|
|
Post by option1 on Jun 16, 2019 5:45:31 GMT -6
Is there a way to combat kids that want to play but do not EXPECT to win, AND are ok with it? How do we "talk" them out of it? If this is their mentality and riding them makes the experience not fun for them, is it even our job to try and force the "winning" issue?
REAL SCENARIO:
Coach: Gets on player for attendance and then half @ssing in the weightroom.
Player: (To teammates) **c* this s***, I don't even need to play football.
Teammate: Then don't, expletive...
Player: Naw, I'ma play, but I'm juss sayin'. I got grades, I know I ain't D1 so I'ma take my Bright Futures scholarship right where I wanna go. Plus my Moms got me on pre-pay, I'm straight.
Teammate: Man if you don't work your @ss getting juiced.
Player: (Lovingly) B***h, you play on 2 special teams, 1 of em' exp/FG and we don't even kick. Anyway I'm just tryna' have fun and all this other s***t too extra.
END.
We got a tough road ahead of us this year and a bunch of these type of kids on our team. We can compete with a great effort but the issue is getting that great effort out of this group. They won't do more than they will do and most of what they will do is going through the motions just trying to get bye.
I almost feel as if players are desensitized from meaningful, thought provoking correspondence by all the motivational quote tweets, etc we send hoping that just one sinks in and makes a difference.
What do you do, or have you done in these situations that either worked or didn't work?
|
|
|
|
Post by spillnkill on Jun 16, 2019 5:48:45 GMT -6
Almost the perfect example of why it takes years to cultivate culture and not two weeks of team building activities.
|
|
|
|
Post by huddlehut on Jun 16, 2019 11:11:50 GMT -6
You and the staff hang on until a class (or two) comes through with some great athletes and you win some games and experience above average success...and then you convince everyone that the success is the result of your program.
This is typically done via Twitter and Facebook postings that show your players in the weight room, that show them helping in the community or acting like they're teaching 1st graders to read, etc...(and typically these posts include motivational quotes or the word "grind" or something similar).
All the while, you and your staff will be aware of the fact that you were the beneficiaries of a talented group of kids that would have been successful had they not done any of the things that were posted about on Twitter.
If you are able, you speak at some clinics about the magical things that your program accomplished... This success (or "culture"), you explain, took years of work and diligence on your part... However, the hardest part was just waiting for that great group of kids to get to high school so that they could save your job!
Then, once that group of kids graduates, you move on to another job or you wait for the next great group of kids...
There you go... That's it in a nutshell.
|
|
|
|
Post by spillnkill on Jun 16, 2019 11:17:36 GMT -6
You and the staff hang on until a class (or two) comes through with some great athletes and you win some games and experience above average success...and then you convince everyone that the success is the result of your program. This is typically done via Twitter and Facebook postings that show your players in the weight room, that show them helping in the community or acting like they're teaching 1st graders to read, etc...(and typically these posts include motivational quotes or the word "grind" or something similar). All the while, you and your staff will be aware of the fact that you were the beneficiaries of a talented group of kids that would have been successful had they not done any of the things that were posted about on Twitter. If you are able, you speak at some clinics about the magical things that your program accomplished... Once that group of kids graduates, you move on our you wait for the next great group of kids... Know of a ton of great programs that don’t post anything on social media. Know a lot of great programs that coach their tails off and win games. Culture isn’t waiting, culture isn’t blaming that a group of kids isn’t talented enough. Culture isn’t what you post on social media. Please say this was sarcasm. Lol |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jun 16, 2019 14:06:36 GMT -6
Let a kid like that go. He doesn't want to try, he'll bail when it gets tough in a game, and he'll be a pain in your ass the whole way. What's the benefit of keeping him?
|
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jun 16, 2019 14:08:35 GMT -6
You and the staff hang on until a class (or two) comes through with some great athletes and you win some games and experience above average success...and then you convince everyone that the success is the result of your program. This is typically done via Twitter and Facebook postings that show your players in the weight room, that show them helping in the community or acting like they're teaching 1st graders to read, etc...(and typically these posts include motivational quotes or the word "grind" or something similar). All the while, you and your staff will be aware of the fact that you were the beneficiaries of a talented group of kids that would have been successful had they not done any of the things that were posted about on Twitter. If you are able, you speak at some clinics about the magical things that your program accomplished... This success (or "culture"), you explain, took years of work and diligence on your part... However, the hardest part was just waiting for that great group of kids to get to high school so that they could save your job! Then, once that group of kids graduates, you move on to another job or you wait for the next great group of kids... There you go... That's it in a nutshell. I tend to think this is sarcastic. In that case, bravo. This is gold Jerry. However, if it's not, there's a reason I think I'm done coaching. |
|
|
|
Post by option1 on Jun 16, 2019 17:16:17 GMT -6
It may be sarcasm, but it definitely happens.
|
|
|
|
Post by CS on Jun 16, 2019 18:05:47 GMT -6
Some places you just can’t win. This may be one of them
|
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jun 16, 2019 19:02:44 GMT -6
Some places you just can’t win. This may be one of them I used to think this was false when I was younger, and I still think there's one guy for every situation- whether or not that guy gets the job or the match up is a different story- but in my age I've learned that some places identify with losing and in some weird way actually enjoy it. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jun 16, 2019 19:04:02 GMT -6
It may be sarcasm, but it definitely happens. Oh, I agree. That's why I put the second sentence. |
|
|
|
Post by option1 on Jun 17, 2019 5:31:42 GMT -6
Let a kid like that go. He doesn't want to try, he'll bail when it gets tough in a game, and he'll be a pain in your ass the whole way. What's the benefit of keeping him? This is a no brainer for me and if I was the HC these types of kids would have a much shorter leash. As it is I am just a DC. I am trusted enough to make personnel decisions and many of these kids do not play on defense. From an athletic perspective they give us the best chance to compete but in my mind if competing is as close to the goal as we can get then I'd rather do that with guys that give the most effort. We're not a losing team. We're an extremely average .500 team that every year finds a way to lose 2-3 one score ball games. The past two seasons we have lost to the same region finalist 13-6. We have also bungled games against teams with losing records. We can win with these kids but we have to find a way to tune them in. Doesn't help that we have 3 ESPN top 200 players that transferred and still live in our area and hang out with our kids. I believe this broke our kids will some. One of the biggest issues with all of this is that these are likable kids. They are not bad, mischievous or disrespectful. You want to root for them. It's very hard telling them that I do not trust them to play on my side of the ball. They hate playing in our offense so much it almost makes football a punishment which is not the goal. IDK, off to fight the good fight another day, for now. |
|
|
|
Post by Coach Vint on Jun 17, 2019 6:28:33 GMT -6
We had a ton of guys like this when we got to our place. Everyone told us all the things they won’t and wouldn’t do. They won’t come to early morning weight room. They won’t pass their classes. Hell, they won’t come to practice. We set standards, held them accountable, and had some attrition as some guys couldn’t make it. Those were guys who just refused. We also spent a lot of time on relationships. We did things with our guys away from football. We did position group meals and things like that.
Each year the buy-in has gotten better. We still have some fence sitters. We have some guys that are compliant but don’t take ownership. But the number of guys bought in is increasing. We brought enthusiasm when we got here. That helped as well. We spend time on academics also to help them have a chance to go to college. When guys know you genuinely care about them as more than an athlete they tend to trust you more. This gets more buy in.
Many guys need to hear that you believe in them. They need to know that you see something special in them. Also understand there are guys who have things pulling at them outside of your program. Sometimes you have to make them choose.
We we also have a saying here. A ride is not an excuse. We give every kid who needs a ride everyday. I pick 6 to 8 kids up in the summer. I make 2 trips. Most our our coaches bring 3-4 guys. It is what we have to do to get them here.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 17, 2019 7:23:22 GMT -6
option1 Question: Did the initial coach to player interaction happen in public? Like it or not, I can see that entire event being the player just trying to "save face" because the coach called him out in front of others. The "i don't care" response is often a security blanket type response used by many who fear failing after even after putting out their best effort.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 10:37:00 GMT -6
Some places you just can’t win. This may be one of them I used to think this was false when I was younger, and I still think there's one guy for every situation- whether or not that guy gets the job or the match up is a different story- but in my age I've learned that some places identify with losing and in some weird way actually enjoy it. I don’t know if they enjoy it, but they sure as hell get used to it and get comfortable with it. Learned helplessness is one of those things that sounds like psychobabble but is very real. With this kid in question, I wouldn’t cut him or try to run him off. He’s being a turd, but it sounds like he’s mostly trying to protect his ego in front of other kids and seem cool. I’d just stay on him to be there and hold him accountable. If he quits, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over him, though. It sounds like the other kids are ok if they call him out on his BS. |
|
|
|
Post by option1 on Jun 19, 2019 12:01:08 GMT -6
The example I gave was of one incidence with 1 player but we have a team full of em'. Spring was very enlightening for us as coaches with this group and how they are "maturing".
This particular kid definitely won't quit in fact he and a couple others were already suspended for spreading transfer rumors (very bad issue in our county) and he quickly had his parents threatening legal action. He wants to be with us.
The thread was referencing how to change the dynamic. How can we get players to adopt a goal that may not be there own? If they just want to play, and don't really care to "win", how can we change that? And if it makes a kids high school athletic experience miserable is it worth it?
|
|
