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Post by 19delta on Sept 5, 2021 16:41:15 GMT -6
This morning, I went into school to get my deadlift workout in. When I entered the weight room, there was equipment left out from the football team's Saturday morning film session the day before. Benches pulled out of squat racks, barbells not returned to storage racks, weights put away incorrectly. It was a mess. And not the first time I have found the weight room like this after the football team has used it.
This post isn't to ask anyone how to handle the situation. I already have taken care of that. Instead, it's more of a hypothesis I have about really good programs vs. everyone else.
We have a team in our conference that has won several state championships and produced an astounding number of scholarship football players for a school of 250 kids. My hypothesis is that if I were to walk into that school's weight room after the football team finished lifting, nothing would be out of place. Equipment would be put away and the weight room would look immaculate. Along the same lines, I would assume that if I went into their locker room at any point during the football season, there would be no trash, used athletic tape, grass and dirt from the practice field, or equipment and clothing strewn about.
The team I'm talking about doesn't make a lot of mistakes. They don't turn the ball over nor do they commit a lot of stupid penalties (pre snap or dead ball particularly). Of course, there are lots of factors far more important to sustained, long-term success for a high school football program than an orderly weight room and a clean locker room, but is there a correlation? Teams that have a long history of success...do those coaches struggle with getting kids to respect the weight room, the locker room, and other places that should be considered sacrosanct? And secondly, does anyone else think that there is a connection to a team that respects the weight room and the locker room and is also disciplined on the field?
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Post by blb on Sept 5, 2021 16:45:27 GMT -6
This morning, I went into school to get my deadlift workout in. When I entered the weight room, there was equipment left out from the football team's Saturday morning film session the day before. Benches pulled out of squat racks, barbells not returned to storage racks, weights put away incorrectly. It was a mess. And not the first time I have found the weight room like this after the football team has used it. This post isn't to ask anyone how to handle the situation. I already have taken care of that. Instead, it's more of a hypothesis I have about really good programs vs. everyone else. We have a team in our conference that has won several state championships and produced an astounding number of scholarship football players for a school of 250 kids. My hypothesis is that if I were to walk into that school's weight room after the football team finished lifting, nothing would be out of place. Equipment would be put away and the weight room would look immaculate. Along the same lines, I would assume that if I went into their locker room at any point during the football season, there would be no trash, used athletic tape, grass and dirt from the practice field, or equipment and clothing strewn about. The team I'm talking about doesn't make a lot of mistakes. They don't turn the ball over nor do they commit a lot of stupid penalties (pre snap or dead ball particularly). Of course, there are lots of factors far more important to sustained, long-term success for a high school football program than an orderly weight room and a clean locker room, but is there a correlation? Teams that have a long history of success...do those coaches struggle with getting kids to respect the weight room, the locker room, and other places that should be considered sacrosanct? And secondly, does anyone else think that there is a connection to a team that respects the weight room and the locker room and is also disciplined on the field? Yes, there is a connection-correlation. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2021 16:47:04 GMT -6
This morning, I went into school to get my deadlift workout in. When I entered the weight room, there was equipment left out from the football team's Saturday morning film session the day before. Benches pulled out of squat racks, barbells not returned to storage racks, weights put away incorrectly. It was a mess. And not the first time I have found the weight room like this after the football team has used it. This post isn't to ask anyone how to handle the situation. I already have taken care of that. Instead, it's more of a hypothesis I have about really good programs vs. everyone else. We have a team in our conference that has won several state championships and produced an astounding number of scholarship football players for a school of 250 kids. My hypothesis is that if I were to walk into that school's weight room after the football team finished lifting, nothing would be out of place. Equipment would be put away and the weight room would look immaculate. Along the same lines, I would assume that if I went into their locker room at any point during the football season, there would be no trash, used athletic tape, grass and dirt from the practice field, or equipment and clothing strewn about. The team I'm talking about doesn't make a lot of mistakes. They don't turn the ball over nor do they commit a lot of stupid penalties (pre snap or dead ball particularly). Of course, there are lots of factors far more important to sustained, long-term success for a high school football program than an orderly weight room and a clean locker room, but is there a correlation? Teams that have a long history of success...do those coaches struggle with getting kids to respect the weight room, the locker room, and other places that should be considered sacrosanct? And secondly, does anyone else think that there is a connection to a team that respects the weight room and the locker room and is also disciplined on the field? I don’t think. I know. I can see it it pre game. We have your problem as well. And you are right, it goes a lot deeper. |
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 5, 2021 18:42:49 GMT -6
Discipline touches every aspect of your team's day. Similar to the armed forces, or any other serious team effort.
You'll never see a messy barracks, a dirty Fire Truck, an Ambulance missing some equipment...
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 5, 2021 18:44:28 GMT -6
Discipline touches every aspect of your team's day. Similar to the armed forces. You'll never se a messy barracks. And no military has ever lost a war... |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 5, 2021 18:49:00 GMT -6
When you get into these discussions, there's a lot of factors that go into "success". As a guy who probably, from the outside, looked like a hot steaming mess of a coach/program (example- I didn't give two shits what kids wore to games), there are things that people swear by that makes them X,Y and Z and other people don't see that as a big deal. There is no magic bullet. That being said, I did make sure the weight room got cleaned up. Mostly because I always said if you treat the weight room right, it will treat you right. And, it was going to be me cleaning it up by myself if the kids didn't. That being said, my messy ass is 1-0 lifetime against that program you mention delt.  |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 5, 2021 21:00:26 GMT -6
When you get into these discussions, there's a lot of factors that go into "success". As a guy who probably, from the outside, looked like a hot steaming mess of a coach/program (example- I didn't give two shits what kids wore to games), there are things that people swear by that makes them X,Y and Z and other people don't see that as a big deal. There is no magic bullet. That being said, I did make sure the weight room got cleaned up. Mostly because I always said if you treat the weight room right, it will treat you right. And, it was going to be me cleaning it up by myself if the kids didn't. That being said, my messy ass is 1-0 lifetime against that program you mention delt. The sun shines on every dog's ass eventually. 😉 I'm not talking about 1 game. I'm talking about programs that have been consistently good for a really long time. For example, the team I'm talking about (which your team beat) last had a losing season in 1992. That was last century...😆 I just have to think that elite programs like that..their kids are racking their weights when they are done in the weight room and not leaving the ankle tape from Friday night's game on the locker room floor. |
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Post by tog on Sept 6, 2021 0:19:14 GMT -6
get off my lawn indeed
lol
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Post by Coach.A on Sept 6, 2021 6:30:44 GMT -6
If your Players have pride in their Program and a sense of ownership, they will care more. If they care about their Program, they will have greater respect the facilities, rules, and people in their Program.
Does having Players that care more result in greater success? 100% YES! It won't guarantee wins, but it will certainly help Teams reach their full potential.
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Post by jlenwood on Sept 6, 2021 16:28:50 GMT -6
There are a hundred little things that add up to long term success, but they all boil down to attention to detail in my opinion. I read in a Glazer Clinic book (yes youngsters, back when you had to get a book for info) about a presentation someone put on about rebuilding a program. They had the players set up the practice field every day. One day it wasn't set up perfectly and the coach made everyone go back to the locker room, come back out and re-set everything. They didn't get it done and so they went thru the entire sequence again until correct. The coach asserted that if you can't even do the most mundane things correctly, you will struggle with the complex. He went on to turn that program into a state contender every year.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 6, 2021 16:35:20 GMT -6
The Broken Window theory probably has some applicability to HS football programs.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Sept 7, 2021 9:30:40 GMT -6
There are a hundred little things that add up to long term success, but they all boil down to attention to detail in my opinion. I read in a Glazer Clinic book (yes youngsters, back when you had to get a book for info) about a presentation someone put on about rebuilding a program. They had the players set up the practice field every day. One day it wasn't set up perfectly and the coach made everyone go back to the locker room, come back out and re-set everything. They didn't get it done and so they went thru the entire sequence again until correct. The coach asserted that if you can't even do the most mundane things correctly, you will struggle with the complex. He went on to turn that program into a state contender every year.
I was told, "Everybody does the big things correctly. Winners do the big things and the little things correctly."
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Post by bigmoot2 on Sept 7, 2021 9:37:51 GMT -6
The Broken Window theory probably has some applicability to HS football programs. Whatbthe the BWT? |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 7, 2021 9:56:04 GMT -6
Yes, I believe that dialing in on all the little things is important for success, for all of the reasons that have already been discussed. However, I've seen an added benefit when trying to turn a program around; establishing accountability. Our boys know that there will be consequences for facilities being messy. If we establish that they're held accountable for the little things early on, there's no question that they'll be held accountable for everything.
IME, this aspect is important when trying to turn a corner as consequences for every mistake hammers the concept of accountability home hardest.
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Post by nicku on Sept 7, 2021 10:10:58 GMT -6
I think how a locker room looks, how a team cleans up a weight room, how players treat the janitors and ladies that helps serve them meals...that stuff matters.
Haircuts, facial hair, earrings, wearing a orange wristband for no reason...that doesn't matter.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 7, 2021 10:34:39 GMT -6
I think how a locker room looks, how a team cleans up a weight room, how players treat the janitors and ladies that helps serve them meals...that stuff matters. Haircuts, facial hair, earrings, wearing a orange wristband for no reason...that doesn't matter.
I agree completely. I have always found rules regarding what you described a bit draconian. And, it's probably not a fight you're going to win anyway so why try to die on that mountain....
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2021 11:37:14 GMT -6
The Broken Window theory probably has some applicability to HS football programs. Whatbthe the BWT? Basically it is a social theory that small signs of disorder or inattention such as broken windows in a neighborhood are indicators that larger issues within that community exist as well. I am sure there have been social scientists with studies that support the theory, as well as studies that refute its validity. The underlying idea is that broken windows in a neighborhood indicate the level of care the community members have about the community and social obligations. In this analogy, a messy and unkept weightroom could be an indication of the program's leaders attention to little details. In basic terms, the broken window theory is talking about the level of "eh, screw it" attitude in an community, or in this case a football program. Generally organizations with a high level of "screw it" mindset are not as successful |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 12:31:45 GMT -6
Basically it is a social theory that small signs of disorder or inattention such as broken windows in a neighborhood are indicators that larger issues within that community exist as well. I am sure there have been social scientists with studies that support the theory, as well as studies that refute its validity. The underlying idea is that broken windows in a neighborhood indicate the level of care the community members have about the community and social obligations. In this analogy, a messy and unkept weightroom could be an indication of the program's leaders attention to little details. In basic terms, the broken window theory is talking about the level of "eh, screw it" attitude in an community, or in this case a football program. Generally organizations with a high level of "screw it" mindset are not as successful There may be some truth to the overall level of care in a neighborhood when there are broken windows, but today the BWT has been refuted by a lot of different studies and extensions of it, like “Broken Window Policing” are very controversial. While you will find some support for it (mostly in think tanks and some management schools), academic researchers usually see it as an obsolete and ineffectual theory. The most famous example of BWT in action was what the NYPD did under Rudolph Guilliani back in the 90s. Basically, if cops found more petty crime in an area, like graffiti or vandalism (broken windows), the police would increase patrols and generally increase the law enforcement presence and tactics in those areas. The idea was that by stamping out the little stuff, you would keep more serious crimes from happening. For a while, NYC crime rates fell and the policy was hailed as revolutionary and Guilliani was considered a legit presidential candidate because of how it “cleaned up NYC.” However, as more details came out about associated policies like “racial profiling” and “stop and frisk” (which actually was a Bloomberg strategy to build upon the policies), the practice became a lot more controversial. Studies that came out later credited most of the drop in crime to unrelated factors, primarily gentrification in those neighborhoods that priced out the criminal elements and led to more investment and maintenance of the neighborhoods. Other studies cited the overall drop in violent crime across the country throughout the 90s and early 2000s and found NYC wasn’t particularly special and that cities who didn’t use BWT had similar declines. This makes sense: if you walk into a school with mostly poor kids from poor backgrounds, you’re much more likely to see “broken windows” (perhaps even literally), but if the school’s demographics change and you get more affluent families coming in, you’ll see fewer broken windows and issues in general. An administrator would surely love to take credit for the improvements, even when they aren’t the result of his or her policies. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 7, 2021 17:09:21 GMT -6
I think how a locker room looks, how a team cleans up a weight room, how players treat the janitors and ladies that helps serve them meals...that stuff matters. Haircuts, facial hair, earrings, wearing a orange wristband for no reason...that doesn't matter. Yep. Agreed. There is definitely a line between the stuff that should matter and the stuff that shouldn't. |
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