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Post by coachfrigo on May 24, 2019 7:18:01 GMT -6
Maybe I got my terminology wrong. All throughout my playing days, Oklahoma drill only had 2 people.
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Post by CS on May 24, 2019 7:22:07 GMT -6
Admittedly I didn’t hit the link. To clarify are we talking about the drill where we set blocking dummies 5 or so yards apart jam 6 guys in there and have them slam into each other over and over? I explained the drill best I could... We have our area be about 5 yds wide approx... yes... Hopefully if we are coaching it correctly, it is much more than 6 guys slamming into each other... However, I have had people tell me that is why they don't like watching football. they say its just a bunch of guys slamming into each other chasing a stupid ball.... I think it is a little more maybe you don't So you give the OLINE a blocking scheme?
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Post by gccwolverine on May 24, 2019 8:08:42 GMT -6
The fact of the matter is you can safely practice Run Blocking / Run Block Destruction, Reading a Block and Tackling a ball carrier in much safer and effective ways. The only thing an Okie is good for is hype. Find a drill for your athletes to compete and generate the hype. If that's your argument then I don't see how you can feel comfortable asking your kids to go play the game of football on Fridays. Either the game is to dangerous or it isn't.
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Post by cwaltsmith on May 24, 2019 8:17:41 GMT -6
I explained the drill best I could... We have our area be about 5 yds wide approx... yes... Hopefully if we are coaching it correctly, it is much more than 6 guys slamming into each other... However, I have had people tell me that is why they don't like watching football. they say its just a bunch of guys slamming into each other chasing a stupid ball.... I think it is a little more maybe you don't So you give the OLINE a blocking scheme? We tell our oline to pick a half & whip it.... this is the philosophy we have with our regular blocks so while when we call a play we predetermine the half that we whip, in the drill they pick it. Not predetermining it helps the back learn to read blocks and cut. I guess technically the OLINE predetermines it for themselves but back doesnt know. It is by far the best drill we can do to give a realistic look of what happens on Friday night in a controlled environment
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Post by coachks on May 24, 2019 9:15:19 GMT -6
If they want to ban the Oklahoma Drill in the NFL no problem to me. I can't imagine it is accomplishing very much for them to justify the risk to millionaires- most of them with lingering shoulder, knee and hip issues. The same reason I don't care that they limit how many days they can wear pads or have a scrimmage. It's like comparing grad students to 7th graders.
I can't imagine why they would ban pods or half line. Those are drills literally invented to increase safety and let you focus on teaching technique in a controlled environment.
For me, I do "Oklahoma" all the time - 1 OL vs 1 DL (or LB). But I use a tackle wheel for the runningback, because I don't want a RB trucking into my engaged defnder, or the tackle rolling up the back of the OL's leg. Is that banned too?
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Post by CS on May 24, 2019 9:51:38 GMT -6
So you give the OLINE a blocking scheme? We tell our oline to pick a half & whip it.... this is the philosophy we have with our regular blocks so while when we call a play we predetermine the half that we whip, in the drill they pick it. Not predetermining it helps the back learn to read blocks and cut. I guess technically the OLINE predetermines it for themselves but back doesnt know. It is by far the best drill we can do to give a realistic look of what happens on Friday night in a controlled environment And how does this help your dbs/wideouts etc.? The back has no clue where he is going and the LBs can’t really get a read like they would in a game. So what you are telling me is that you have the entire team do a drill that really only benefits 2 positions on the field?
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Post by 33coach on May 24, 2019 10:29:58 GMT -6
its a pretty uninspired drill, no on field relationship or application.
im good getting rid of it as a coaches community.
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Post by oldman61 on May 24, 2019 10:57:00 GMT -6
We tell our oline to pick a half & whip it.... this is the philosophy we have with our regular blocks so while when we call a play we predetermine the half that we whip, in the drill they pick it. Not predetermining it helps the back learn to read blocks and cut. I guess technically the OLINE predetermines it for themselves but back doesnt know. It is by far the best drill we can do to give a realistic look of what happens on Friday night in a controlled environment And how does this help your dbs/wideouts etc.? The back has no clue where he is going and the LBs can’t really get a read like they would in a game. So what you are telling me is that you have the entire team do a drill that really only benefits 2 positions on the field? We do at least a dozen different types of these drills. All very controlled. We use DBs and WRs. Our QBs even even hand the ball off working a “mesh” type drill. We will have our skill kids start helmet to helmet in a “difference drill” like Ohio State uses and defensively they’re expected to attack half a man just like we tell the DL. We teach Block destruction the same way to all 3 levels. WRs have to block and DBs have to block destruct. We don’t use it as a read drill for our defensive players. They normally start in a close space. We don’t like a situation where a LB or DB would come free and be able to smack the RB. They always have to beat a blocker first. The RB gets down hill quickly and has to read the leverage of his blockers in front of him... that’s pretty real zone style football IMO And to those that are saying the drill isn’t safe, I understand there is more contact because the drill is in closed space, but we believe the techniques we teach are safe.
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Post by coachks on May 24, 2019 12:06:47 GMT -6
I like a lot of stuff that is "new" - the Hawk Tackling, USA football, Tackle Wheels. We use a thud tempo about 90% of the time (I've never coached for a team that went "to the ground" more then a handful of times during camp + maybe 1 goalline period a week). I think it's a net benefit, I think it's smart I am all for reducing collisions.
But, at some point, you are creating a bigger danger. Learning how to get hit is a skill. Learning how to go to the ground is a skill. Learning how to protect yourself in contact is a skill. "Contact Courage" is a skill (not dropping your head before a big hit, not turning away and making yourself vulnerable). Controlled drills on bags are great for teaching and drilling, but there is a level a point where we have to teach kids how to hit safely at full speed. Every season I have coached I have seniors who play football for the first time (or the first time since middle school or freshman year).
So the first time these kids get hit (or do the hitting) full speed should be in a game? The first time a kid gets into a gang tackle situation and feels the pile going down should be against the other team (who presumably have experienced players). So the kid is playing receiver, catches the slant and turns upfield and gets plowed because he's never actually had the safety drive into HIM instead of just tagging off. Or some 1st year corner steps up to force the run and the RB decides to get right though his chest with his pads down? Or they don't know how to roll during the fall to protect the shoulder joint, or to get the spikes out of the ground when the pile is rolling at him?
Because those are all skills that you get when you work small groups where you know the play + assignment, you are going against similarly skilled players and you might get 3-5 reps in a row where you know where the contact is going to occur (but it is still live). You can anticipate the pileup and roll over it. Or you know where the back is comign from and can anticiapte the hit.
Way, way, way safer then when the kid is lined up at corner, trying to read his keys... is nervous that his girlfriend is watching, is thinking about what that coverage call means.... and suddenly he has to make his 3rd or 4th live tackle of his life.
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Post by agap on May 24, 2019 13:14:31 GMT -6
Why not just run half line where you actually have a scout card and the defense can align, fit, and defeat blocks correctly?
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Post by cwaltsmith on May 24, 2019 13:37:57 GMT -6
We tell our oline to pick a half & whip it.... this is the philosophy we have with our regular blocks so while when we call a play we predetermine the half that we whip, in the drill they pick it. Not predetermining it helps the back learn to read blocks and cut. I guess technically the OLINE predetermines it for themselves but back doesnt know. It is by far the best drill we can do to give a realistic look of what happens on Friday night in a controlled environment And how does this help your dbs/wideouts etc.? The back has no clue where he is going and the LBs can’t really get a read like they would in a game. So what you are telling me is that you have the entire team do a drill that really only benefits 2 positions on the field? Obviously you didnt read my entire post or just decided to quote the 1 line. I explained how we feel it benefits and gives game like situations to the LBs and RBs. Obviously we disagree... I merely ask you to give us an example of the drills you talked about teaching better game like situations that you and your team do instead... and you havent yet for some reason. As for the DBs and Wrs I agree other than maybe toughness this isnt a good drill for them. We actually do a drill we call OKLAHOMA ST. for them. Its similar, but we have a WR stalk a DB in a 5 yd wide window and have a RB take a pitch and run through it. It is a very pro offensive win drill but it helps with stalk blocking, and fighting the stalk. As far as this back and forth goes, we obviously disagree and thats ok. I simply wanted to hear about your drills you do instead. Heck I might agree that they are better if I knew what they were. Hope to maybe read about them soon. If not I guess we can agree to disagree and stop so others can try to learn something from the post.
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Post by CS on May 24, 2019 14:02:40 GMT -6
And how does this help your dbs/wideouts etc.? The back has no clue where he is going and the LBs can’t really get a read like they would in a game. So what you are telling me is that you have the entire team do a drill that really only benefits 2 positions on the field? Obviously you didnt read my entire post or just decided to quote the 1 line. I explained how we feel it benefits and gives game like situations to the LBs and RBs. Obviously we disagree... I merely ask you to give us an example of the drills you talked about teaching better game like situations that you and your team do instead... and you havent yet for some reason. As for the DBs and Wrs I agree other than maybe toughness this isnt a good drill for them. We actually do a drill we call OKLAHOMA ST. for them. Its similar, but we have a WR stalk a DB in a 5 yd wide window and have a RB take a pitch and run through it. It is a very pro offensive win drill but it helps with stalk blocking, and fighting the stalk. As far as this back and forth goes, we obviously disagree and thats ok. I simply wanted to hear about your drills you do instead. Heck I might agree that they are better if I knew what they were. Hope to maybe read about them soon. If not I guess we can agree to disagree and stop so others can try to learn something from the post. We run a sideline tackle drill with lead blockers into the end zone. It’s like an open field Oklahoma I suppose but to me more applicable for everyone. We use a dline man in front an lb is at the second level and a db at the third and widest area. Offensively we have a lineman, te/FB type and a receiver/RB running the ball. They have to score. Could also call it a pursuit angle Oklahoma. I’m not against Oklahoma drill at all though I guess it seems that way. I do however feel that saying it’s game like is ludicrous. And someone saying it’s like a zone run is dumb. I see more holds performed in this drill from every school I’ve seen doing it including when I used to do it. Putting your d and o at the 5 and running goaline plays will stir competition and actually be game like. You will probably see some big hits as well Oklahoma is a hitting drill pure and simple. Maybe you try and coach it up but you would be the minority and I still feel that running inside run drill would actually net you better results than Oklahoma if you are in fact using it as a teaching tool.
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Post by wingtol on May 24, 2019 16:27:48 GMT -6
I like a lot of stuff that is "new" - the Hawk Tackling, USA football, Tackle Wheels. We use a thud tempo about 90% of the time (I've never coached for a team that went "to the ground" more then a handful of times during camp + maybe 1 goalline period a week). I think it's a net benefit, I think it's smart I am all for reducing collisions. But, at some point, you are creating a bigger danger. Learning how to get hit is a skill. Learning how to go to the ground is a skill. Learning how to protect yourself in contact is a skill. "Contact Courage" is a skill (not dropping your head before a big hit, not turning away and making yourself vulnerable). Controlled drills on bags are great for teaching and drilling, but there is a level a point where we have to teach kids how to hit safely at full speed. Every season I have coached I have seniors who play football for the first time (or the first time since middle school or freshman year). So the first time these kids get hit (or do the hitting) full speed should be in a game? The first time a kid gets into a gang tackle situation and feels the pile going down should be against the other team (who presumably have experienced players). So the kid is playing receiver, catches the slant and turns upfield and gets plowed because he's never actually had the safety drive into HIM instead of just tagging off. Or some 1st year corner steps up to force the run and the RB decides to get right though his chest with his pads down? Or they don't know how to roll during the fall to protect the shoulder joint, or to get the spikes out of the ground when the pile is rolling at him? Because those are all skills that you get when you work small groups where you know the play + assignment, you are going against similarly skilled players and you might get 3-5 reps in a row where you know where the contact is going to occur (but it is still live). You can anticipate the pileup and roll over it. Or you know where the back is comign from and can anticiapte the hit. Way, way, way safer then when the kid is lined up at corner, trying to read his keys... is nervous that his girlfriend is watching, is thinking about what that coverage call means.... and suddenly he has to make his 3rd or 4th live tackle of his life. This. All day long. Tried to say this myself but couldn't get it to sound this good.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 21:41:51 GMT -6
We did it this spring a couple times and one of our players got a severe broken leg. I think it’s pointless and physicality and tackling can be achieved in more smarter, efficient, and safe ways
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Post by CS on May 25, 2019 5:53:18 GMT -6
We did it this spring a couple times and one of our players got a severe broken leg. I think it’s pointless and physicality and tackling can be achieved in more smarter, efficient, and safe ways Was he a player and did a booger eater do it?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 7:15:10 GMT -6
We did it this spring a couple times and one of our players got a severe broken leg. I think it’s pointless and physicality and tackling can be achieved in more smarter, efficient, and safe ways Was he a player and did a booger eater do it? Haha na the booger eater was the one that got hurt but still
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Post by fantom on May 25, 2019 7:28:28 GMT -6
Something that we need to understand is that these drills are going away as much because of time as for safety. NFL training camps used to last for eight weeks with two or three practices a day and six pre-season games. Colleges spent a month in spring ball and did two or three practices a day during pre-season. HS two-a-days lasted two or three weeks.
Now, the CBA limits the amount of time and contact that NFL teams can have. NCAA and Federation restrictions do the same in college and HS. There just isn't enough time to spend (Waste, IMO) on drills that don't have a direct application toward preparing for the next opponent.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2019 7:47:17 GMT -6
Something that we need to understand is that these drills are going away as much because of time as for safety. NFL training camps used to last for eight weeks with two or three practices a day and six pre-season games. Colleges spent a month in spring ball and did two or three practices a day during pre-season. HS two-a-days lasted two or three weeks. Now, the CBA limits the amount of time and contact that NFL teams can have. NCAA and Federation restrictions do the same in college and HS. There just isn't enough time to spend (Waste, IMO) on drills that don't have a direct application toward preparing for the next opponent. Great points. Also, does anyone else find it a little odd that on a board filled with threads on RPOs, zone blocking rotations, count schemes, skip pulling technique, track/angle blocking, double team techniques, combo block techniques, reading defenders, defensive line slant technique, LB reading OL or Backs or a combination of both, BDSD DL technique... etc ...people are discussing a drill that puts an OL and a DL essentially nose to nose in a base block situation with a ball carrier following right behind in a 5-6 foot corridor that begins on a coaches command instead of a snap count?
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Post by CS on May 25, 2019 7:52:27 GMT -6
Something that we need to understand is that these drills are going away as much because of time as for safety. NFL training camps used to last for eight weeks with two or three practices a day and six pre-season games. Colleges spent a month in spring ball and did two or three practices a day during pre-season. HS two-a-days lasted two or three weeks. Now, the CBA limits the amount of time and contact that NFL teams can have. NCAA and Federation restrictions do the same in college and HS. There just isn't enough time to spend (Waste, IMO) on drills that don't have a direct application toward preparing for the next opponent. Great points. Also, does anyone else find it a little odd that on a board filled with threads on RPOs, zone blocking rotations, count schemes, skip pulling technique, track/angle blocking, double team techniques, combo block techniques, reading defenders, defensive line slant technique, LB reading OL or Backs or a combination of both, BDSD DL technique... etc ...people are discussing a drill that puts an OL and a DL essentially nose to nose in a base block situation with a ball carrier following right behind in a 5-6 foot corridor that begins on a coaches command instead of a snap count? But it’s game like??
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Post by CS on May 25, 2019 8:03:03 GMT -6
and you cant see how blocking and tackling days are numbered and at that less than 5 years. I see your 5 years and say that it will be done in 4.5 years. Bunch of phuking cream puffs on this board. I remember when men were men and so were the women
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Post by coachks on May 25, 2019 11:33:51 GMT -6
Something that we need to understand is that these drills are going away as much because of time as for safety. NFL training camps used to last for eight weeks with two or three practices a day and six pre-season games. Colleges spent a month in spring ball and did two or three practices a day during pre-season. HS two-a-days lasted two or three weeks. Now, the CBA limits the amount of time and contact that NFL teams can have. NCAA and Federation restrictions do the same in college and HS. There just isn't enough time to spend (Waste, IMO) on drills that don't have a direct application toward preparing for the next opponent. Great points. Also, does anyone else find it a little odd that on a board filled with threads on RPOs, zone blocking rotations, count schemes, skip pulling technique, track/angle blocking, double team techniques, combo block techniques, reading defenders, defensive line slant technique, LB reading OL or Backs or a combination of both, BDSD DL technique... etc ...people are discussing a drill that puts an OL and a DL essentially nose to nose in a base block situation with a ball carrier following right behind in a 5-6 foot corridor that begins on a coaches command instead of a snap count? I think most people who are against this announcement don't care so much about the Oklahoma and Bull in the Ring drills, and a lot more about Half-line, Pod Work and the general movement towards demonizing contact.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2019 11:50:55 GMT -6
Great points. Also, does anyone else find it a little odd that on a board filled with threads on RPOs, zone blocking rotations, count schemes, skip pulling technique, track/angle blocking, double team techniques, combo block techniques, reading defenders, defensive line slant technique, LB reading OL or Backs or a combination of both, BDSD DL technique... etc ...people are discussing a drill that puts an OL and a DL essentially nose to nose in a base block situation with a ball carrier following right behind in a 5-6 foot corridor that begins on a coaches command instead of a snap count? I think most people who are against this announcement don't care so much about the Oklahoma and Bull in the Ring drills, and a lot more about Half-line, Pod Work and the general movement towards demonizing contact. But is that what is being discussed? Are people floating the ideas of not using Half Line and Pod work?
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Post by CS on May 25, 2019 13:06:09 GMT -6
I'll ask Coach Kell to ATTACH one we like. MAYBE if we called it a "PANSY DRILL" it would be more acceptable to the "faint of heart"! We already renamed our "TOSS-TACKLE" DRILL to "TOSS-TICKLE" DRILL to suit the bleeding-heart liberals (changed the name but NOT the Drill). You would probably get in more trouble calling it the pansy drill then if you called it the concussionator. I think renaming drills like the toss-tickle is just as dramatic as the so called bleeding heart liberals you say that it appeases. On a side note: getting rid of pods is dumb at any level. Half line at the NFL level and any school that can film everything is pointless. If you’re at a small school with 25 kids on the team you probably need half line for some good on good action. If you’re at a larger school but have no filmers I can see half line being good. Any large high school and up I don’t see the need
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Post by CS on May 25, 2019 13:52:04 GMT -6
When do they go after the tackle? Next spring? Thud tackle? Man we got rid of water and mouth pieces and we start every practice with blood alley!!! If those little sissy’s want water they can go and join the cheerleading squad!!! If they ask us why they can’t have water we give them some Pom Poms and a giant binky and have the kids take turns punching them in the arm. There are none of those soft a$$ pu$$ies allowed out on the mans field. YEAH!!!
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Post by bobgoodman on May 25, 2019 16:13:21 GMT -6
Something that we need to understand is that these drills are going away as much because of time as for safety. NFL training camps used to last for eight weeks with two or three practices a day and six pre-season games. Colleges spent a month in spring ball and did two or three practices a day during pre-season. HS two-a-days lasted two or three weeks. Now, the CBA limits the amount of time and contact that NFL teams can have. NCAA and Federation restrictions do the same in college and HS. There just isn't enough time to spend (Waste, IMO) on drills that don't have a direct application toward preparing for the next opponent. Great points. Also, does anyone else find it a little odd that on a board filled with threads on RPOs, zone blocking rotations, count schemes, skip pulling technique, track/angle blocking, double team techniques, combo block techniques, reading defenders, defensive line slant technique, LB reading OL or Backs or a combination of both, BDSD DL technique... etc ...people are discussing a drill that puts an OL and a DL essentially nose to nose in a base block situation with a ball carrier following right behind in a 5-6 foot corridor that begins on a coaches command instead of a snap count? I don't find it odd. All drills isolate or simulate something. I couldn't keep count of the number of times players have asked about a drill, "Why can't I [...]? I'd be allowed to during a game." The only way to practice with everything's being realistic at once would be an entire practice game -- even scrimmages aren't the whole thing.
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Post by coachks on May 25, 2019 21:16:40 GMT -6
I think most people who are against this announcement don't care so much about the Oklahoma and Bull in the Ring drills, and a lot more about Half-line, Pod Work and the general movement towards demonizing contact. But is that what is being discussed? Are people floating the ideas of not using Half Line and Pod work? Half line and Pod are on the list of drills banned in the NFL now.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2019 21:59:59 GMT -6
But is that what is being discussed? Are people floating the ideas of not using Half Line and Pod work? Half line and Pod are on the list of drills banned in the NFL now. Didn't see that in the article, but I did see it mentioned in some tweets. Part of me thinks that maybe the reporters are using words incorrectly because as mentioned, Half line and other pod work are useful drills. I think while the Oklahome/bull in the ring drill was banned in hopes that the action trickles down to lower levels, I think that would be a mistake for the other drills.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 6:15:45 GMT -6
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Post by bobgoodman on May 26, 2019 8:45:30 GMT -6
But is that what is being discussed? Are people floating the ideas of not using Half Line and Pod work? Half line and Pod are on the list of drills banned in the NFL now. I don't know what Pod is, but it's implausible to me that a NFL team, with all their players and coaches, would ever want to do half-lines, so maybe they meant something else.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 26, 2019 8:56:03 GMT -6
Half line and Pod are on the list of drills banned in the NFL now. I don't know what Pod is, but it's implausible to me that a NFL team, with all their players and coaches, would ever want to do half-lines, so maybe they meant something else. Why? Half line is a valuable way to get point of attack reps
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