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Post by jackedup on Aug 7, 2006 20:35:36 GMT -6
The school I'm at has 82 freshman signed up to play with another 50 on JV and another 60 on varsity. Now we do not have the resources to equip all those players let alone the coaches to make sure they are getting the reps and coaching they need to develop. Therefore we have decided to cut on all three levels, trying to keep better younger players than bad upper classmen. Therefore, I'm trying to set a criteria for cutting a player or even better off, a criteria for keeping a player.
Does anyone have a checklist they use or some type of format they use when deciding who to cut and who to keep? Just curious....
Thanks
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Post by toprowguy on Aug 7, 2006 20:54:11 GMT -6
We have about the same numbers but we are not allowed to cut. Tough to cut kids who have never played before or to evaluate kids without them having equipment on. I wish we could cut based on wrokout attendance but since workouts are voluntary can't do that. Maybe you can cut somekids based on school behavior or school grades.
But the best way to cut players is to make practice so hard that they begin to drop off.
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Post by jackedup on Aug 7, 2006 21:08:00 GMT -6
Toprowguy,
I agree 100%. I would love to cut based on workout attendance. But we too are not allowed to make workouts mandatory. We thought last year that kids would just naturally quit because it was hard, blah, blah, blah... We were wrong because they didn't get their equipment until late and they didn't have time to beat each other up... But thanks.
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Post by tog on Aug 7, 2006 22:58:57 GMT -6
keep as many out as possible
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Post by bulldog on Aug 7, 2006 23:16:28 GMT -6
I would only cut kids who cannot protect themselves.
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Post by wildcat on Aug 8, 2006 5:31:27 GMT -6
The school I'm at has 82 freshman signed up to play with another 50 on JV and another 60 on varsity. Now we do not have the resources to equip all those players let alone the coaches to make sure they are getting the reps and coaching they need to develop. Therefore we have decided to cut on all three levels, trying to keep better younger players than bad upper classmen. Therefore, I'm trying to set a criteria for cutting a player or even better off, a criteria for keeping a player. Does anyone have a checklist they use or some type of format they use when deciding who to cut and who to keep? Just curious.... Thanks Coach - That is a tough spot to be in...shame on your administration for not equipping every kid who wants to play... We were in a similar situation last year...had about ten kids come out who we didn't have equipment for...administration balked at buying extra gear, so we told the administrators and school board, "OK, fine...then YOU pick the ten kids who are going to get cut because we don't have enough gear". Needless to say, we got the extra gear. IMO, I find it inexcuseable to cut a kid simply because there is not enough gear for them. How much gear are you short? Is there anyway the boosters or a fundraiser or anything else can fill the gap? Tough spot, Coach...I feel for you...cuts should NEVER have to be made in HS football. |
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Post by jackedup on Aug 8, 2006 5:54:10 GMT -6
Thanks Wildcat,
I agree... and this is the first school I've been at that we've had to cut. Normally, it's the other way around. We're in the school searching for players. But my issue besides the equipment, is playing time and coaching. With only 2-3 coaches on the lower levels, doesn't it seem like too many to give each one quality reps? And what about those that are good? Aren't we impeding their progress by limiting their reps in practice and in the game? Just questions that have arisen.
Thanks for the insight guys... it's appreciated!
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Post by spreadattack on Aug 8, 2006 7:14:46 GMT -6
Wildcat makes a great point, before you cut kids who are hauling ass (excusing lazy ones), play it off the admin and see if you can't get what you need from them.
The number of coaches you have is a problem too, and reps will be limited for some kids. To some extent I'd maybe just be honest with the kids. That some may not get equipment, some may not get many reps, and we will work you all extremely hard. Let attrition sort of them out, but not with any kind of sneaky tactics, just the kids who want to play football will get to play.
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Post by tog on Aug 8, 2006 7:15:06 GMT -6
those ones that aren't real good right now can turn out to be the studs later through hard work
you can still get good reps with those numbers, it is going to take some creativity and hard work on the coaches part, I would be fighting like crazy to keep those numbers, and to keep every kid out for football. ALWAYS
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Post by coachjd on Aug 8, 2006 7:15:26 GMT -6
IMO, this is poor on your admin and school board not to get equipment for these kids. I just think of how many programs are struggling to get kids out, and you guys have a great situation where kids want to be apart of the program and you cannot provide them an opportunity to be apart of the program. Even if they are not the best player, there is a lot each one of these young men can learn by being involved in the program.
We are in the same situation with our 9th grade. We have never had over 25 kids out for our 9th grade team, this year we have 40+ and showed our AD and principal that we don't have enough helmets or shoulder pads. Within 2 days they gave us the go ahead to order 24 DNA helmets and 24 shoulder pads.
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Post by texas21 on Aug 8, 2006 7:24:20 GMT -6
Why not try to set up some community fundraiser? (If money is the issue on not having the equipment)
As far as being understaffed, look around for local colleges and Universities. (talk to the athletics department and find out about guys that want to be coaches) There are a lot of guys out there that really want to get experience under their belt, and work with kids. When you bring them on tell them- "this is how I want things done, do these drills with these kids."
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Post by topaztec on Aug 8, 2006 7:36:35 GMT -6
Good point texas21. I wish I had that many kids to work with, too bad I don't. We have to recruit every year so that we can have enough on a team. Good luck coach.....
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Post by wildcat on Aug 8, 2006 9:45:38 GMT -6
But my issue besides the equipment, is playing time and coaching. With only 2-3 coaches on the lower levels, doesn't it seem like too many to give each one quality reps? And what about those that are good? Aren't we impeding their progress by limiting their reps in practice and in the game? Just questions that have arisen. Coach - What are the chances of recruiting some more coaches? Any junior high coaches willing to move up and help out? How many coaches do you guys have altogether? I agree that having 6 guys for almost 200 kids is pretty monumental. That's about the number of kids we had in high school, but we had 4 freshman coaches, 4 F-S coaches, and 5-6 varsity coaches. With those kinds of numbers, I would be doing everything I could to keep all of those kids out...cuts would be the very last thing I would do after exhausting all other options. |
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Post by jackedup on Aug 8, 2006 11:15:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback guys,
We've spoken with a local D3 college and they have agreed to help us with some pads and helmets. Also, being in MD we went to the Ravens who donated 4 dozen pair of recently used cleats (training camp cleats). So, it looks like the equipment part is being handled. It'll come close but I have faith to think it will be handled.
The coaches aspect is a tough one. It seems that there are a number of schools in the county that are suffering from a lack of volunteers. See, we are the worst paying county in the state. To go along with it, there is an overall sense from the Board that they are not pro sports... any sports. In our school of 1800, we only have 3 football coaches in the building and 7 total (all sports) coaches in the building. I like the idea about the colleges. I think I'll give the college a call to their student teacher department and see if there are any football players that have used up their eligibility.
Again, thanks for the feedback.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Aug 8, 2006 15:05:09 GMT -6
Another few possibilities:
1. Is there a possibility of having a freshman A and B team (even if the B team gets 2-3 games... it might help keep kids out)? We did this when I was at a large school with about 75 freshmen out. It helped a lot (but took us 4 years to implement).
2. Double duty for coaches. We have to do this at a small school. This is a tough sell, but can be done- even if on a rotational basis. I am the HC for the varsity. JV is with us, so technically, I am the JV HC as well. I am also the JH coach. Our scheduling allows this to happen (JH practice is the last period of the school day). A school 35 mi. from here had two coaches for basketball. The boys HC was the girls assistant. The girls HC was the boys asst. One practiced in the AM, one in the PM. Not ideal, and a sure way to get coaches burned out if that goes on too long...
There was a thread about this several pages back (from May or June) about small school coaches/lack of staff. Though you are a big school, this is kind of a small school problem... some of the stuff on there might help
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Post by airman on Aug 8, 2006 16:35:16 GMT -6
personally, i think cutting fr and sophs is like biting the hand whic feeds you.
if any grade should go it would be jr and srs.
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Post by jackedup on Aug 8, 2006 17:25:03 GMT -6
Senator,
That's an interesting idea. 2 teams that split the schedule might benefit everyone involved. My only concern is that we have a pay to play rule where the kids have to pay $60.00 to the county. This cost covers busses, officials, etc. I'm just wondering how this might be effected if they are only playing 1/2 the games. Thanks for the idea...
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Post by groundchuck on Aug 8, 2006 18:37:39 GMT -6
Good ideas guys. What a shame the admin has to be such thingys and force you to make those kinds of decisions. Football is a numbers game and you need every kid who wants to be there. As for ideas these guys stole all of mine as I am getting to this thread late.  Keep us posted. |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Aug 8, 2006 20:56:47 GMT -6
That's an interesting idea. 2 teams that split the schedule might benefit everyone involved. My only concern is that we have a pay to play rule where the kids have to pay $60.00 to the county. This cost covers busses, officials, etc. I'm just wondering how this might be effected if they are only playing 1/2 the games. Thanks for the idea...
That might work too... actually though what we did was have 2 separate schedules. We were a 5A school- our freshman A played 8 games vs. 4A and 5A frosh teams. Our freshman B played two 3 A schools... and played two 5A B teams twice (6 games total). That would be really hard (impossible perhaps) to set up now at this late date. Still, I'm an AD, and we added some lover level sub-varsity games to basketball last year in mid season... so it can be done IF you can find other schools who are willing.
The problem is scheduling becomes a nightmare... we would usually play the freshman B games on Tuesdays (A on Monday). The Volleyball, soccer, etc. teams were upset because it was THEIR night... so some diplomacy is needed if you venture in to this. Plus, depending on your practice field situation, it is tough to give up, say, defensive practice day on the big field.
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Post by davecisar on Aug 12, 2006 5:34:48 GMT -6
Coach,
I would hope you could do everything under your power to keep as many kids as possible. Speaking from experience if you would have had any kind of criteria at all I would not have been able to play HS football. In Nebraska in the 70s there was not frosh ball, the frosh were still in Jr Highs then. I had played 6 years of midget ball , all weight restricted and started etc. As a Soph I come in at about 120 lbs and not terribly fast. We were in biggest class, had 50 kids on the Soph team but only 40 game jerseys, so I had to wait until enough kids quit to suit up for a game ( 5th game) I never missed a practice or complained and played 1 play that season ( also worked). I hit the weights on my own the day after practice ended, to make a long story short I ended up being a starter on varsity and scored the winning TD with less than a minute remaining in our homecoming game. Played Division II College football. I didnt look like a player, but I wanted to play and I worked to make it happen. NEver would have got the chance under a "cut" system. Many many better atheletes than me quit but none worked harder or listened more intently.
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Post by davecisar on Aug 12, 2006 5:37:17 GMT -6
Here in Nebraska, Millard North High School splits their Forsh teams into 2 seperate teams.
Im sure the kids former Youth Coaches would be glad to help as assistants of you split your squad.
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Post by blb on Aug 12, 2006 6:51:17 GMT -6
Never cut a kid. They only cut themselves by being ineligible, violating training rules, missing practice, or in rare instances, not being able to protect themselves.
If administration refuses to equip every kid who comes out, I would get parents, boosters' club, board members, media involved until they did the right thing.
If we believe in the intrinsic, educational values of participating in high school football, how can we justify denying kids the opportunity? BTW, this includes turning kids away based on what they do (or don't do) in the "off-season."
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Keep us posted.
