re folding the Ts while the G’s base out on DEs and the C bases the nose? I’ve heard it called “double gut” and worked for a guy who was really high on it, but it wasn’t my personal cup of tea. Years ago I remember some teams were running this as an inside zone adjustment against odd fronts, too. Is this what they are doing? I was originally picturing both Gs crossing the C (and each other) to get to the other side. I’ve heard of Wing-T teams doing that as a way to see if LBs are keying the Gs, but I’ve never actually seen it done or even saw it in Wing-T materials. Is that it? If it’s something else, I’m stumped. The best way to describe it is Right Guard (though it can be the Left, I am just writing Right to give an example) pulls and wraps around the center and leads up the hole (A or B gap depending on whats open). The TE to the Left Side (can be other OL but this was most often) pulls across the formation and kicks out the end on the right side. The running back's initial track is the A-B gap on the left side, but seems to just read and run to daylight |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2022 9:11:29 GMT -6
Wait… is this an odd front thing where they’re folding the Ts while the G’s base out on DEs and the C bases the nose? I’ve heard it called “double gut” and worked for a guy who was really high on it, but it wasn’t my personal cup of tea. Years ago I remember some teams were running this as an inside zone adjustment against odd fronts, too. Is this what they are doing? I was originally picturing both Gs crossing the C (and each other) to get to the other side. I’ve heard of Wing-T teams doing that as a way to see if LBs are keying the Gs, but I’ve never actually seen it done or even saw it in Wing-T materials. Is that it? If it’s something else, I’m stumped. The best way to describe it is Right Guard (though it can be the Left, I am just writing Right to give an example) pulls and wraps around the center and leads up the hole (A or B gap depending on whats open). The TE to the Left Side (can be other OL but this was most often) pulls across the formation and kicks out the end on the right side. The running back's initial track is the A-B gap on the left side, but seems to just read and run to daylight It seems like they might be trying to run a hybrid version of One-Back Power or Dart with a backside puller wrapping to PSLB, and combining that with a bastardized split zone "Slice" by a puller to kick out the BSDE (like what a lot of zone teams do with an H-Back) so they don't have to read anyone (or can read BSLB for an RPO or something). It sounds like a lot of moving parts and I'm not sure how well it would time up, but I'm thinking someone decided to combine the two. The back just "reading and running to daylight" fits with that, as well. |
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Post by MICoach on Sept 28, 2022 10:51:56 GMT -6
Sounds a lot like somebody with too much time in front of a white board and an inflated sense of self.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 2, 2022 18:37:25 GMT -6
Say you're against a 3-0-3 or 4-0-4 and want to run in the middle. So have the Gs block out, the play side (or whichever side the nose is shaded toward) T cross-blocks to double team the nose, and the opposite T folds to block inside at second level. Maybe that's not pulling, but the tackles do go behind the line toward each other for a bit.
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Post by bignose on Oct 2, 2022 19:01:19 GMT -6
So it has been a couple of weeks since you broke down the video, and you've played this team. Did they do the cross pulling as you described up top?
I've seen teams very occasionally do this accidentally, and it usually results in some pretty spectacular collisions. Never seen it done intentionally.
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Post by carookie on Oct 2, 2022 19:14:49 GMT -6
So it has been a couple of weeks since you broke down the video, and you've played this team. Did they do the cross pulling as you described up top? I've seen teams very occasionally do this accidentally, and it usually results in some pretty spectacular collisions. Never seen it done intentionally. Nope, they came out throwing against us (despite being a run heavy team). Was blown away how much they deviated from their tendencies. |
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