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Post by shocktroop34 on May 23, 2019 10:27:45 GMT -6
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Post by CS on May 23, 2019 10:43:22 GMT -6
Fine. There are better drills anyway. Oklahoma drill is good for $hitty players accidentally hurting dudes who will actually play in season
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Post by planck on May 23, 2019 10:43:55 GMT -6
Fine. There are better drills anyway. Oklahoma drill is good for $hitty players accidentally hurting dudes who will actually play in season Basically my experience and thoughts.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 23, 2019 10:59:18 GMT -6
I nixed it years ago as a deterrent to avoid injury. The NFL seems to be bent on anything remotely relatable to concussions.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 23, 2019 11:10:00 GMT -6
Actually the version shown in the video was a nutcracker, but "oklahoma" these days seems to cover all variations of m-on-n players in a miniature scrimmage. The NFL can easily skip these and other contact drills because their players are so experienced and good already that they need only work on small refinements that they can isolate in other ways. For inexperienced players, as at the level I coach, oklahomas or something like them are indispensible for developing football sense, plus a lot of fun. After all, the drill is just a little game of football, and considerably more controlled in terms of space, time, and matchups than an actual football game. If you want to say oklahomas are too dangerous, then you're really saying tackle football is too dangerous, for what goes on in such a drill that doesn't go on in games? Except in games the coaches and officials are farther away, and can't pick out the players they want to send against each other, and the players may be coming from who-knows-what direction and distance.
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Post by Defcord on May 23, 2019 11:23:53 GMT -6
Besides the safety of the issue the drill in the video is stupid, and we do it too, because it's unrealistic. The offense wins every single time. It creates two gaps for one defensive player to defend. I game plan and practice all week to avoid that from happening. I may be off on this but it's always bugged me.
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Post by coachscdub on May 23, 2019 12:09:40 GMT -6
I Dont really like this drill, our kids love it and ask for it everyday. I prefer gauntlet drills, with open field blocking scenarios.
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Post by chi5hi on May 23, 2019 12:22:47 GMT -6
We do it, but we use a linebacker as well.
It's FOOTBALL, for God's sake! This is how you play it!
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Post by gccwolverine on May 23, 2019 12:27:19 GMT -6
I nixed it years ago as a deterrent to avoid injury. The NFL seems to be bent on anything remotely relatable to concussions. Then they better cancel 9on7 drill, physical downs like 3rd and 2, 4th and 1 all those things result violent point of attack collisions where a human being is trying to move a person against his will. Oklahoma fine whatever we use it literally once a year anyways and its modified to a stacked tunnel OL/DL...... OL or RB / LB....... WR/DB but my bigger concern is they also canned pods and half line work. Those things literally simulate the game of football in a controlled environment. If we can't justify practicing things then how exactly can we justify playing the game full speed. If point of attack collisions are bad on Tuesday then they are bad on Sunday as well.
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Post by gccwolverine on May 23, 2019 12:35:15 GMT -6
Actually the version shown in the video was a nutcracker, but "oklahoma" these days seems to cover all variations of m-on-n players in a miniature scrimmage. The NFL can easily skip these and other contact drills because their players are so experienced and good already that they need only work on small refinements that they can isolate in other ways. For inexperienced players, as at the level I coach, oklahomas or something like them are indispensible for developing football sense, plus a lot of fun. After all, the drill is just a little game of football, and considerably more controlled in terms of space, time, and matchups than an actual football game. If you want to say oklahomas are too dangerous, then you're really saying tackle football is too dangerous, for what goes on in such a drill that doesn't go on in games? Except in games the coaches and officials are farther away, and can't pick out the players they want to send against each other, and the players may be coming from who-knows-what direction and distance. Thank you. If this is too dangerous then asking a full back to kick out a DE on power is tantamount to child abuse same with asking a FB to ISO a mike lber in the hole on 3rd and 2. Asking a Guard to trap a 3 technique who isn't looking is then a felony. I've been saying this for years - no one want injuries and we all want to prevent them as much as possible but at some point in time we either have to come to grips with the fact that football is a dangerous violent point of attack game that can't be made safe and everyone knows what they are signing up for or we have to just shut the game down. The absolute worst thing we can do is have football people continue to chip away at the essence of the game by trying to appease to non football people. You take KR away there is always going to be a next most dangerous play, you take punt away next, there is going to be another one, you say ok you can't throw a post over the middle anymore because that results in potentially dangerous scenarios, then the none football people shout and that power play is now the most dangerous play in football that needs to go too. You can't win and we won't win by whiddling away the dangerous things because guess what..... FOOTBALL the game isn't and can't be made safe. We can teach good and proper technique to be as safe as possible we can practice safer and not have as much contact but on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday it's going to be dangerous if you're asking 1 man to move another against his will from point A to point B.
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Post by wingtol on May 23, 2019 13:22:08 GMT -6
Feel the same way as some do in regards to the NFL doing it, if they can't block or tackle and hit they wouldn't be at that level. We do it occasionaly in camp just to get use to contact. It's in a controlled area and we line the rb and lb up closer than usual to stop the 10 yard sprint at each other tackle.
It's a physciall game built on contact. We are down to one week of pre-season camp in pads, not that we want to beat kids into the ground but they need to get use to contact. Your body needs to adjust. Is it really different from doing a half line drill with your best on best? I feel like sometimes trying to make the game safer is making it less safe.
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Post by newhope on May 23, 2019 13:40:14 GMT -6
The NFL is different. Those guys can do the things you want to see in this drill. If they couldn't, they wouldn't be in the NFL. We use it once a year, on the first day of contact, for about 20 minutes or so. We try as best we can to eliminate the possibility of someone getting hurt during the drill from things other than the actual contact (at least as best as we can). We want to see who will hit and who will avoid and who will actually hide.
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Post by CS on May 23, 2019 14:18:59 GMT -6
I don’t understand how not using Oklahoma has some how translated into not hitting.
Of course you have to get used to hitting and we do hit but In a different way. I have done it in the past and have the impression that doing other things have the same effect and can simulate what they will see in a game better.
Also it seems like every year we did it some booger eater would somehow hurt a good player whilst curled up in the fetal position hoping to avoid contact
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Post by oldman61 on May 23, 2019 15:57:06 GMT -6
Besides the safety of the issue the drill in the video is stupid, and we do it too, because it's unrealistic. The offense wins every single time. It creates two gaps for one defensive player to defend. I game plan and practice all week to avoid that from happening. I may be off on this but it's always bugged me. I couldn’t disagree more. I am a defensive guy and love doing these types of drills. We do dozens of versions with and without tackling being a part of it. The 2 pieces you’re missing are; we teach our defensive players, yes all even LBs and DBs, there are 2 ways to control/win the gap, with you body and with “his” body. If you squeeze your opponent you can hold both gaps. The RB can of course cross over the bag like all wimpy offensive players do, but the drill is still good. Secondly, it’s a great drill to teach the most under appreciated defensive skill, block destruction. Clap your wrists together, lock out, see the ball and get the heck off the guy blocking you! We spend a lot of time working block destruction. I mean OL spend everyday trying to block us, so we spend a lot of time getting off those blocks. This is also a great drill to teach that skill, block destruct and make the tackle.
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Post by kcbazooka on May 23, 2019 17:22:09 GMT -6
Goal line situations - how is that supposed to be practiced? LB vs RB in the hole.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 23, 2019 17:26:14 GMT -6
I used a 3 vs 2 drill for a long time where the offense should win. 1RB + 2 OL vs 1 DL + 1 LB
Also I LOVE half line. I can't see chit otherwise. 1/2 line RPO drill is borderline erotic.
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Post by Defcord on May 23, 2019 18:23:44 GMT -6
Besides the safety of the issue the drill in the video is stupid, and we do it too, because it's unrealistic. The offense wins every single time. It creates two gaps for one defensive player to defend. I game plan and practice all week to avoid that from happening. I may be off on this but it's always bugged me. I couldn’t disagree more. I am a defensive guy and love doing these types of drills. We do dozens of versions with and without tackling being a part of it. The 2 pieces you’re missing are; we teach our defensive players, yes all even LBs and DBs, there are 2 ways to control/win the gap, with you body and with “his” body. If you squeeze your opponent you can hold both gaps. The RB can of course cross over the bag like all wimpy offensive players do, but the drill is still good. Secondly, it’s a great drill to teach the most under appreciated defensive skill, block destruction. Clap your wrists together, lock out, see the ball and get the heck off the guy blocking you! We spend a lot of time working block destruction. I mean OL spend everyday trying to block us, so we spend a lot of time getting off those blocks. This is also a great drill to teach that skill, block destruct and make the tackle. I understand what you are saying about gap control and being able to squeeze the blocker into the gap. I think it’s fair to expect my kid to squeeze the blocker to tighten that gap and help whoever is responsible for it but I don’t think fair to expect a kid to consistently eliminate a gap with his opponents body and a gap with his own. I just don’t see it as a consistent winner. Even if you watch the video, the offense wins pretty much every time. Sometimes they are stepping over the bag but that wasn’t the case most of the time. All they do is wait till the defender declares and then go the opposite direction. As far as block destruction, I agree 100% it is vital and under appreciated. I gave an hour long round table talk about the top three skills our defenders needed to have and it was a third of the presentation.
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Post by oldman61 on May 23, 2019 18:32:09 GMT -6
I couldn’t disagree more. I am a defensive guy and love doing these types of drills. We do dozens of versions with and without tackling being a part of it. The 2 pieces you’re missing are; we teach our defensive players, yes all even LBs and DBs, there are 2 ways to control/win the gap, with you body and with “his” body. If you squeeze your opponent you can hold both gaps. The RB can of course cross over the bag like all wimpy offensive players do, but the drill is still good. Secondly, it’s a great drill to teach the most under appreciated defensive skill, block destruction. Clap your wrists together, lock out, see the ball and get the heck off the guy blocking you! We spend a lot of time working block destruction. I mean OL spend everyday trying to block us, so we spend a lot of time getting off those blocks. This is also a great drill to teach that skill, block destruct and make the tackle. I understand what you are saying about gap control and being able to squeeze the blocker into the gap. I think it’s fair to expect my kid to squeeze the blocker to tighten that gap and help whoever is responsible for it but I don’t think fair to expect a kid to consistently eliminate a gap with his opponents body and a gap with his own. I just don’t see it as a consistent winner. Even if you watch the video, the offense wins pretty much every time. Sometimes they are stepping over the bag but that wasn’t the case most of the time. All they do is wait till the defender declares and then go the opposite direction. As far as block destruction, I agree 100% it is vital and under appreciated. I gave an hour long round table talk about the top three skills our defenders needed to have and it was a third of the presentation. I also agree it is certainly an “offensive drill” and will not be a defensive winner on a regular basis. But with that being said, in practice you put the kids in the worst case scenarios. We always tell our kids that Friday nights should be the easiest day of the week. I should probably ask this in a different thread, what we’re the other 2 skills? Love talking defensive football!
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Post by CoachP on May 23, 2019 18:56:28 GMT -6
The fact of the matter is you can safely practice Run Blocking / Run Block Destruction, Reading a Block and Tackling a ball carrier in much safer and effective ways.
The only thing an Okie is good for is hype. Find a drill for your athletes to compete and generate the hype.
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Post by CoachM58 on May 23, 2019 19:27:15 GMT -6
I'm a supporter of the traditional Oklahoma and new age Oklahoma drills.
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Post by oldman61 on May 23, 2019 19:48:29 GMT -6
The fact of the matter is you can safely practice Run Blocking / Run Block Destruction, Reading a Block and Tackling a ball carrier in much safer and effective ways. The only thing an Okie is good for is hype. Find a drill for your athletes to compete and generate the hype. Not disagreeing, just trying to learn, what are some of the ways you like to practice these?
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Post by fantom on May 23, 2019 21:58:52 GMT -6
We stopped doing this drill years ago. We used to do a lot of those "toughness" drills on the Saturday that was the first day of full pads. One year in our final preseason meeting the HC surprised us by asking if we thought that we were accomplishing anything with those drills or if we'd be better off just having a practice. It was a unanimous vote- we'd all decided that stuff like that was a waste of time.
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Post by CoachP on May 23, 2019 22:03:19 GMT -6
The fact of the matter is you can safely practice Run Blocking / Run Block Destruction, Reading a Block and Tackling a ball carrier in much safer and effective ways. The only thing an Okie is good for is hype. Find a drill for your athletes to compete and generate the hype. Not disagreeing, just trying to learn, what are some of the ways you like to practice these? Coach, For me, everything is a progression starting from the "Winning position" and working backwards. We then work on combining the skills (for example Run Block Destruction and Tackling) again starting in a winning position and working backwards. We do this so that when it comes to a controlled contact session, such as inside run or scrimmage, our athletes know how to use the techniques we teach in a safe manner. This does not mean the violence of the game is taken away but the hitting each other for hitting each others sake or to find out "how tough" we are is removed.
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Post by wingtol on May 24, 2019 5:48:34 GMT -6
I read some articles on this the other night and was wondering what is everyones defenition of Oklahoma drill? They had a video in one of the articles to show Bull in the Ring, which should be banned at least my interperation of it, all it showed was a board drill 1-1 with guys in a circle. So just currious what everyone defnies these drills as.
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Post by Defcord on May 24, 2019 6:39:22 GMT -6
I read some articles on this the other night and was wondering what is everyones defenition of Oklahoma drill? They had a video in one of the articles to show Bull in the Ring, which should be banned at least my interperation of it, all it showed was a board drill 1-1 with guys in a circle. So just currious what everyone defnies these drills as. This might be the best post so far. There are definitely multiple versions of the drill. Some are safe and some aren't and some of each look similar enough to outsiders that they just lump them into concussion causers.
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Post by Defcord on May 24, 2019 6:44:44 GMT -6
I understand what you are saying about gap control and being able to squeeze the blocker into the gap. I think it’s fair to expect my kid to squeeze the blocker to tighten that gap and help whoever is responsible for it but I don’t think fair to expect a kid to consistently eliminate a gap with his opponents body and a gap with his own. I just don’t see it as a consistent winner. Even if you watch the video, the offense wins pretty much every time. Sometimes they are stepping over the bag but that wasn’t the case most of the time. All they do is wait till the defender declares and then go the opposite direction. As far as block destruction, I agree 100% it is vital and under appreciated. I gave an hour long round table talk about the top three skills our defenders needed to have and it was a third of the presentation. I also agree it is certainly an “offensive drill” and will not be a defensive winner on a regular basis. But with that being said, in practice you put the kids in the worst case scenarios. We always tell our kids that Friday nights should be the easiest day of the week. I should probably ask this in a different thread, what we’re the other 2 skills? Love talking defensive football! I just think we have some philosophical differences on this one. I generally don't want to practice worst case scenarios. I want to spend my time on the things that keep us out of worst case scenarios. We will practice things we can control and we believe in teaching kids to execute in tough situations and we believe struggle empowers growth but we still want to focus getting our kids into the best possible situation to succeed as often as possible. If the drill had one late and the blocker knew he had to keep the defender out of there. And the defender knew he had to secure that gap but he had a beat a block to do it then I think the drill would be better. At least for what we are trying to accomplish. The other two fundamentals that we consider "musts" and think are vital to playing successful defense are tracking with leverage in pursuit to a tackle and putting physical pressure on the ball every time we encounter it. There's more to it than that but those are our big three.
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Post by cwaltsmith on May 24, 2019 7:04:47 GMT -6
I don’t understand how not using Oklahoma has some how translated into not hitting. Of course you have to get used to hitting and we do hit but In a different way. I have done it in the past and have the impression that doing other things have the same effect and can simulate what they will see in a game better. Also it seems like every year we did it some booger eater would somehow hurt a good player whilst curled up in the fetal position hoping to avoid contact Coach, as others have said i don't wanna get into a argument here at all. However, you have said twice in this post, that you have other drills that do the same thing but are better... My question is what are those drills. As said by others, this IMHO is a great drill for teaching gap control for DL, vertical push into LBs for OLINE, seeing open windows & filling them for the LB, and seeing how holes open up and how to cut into them for RBs. So what drill can I get those things accomplished all at one time in a controlled environment between kids that are matched up with like skilled players???
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Post by CS on May 24, 2019 7:08:38 GMT -6
I don’t understand how not using Oklahoma has some how translated into not hitting. Of course you have to get used to hitting and we do hit but In a different way. I have done it in the past and have the impression that doing other things have the same effect and can simulate what they will see in a game better. Also it seems like every year we did it some booger eater would somehow hurt a good player whilst curled up in the fetal position hoping to avoid contact Coach, as others have said i don't wanna get into a argument here at all. However, you have said twice in this post, that you have other drills that do the same thing but are better... My question is what are those drills. As said by others, this IMHO is a great drill for teaching gap control for DL, vertical push into LBs for OLINE, seeing open windows & filling them for the LB, and seeing how holes open up and how to cut into them for RBs. So what drill can I get those things accomplished all at one time in a controlled environment between kids that are matched up with like skilled players??? Admittedly I didn’t hit the link. To clarify are we talking about the drill where we set blocking dummies 5 or so yards apart jam 6 guys in there and have them slam into each other over and over?
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Post by coachfrigo on May 24, 2019 7:10:59 GMT -6
The drill in the article isn't the Oklahoma, and it's a great drill.
The Oklahoma is when two players are on their backs and get up and smash on the whistle. If they're backing a gap control drill, then holy crap...
You can say these guys already can do this stuff, but that's simply not true. Plenty of guys get to the NFL with athletic talent but not much else. Assuming they already have technique down is one of the biggest follies in the professional game. It's why the game has a pretty severe lack of good QBs. They think their draft picks already have it all figured out, but they're 20 year old kids.
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Post by cwaltsmith on May 24, 2019 7:15:29 GMT -6
Coach, as others have said i don't wanna get into a argument here at all. However, you have said twice in this post, that you have other drills that do the same thing but are better... My question is what are those drills. As said by others, this IMHO is a great drill for teaching gap control for DL, vertical push into LBs for OLINE, seeing open windows & filling them for the LB, and seeing how holes open up and how to cut into them for RBs. So what drill can I get those things accomplished all at one time in a controlled environment between kids that are matched up with like skilled players??? Admittedly I didn’t hit the link. To clarify are we talking about the drill where we set blocking dummies 5 or so yards apart jam 6 guys in there and have them slam into each other over and over? I explained the drill best I could... We have our area be about 5 yds wide approx... yes... Hopefully if we are coaching it correctly, it is much more than 6 guys slamming into each other... However, I have had people tell me that is why they don't like watching football. they say its just a bunch of guys slamming into each other chasing a stupid ball.... I think it is a little more maybe you don't
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