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Post by Coach Morgan on Aug 11, 2005 8:27:17 GMT -6
Coaches - what are you philosophies on going live in practice (full speed gameplay, taking the man to the ground, etc.)?
If your game is Friday - how much full tilt hitting do you do each day? I know we've started to try to limit going full live - instead going live with shields, bags, etc.
It's always interesting to hear the coaches who go live very little in the hopes of "making them hungry" for game night and then the flip side where coaches believe you have to go live frequently to be a good blocker, tackler, etc.
Any thoughts on how you handle this?
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kakavian
Sophomore Member
Where's the ball, boy? Find the ball.
Posts: 175
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Post by kakavian on Aug 11, 2005 8:33:06 GMT -6
Max-
Am of the school of "hit often hit early" as your season starts out, choke it back some for the middle of the season, then as playoffs arrive, bring it back up a notch, but not quite to the extent of the first month.
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Post by tog on Aug 11, 2005 10:36:31 GMT -6
we go full speed every play except for the take down part of it
the defense gets enough of that work in the tackling circuits they do
we have found over the years that more kids get hurt when you are going half speed than anything because their feet are planted in the ground
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Post by jackedup on Aug 12, 2005 10:16:14 GMT -6
Tog...
I agree 100%. Tackling circuit is enough take downs.
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Post by shortyardage on Aug 28, 2005 11:05:03 GMT -6
If we have a Friday night game then Tuesday is out hardest hitting day. When we go live, that's the day we do it. We want to taper for Friday.
We have two tempo's: Thud and Live. Thud is the same as live in all aspects except we do not go to the ground. We'll go to the ground in tackling drills or a tackling circuit and practice some form or aspect of tackling every single day. We also practice pursuit every single day. We just don't go live in team every single day.
When we do run our tackling circuits, we change up the tackling drills to keep the kids interested and the drills fresh. We use a hanging bag on a track, a one man sled, blocking dummies and we have live drills. We alternate between a live drill and a drill using a sled or bag. The circuit is anywhere from four to six stations and we separate the players by position or size or experience.
We might hit live for the last ten minutes of a 20 minute team defense period on Wednesday, this is our "Tired Tackling" period(We don't tell the players this, we use this term as coaches only). We do this to create an atmosphere where we can emphasize paying attention to fundamentals of tackling in the later stages of the game when the players might be fatigued. This helps us develop the discipline needed to execute a proper tackle when the player has been playing hard for an extended period of time, exactly what we want late in the game.
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smd
Sophomore Member
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Post by smd on Aug 28, 2005 12:02:08 GMT -6
this year,when the season starts we won't go live much at all, if we do it is a quick whistle. in the past it was every Tuesday. but now, we don't have much quality depth, so we don't want to lose them in practice. i have seen and coached at some places that used this philosophy through out the head coaches tenure.
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coach16
Sophomore Member
Posts: 126
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Post by coach16 on Apr 24, 2011 19:13:10 GMT -6
I recently visited with a school that is winning or playing for a championship every year.
Their philosophy is go live every day with interior lineman in one on one, two on one, and three on two drills.
They will do these about 15min a day
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Post by John Knight on Apr 25, 2011 5:29:42 GMT -6
I firmly believe the quick whistle in practice forms bad habits.
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Post by superpower on Apr 25, 2011 6:02:14 GMT -6
We go live Tuesday and Wednesday, but, like some others here, we don't go to the ground.
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Apr 25, 2011 6:09:12 GMT -6
I have seen schools that NEVER...I repeat, NEVER go live in practice. The only time they will ever tackle a live player in practice is spring ball.
HC believes that technique (tackling circuit, etc) will form the good habits needed to be successful.
He has won a lot of football games.
I have also seen teams that barely even thud. They wear shells most days.
Different ways to skin a cat. I think you have to know the maturity, age, and depth of your team and you can make adjustments based on what they can handle.
In an ideal world, I would never hit after fall camp. I would only go full pads 1 day per week and we would hit bags and light thud every day. But some teams NEED contact. Others like the "if you dont feed the dogs all week they will be MEAN and HUNGRY on Fridays" approach.
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Post by wingt74 on Apr 25, 2011 10:50:35 GMT -6
I firmly believe the quick whistle in practice forms bad habits. I'm buying in to this too...I have always had one srim a week...usually 20 minuts on Wed night practice to rep game plans....and would go quick whistle. But now I'm thinking either scrap this part of practice, or just go all out. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 25, 2011 14:53:45 GMT -6
johnknight and wingt74, what type of bad habits do you think the quick whistle forms
I used to be in favor of the Live up front, chest up but no take down type of environment. The scary thing is though, that the research is now showing that this is where significant brain trauma is occuring. The consistent sub-concussive hits that occur in almost any full speed situation...especially as the season moves forward. Not sure what any solution would be though.
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Post by John Knight on Apr 25, 2011 18:08:10 GMT -6
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 25, 2011 18:32:25 GMT -6
We are a thud team, very rarely take to the ground, maybe just the start of spring and the start of fall. We have had some success with it and it has helped us stay healthy longer. Now I have no empirical data to back this up but we had our most successful season last year with far fewer injuries and weren't as worn down at the end of the season. When I'm an HC I believe that we will do much the same, live upfront for some sessions, thud in all other positions, but I do agree that there are some kids/teams that need more tackling then others primarily for morale reasons.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 25, 2011 18:42:25 GMT -6
For those of you that go live, are you a platoon program?
Are any of you small schools with 2 way starters that go live during the week?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 25, 2011 19:17:35 GMT -6
Kids quit early on plays when they are used to quick whistle or even thud. Ours never did. We used a double whistle for the defensive side of the ball. Nobody stopped sprinting till they heard the second whistle. Just my experience, others may vary Why? You should PM me this because it will be deleted otherwise. I agree. It is a slippery slope. Have you ever seen an RB called for a penalty when they lower/lead with their head? |
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Post by wingt74 on Apr 26, 2011 6:40:59 GMT -6
Quick whistle = muscle memory trained to let up after contact. Kids don't even know they're doing it.
Regarding brain damage. Non of us are Drs (and even the Drs are still learning) but my guess is...NFL/College, these players are so big and fast...the impacts play after play are WAY more violent than anything we produce in high school.
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Post by John Knight on Apr 26, 2011 6:42:49 GMT -6
and there are certain kids that hit with their head a lot more, you know the helmet scrapers.
I think they may be doing some damage but I was one of those and I seem fine, most days.
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Post by John Knight on Apr 27, 2011 8:44:06 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Apr 27, 2011 8:58:12 GMT -6
we have found over the years that more kids get hurt when you are going half speed than anything because their feet are planted in the ground I agree with that. For that reason we also never practice in "uppers" (no lower pads, just helmet and shoulder pads). We're always either in full pads or shorts. |
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Post by tango on Apr 27, 2011 8:59:07 GMT -6
I think it changes every year on how much hitting you should do. I have coached really strong teams and if we hit you are going to have injuries and I have coach weak teams that needed to hit a lot.
Option teams always talk about going live, even the QB. I have been to GT and Ga Southern the last two years and they do go live a lot but both starting QB's had on red jerseys and didn't go live.
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Post by fantom on Apr 27, 2011 9:05:59 GMT -6
We go "live" in Inside Drill, 7-on-7, and Team every day that we're in full pads. For us that's usually Tuesday and Wednesday. We use the same restrictions that many have mentioned: no low tackling; no "kill shots" (2nd or 3rd guy in taking a gratuitous-but legal- hit on a stopped ballcarrier; no taking to the ground; quick whistle.
I don't believe in the muscle memory argument. I've seen too many good teams that quick-whistle or even never practice in pads for me to believe that full tackling in practice is necessary.
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Post by coachdennis on Apr 27, 2011 11:27:47 GMT -6
I think the younger they are, the more "live" work you need to teach them how to play. (I am talking Pop Warner type of age.) As they get into Senior High School, now you can think about ratcheting down your live work as the season wears on.
At all ages, though, you have to stay at the tackling circuits - the day you stop teaching that, their tackling form very quickly starts to deteriorate. Tackling the right way is hard work, and left on their own kids will revert to their bad old habits in a hurry, even late in the season.
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Post by shamespiral on Apr 27, 2011 15:07:57 GMT -6
Full pads for Spring Ball and Fall Camp... After that we wear shoulder pads and shorts two days a week and then shorts and helmets on Wednesday and Thursday.
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Post by thegloved1 on Apr 27, 2011 15:50:54 GMT -6
Not too sure how the H.S. I will be coaching at this upcoming season does it, but back in the perverbial day when I played H.S. ball (mid-80's), Monday was review game film of the team we would play the upcoming Friday and walk thoughs, then Tues & Wed were full speed and Thurs were helmet & shoulder pads with thud contact. Seemed to work out very well.
EDIT: Also, Sat mornings we'd watch our film as a team from the night before.
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Post by coachjuice on Apr 29, 2011 8:16:20 GMT -6
We are a Flexbone triple Option team. We struggle with numbers ever year and our kids begin playing football when the get to HS. We have a terrible feeder system. If we do not cut in practice we will not cut in games, if we do cut in practice we risk the kids getting hurt. We try and use bags as often as possible and just work technique. It is a slippery slope. Defensively we run to the ball and thud. we go live during tackling circuits etc...etc...
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Post by John Knight on Apr 29, 2011 8:36:00 GMT -6
We have had teams that did not have to go live. I have no problem with that. I just see a problem of using a quick whistle to sto the play in team. I am not opposed to the two whistle setup some use and even if you say don't take them down some kids quit. I do agree that it is a young team problem. Once kids learn game mechanics and can perform at that level it is ok to back off of live practice.
Some kids never get that though.
The best teams we ever had could run offense vs air and get as much done as other teams that need full contact every day.
Defense requires some live reps and some kids need to learn to take a guy to the ground.
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