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Post by stackattack on Nov 11, 2006 17:19:03 GMT -6
I coach at a school where the students are encouraged to play a sport each season. I have been at schools where this was also encouraged but this is the first place where the kids actually listen. The majority of our team is now playing basketball or wrestling and once the spring comes around they are in baseball or track. While the politically correct thing to say is that you think it is great, but are their any of you that feel playing less sports is more beneficial to development in football.
Now, I would NEVER talk a player out of playing another sport. If they enjoy it, then they should do it. Heck, experience all you can in High School when you can. However, there is a little dark side to me that wants to sit them down and say, "Hey, If you ever want to dominate in football and help turn this program around, you have to dedicate a season to increasing that stout 185 lbs bench press max."
Don't other sports lift in-season just to maintain strength? If a kid is always in-season, how do they get stronger? My magic number for sports would be 2. That gives you one season to concentrate on improving those skills needed to be successful at those sports.
I think this is a major obstacle at the school I coach. They have been successful in every other sport, but football. Could it be b/c the players never have time for the weight room to improve in the sport that requires a considerable amount of time to be devoted to lifting. Anyone else agree or disagree? I would love to hear your opinions.
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Post by fort on Nov 11, 2006 17:46:14 GMT -6
I would never talk a kid out of joining another sport, especially wrestling (I'm an assistant wrestling coach too...). Wrestling is amazing for players, definitely linemen. They'll benefit from basketball or other sports as well. I think it's a very good thing to have them go out for multiple sports. Not something I'd try to prevent at all. I see where you are coming from, though, but I just think that some kids benefit in more way than just developing athletic abilities by playing in different sports.
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Post by coachseven on Nov 11, 2006 17:51:21 GMT -6
I was at a school where all the kids were encouraged to be one sport athletes. They had a bunch of sports teams that had some good players on them but none of the teams were doing real well. When I became the head football coach I worked very hard at getting the kids to play a sport every season. I also worked very hard at building a relationship with every other head coach of a sport. What happened is that we all worked together with a goal of sending each other a better athlete than we got. It was hard for everyone but we all did it. What happend was that we went from 4-6 in football to 9-3, became state runners-up in wrestling, basketball made the state tournament, baseball made the state tournament, and track had 3 state champions. I think for our school it made a huge difference not only in sports but also in school pride.
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Post by tigercoach on Nov 11, 2006 18:09:23 GMT -6
If you want to be a dominant football program then I think the max that a kid can do is 2 sports. There is no sport that trains athletes like football as long as there are good football staff's. Speed, strength, etc... Wrestling and track has some merit to helping football players in those programs, although, the problem with those sports are that they tend to focus only on individual development and not operate in a team setting. Basketball, baseball and soccer are useless in my opinion as none of them are concerned with training kids to becoming better athletes. Basketball coaches want gym rats who shoot free throws 1,000 times a day while never lifting or training and baseball programs are even worse. Kids can compete in the weight room and offseason training programs just as good or better than in most other 2nd or 3rd sports. It is because of the advanced training methods and programs that smart football programs use that the football player is almost always the most coveted athlete in the school. The other issue with good offseason football programs is that is is much tougher than any other "in-season" sport and some kids want to go and hide in soccer or golf. Fortunately, those hiders will most likely never see the field and just hang around to eat and be in the picture.
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Post by PowerDown on Nov 11, 2006 19:18:46 GMT -6
Fort,
About Wrestling... I will agree and disagree with you. Wrestling is great if the coach doesn't ask a kid to drop 10 - 20 lbs to fill out his team. Its great for lineman except you really only have 1 or 2 weight classes where most good lineman will fall. One is the undersized lineman that is quick and strong and the other is your big lineman that also should be quick and strong. When wrestling coaches start asking kids to starve themselves to fill a meet roster I have a problem. When a wrestling coach tells a lineman he is fat in the middle of football season when he is a starter and doing a good job, I HAVE BIG PROBLEM. When the kid starts a calorie burning lifting and work out program and dropping weight in the middle of football season, BIG PROBLEM. So with in those parameters and if you have 5 or 6 of my lineman working out everday and battling for the heavyweight position every week, I am all for it!!!!
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Post by PowerDown on Nov 11, 2006 19:21:38 GMT -6
As far as a great second sport for running backs, receivers, line backers and some lineman, it's lacrosse. I know it is still growing and not even heard of in some areas but it's growing and if you are a football coach looking for something to do in the spring start a lacrosse program.
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Post by coachjd on Nov 11, 2006 19:21:53 GMT -6
depending on the size of the school, you may need to have your kids be 2-3 sport athletes. You can lift all the weights you want, but the competition that the kids gain each day in practice and each game or meet in other sports is just as important as the off-season, IMO. I would try and work with the other coaches in helping them setup an in-season weightlifting program so the kids are at least in their 2 days per week.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 11, 2006 19:24:12 GMT -6
We only have a little over 200 kids in our school...can't make kids choose...when you do that, everyone is going to lose in the end eventually. I encourage the kids to go out for other sports...great way to build up respect and unity with the other coaches in the building.
We tell our football players that if they are playing another sport, they get their butts in the weightroom 2 days a week. If they aren't in another sport, they do three days a week. Kids have been very good about this over the years.
I wish more of our kids wrestled. We have guys who could be varsity wrestlers who would rather be 7th or 8th man on the basketball team.
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Post by stackattack on Nov 11, 2006 19:33:00 GMT -6
The wrestling issue is being discussed currently with our staff. My nose is a great heavyweight wrestler and made it to states last year. I encourage the heck out of him to wrestle. On the other hand, our junior starting guard, who's aggressiveness and knowledge of leverage is incredible but lacks speed, knows he can be dominate in the 160lbs weight class and intends to wrestle in that class. In order for him to wrestle his time in the weight room is slim to none. His lack of strength was painfully obvious in numerous games. I can assure you that if he comes to football weighing around 160 again he won't be starting next year. A 160 lb. offensive linemen is not successful when trying to block the 260 lbs defensive linemen in our conference.
Furthermore, I rarely object to the "athlete" playing other points. More than likely those player are blessed with natural abilities that aren't developed and their abilities can be very beneficial to other sports. The 260 lb defensive linemen going out for the swimming team is a different issue, as is the 200lb All Conference LB sitting the bench and playing JV basketball.
Thanks for your honest opinions so far.
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Post by PowerDown on Nov 11, 2006 20:01:14 GMT -6
Just to clarify my stance the 2 classes I was talking about was the 190 I think and the heavy weight and that was for lineman. The other classes down to 160 are great for fast backs and such but the benefit to them on the football field isn't the same as the one one one ground battle that happens with lineman.
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FB4life
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by FB4life on Nov 11, 2006 20:20:48 GMT -6
Been in that situation before, there's not much to do but support them. At the previous school I was at. I had a lot of 2 and 3 sport athletes, in fact a majority of them played baseball.
I felt those players needed to be lifting during their season, but the coach felt it would deter from there throwing and hitting ability, which was an absolute CROCK OF $%!#.
I could never tell a kid they couldn't play another sport (Believe me ... I wanted too..). So those players where never involved until the beginning of Summer workouts.
I guess the positive of playing multiple sports is the spirit of competition is being developed year round, something you can't get in the weight room. Just my two cents...
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Post by stackattack on Nov 11, 2006 20:42:26 GMT -6
I hear the same arguement about playing multi-sports is that it develops competiveness. Which I don't necessarily disagree with, but isn't there some level of competiveness in the weight room? Both with your teammates and with yourself? I suppose the team aspect of competiveness is lost, but I'm not entirely sold on it being so beneficial that ignoring the need to add strength, muscle, and agility while building team chemistry is more important.
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Post by PowerDown on Nov 11, 2006 21:14:54 GMT -6
Ok , I guess this discussion has raised my hackles, first thing that gets me is wrestling coaches that tell kids to lose weight unnaturally, close second is basketball and baseball coaches that tell kids that lifting weights and getting stronger is wrong. Look at the pro athletes in both sports they are ripped, heck even look at pro golfers they are lifting now as well. Doing things that are going to make you a better athlete will not hurt you in any sport, plain and simple!!!
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FB4life
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by FB4life on Nov 11, 2006 21:53:09 GMT -6
Ok , I guess this discussion has raised my hackles, first thing that gets me is wrestling coaches that tell kids to lose weight unnaturally, close second is basketball and baseball coaches that tell kids that lifting weights and getting stronger is wrong. Look at the pro athletes in both sports they are ripped, heck even look at pro golfers they are lifting now as well. Doing things that are going to make you a better athlete will not hurt you in any sport, plain and simple!!! kudos.... |
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Post by coachjd on Nov 11, 2006 22:03:00 GMT -6
Our DC and DL coaches run our wrestling program and they have the kids in the wgt room 3 days per week up until x-mas and then after that its 2x per week. They do not allow the kids to drop much weight. They have them wrestle as close to their natural weight without losing a ton of weight.
What I like about wrestling, is how it also incorperates the use of leverage. It seems to me, fewer kids understand leverage, and wrestling is all about leverage. Our best OL and defensive players have been wrestlers.
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Post by fort on Nov 12, 2006 9:05:29 GMT -6
Fort, About Wrestling... I will agree and disagree with you. Wrestling is great if the coach doesn't ask a kid to drop 10 - 20 lbs to fill out his team. Its great for lineman except you really only have 1 or 2 weight classes where most good lineman will fall. One is the undersized lineman that is quick and strong and the other is your big lineman that also should be quick and strong. When wrestling coaches start asking kids to starve themselves to fill a meet roster I have a problem. When a wrestling coach tells a lineman he is fat in the middle of football season when he is a starter and doing a good job, I HAVE BIG PROBLEM. When the kid starts a calorie burning lifting and work out program and dropping weight in the middle of football season, BIG PROBLEM. So with in those parameters and if you have 5 or 6 of my lineman working out everday and battling for the heavyweight position every week, I am all for it!!!! No doubt. I think that's the sign if a irresponsible wrestling coach, though. First of all, I've never heard of HS wrestling program that wasn't in the weight room at least 2-3x a week, so no one should have to worry about the kids simply not lifting. If a HS wrestling coach doesn't have his kids lift, he's an absolute joke. Secondly, I can't stand coaches who tell the kids to drop a lot of weight. I'm a MS coach, so we don't worry about that much at all. Once they get in shape, they will start to lose some weight naturally, and they'll fit into the team somewhere. Coaches who have kids lose more than 5-10 pounds to fill out a team, like you said, shouldn't have his position. You definitely don't tell a kid that's playing a fall sport to start losing weight during that season. The competition the linemen will have (since they all usually fall into 1-2 weight classes) is really great, as is the things they'll develop as athletes from wrestling. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 12, 2006 9:59:57 GMT -6
multisport athletes = gREAT
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Post by coachcalande on Nov 12, 2006 10:22:06 GMT -6
I want them playing more than one sport.  get them off the couch and they will be better athletes and perhaps bring their buddies out for the team. |
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Post by knight9299 on Nov 12, 2006 10:31:29 GMT -6
Ok , I guess this discussion has raised my hackles, first thing that gets me is wrestling coaches that tell kids to lose weight unnaturally, close second is basketball and baseball coaches that tell kids that lifting weights and getting stronger is wrong. Look at the pro athletes in both sports they are ripped, heck even look at pro golfers they are lifting now as well. Doing things that are going to make you a better athlete will not hurt you in any sport, plain and simple!!! We just don't have the numbers in our school for our guys NOT to be multi-sport athletes. Our weightroom is 4 years old this spring. So not all of the sports have jumped on the wagon. ::)Surprisingly it's wrestling that's a big problem with lifting. Baseball is up there too. Our head basketball coach is one of the few I know that is PRO weight lifting. We ask our guys to be in the weight room 3-4 days a week if they are not in a sport. And it is encouraged by the AD that in sport athletes lift at least 2 days a week. Right now my biggest issue is wrestling and cutting weight. There is a max a kid can cut in the season but to help us out I tell the wrestler/football players don't cut unless it means you are going to be a varsity wrestler. |
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Post by jdwatters on Nov 12, 2006 11:45:57 GMT -6
Although I'm a MS coach right now, from what I can see and from what I remember about my HS playing days it seems that it really comes down to coaching communication.
My football team had alot of baseball players, but the HC of baseball was also the DC during football, so his guys lifted with us almost the entire off-season. There were also alot of Football/Track guys and that was because the head track coach was the Secondary coach, in fact he would run our plyometrics program during the off-season. However, I seem to remember almost no football/wrestlers and definately no football/basketball players, and I think that was due to the fact the coaches didn't get along. I remember I wrestled for two weeks and my HC in football didn't seem to like it too much, especially when I sustained a concussion in wrestling that doctors told me would impair my senior season in football if I received another one in wrestling. I was back in the football weight-room a week later and my two sport days had come to a close ;D
Now it wasn't just my HC's fault, but a combination of bad feelings between the coaches of the sports involved. So it seems that if the coaches compromise and make a commitment to improving the TOTAL ATHLETE, not just a football or basketball player, everyone wins. Just my two cents.
Coach Watters
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Post by champ93 on Nov 12, 2006 12:12:12 GMT -6
I see many of you have the same thoughts and issues as I. I believe that multisport athletes gain a competition advantage through their being in other sports, assuming they are actually competitive. Our wrestling program is on their 3rd coach in 4 years and has a bunch of huckle-berries as assistants. Our kids get spanked regularly and lose all-confidence and disclipline we teach them in the fall. I offered to help with their weight training, but I was told that wrestlers should not lift during the season. (I was an assistant wrestling coach at another school in another state with a successful program that lifted regularly).
Our new basketball coach promised in his interview (I was on the hiring committee) to have his kids using the same program as the football team and that they would lift 2 days a week during the season. So far (he was hired in June) no non-football playing basketballers were lifting in the off--season, we'll see during the season. Our track coach is a cross country/distance guru and believes his kids should not lift with their legs or do power cleans "since those are only good for a short burst of speed."
So I have to be politically correct telling my kids to play other sports, which I used to firmly believe in m former school, but do not anymore. I tell parents during my meetings that we train kids to be better athletes first which carries over into other sports and we will help their kid become stronger and more flexible, preventing injuries. 1 season ending knee injury in 3 years is great proof of that. I also tell them they should have the head of any coach that does not properly prepare their kids for their season during and before their season is in session. My AD agrees with me, but doesn't force any of the other coaches to actually follow a program.
Multi-sporting can be beneficial if coaches of the other sports buy into football is important too.
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