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Post by groundchuck on Feb 14, 2019 15:54:44 GMT -6
I've coached with a fair number of guys who were standouts in high school and college at their positions but they weren't good at coaching them. They were exceptional athletes that picked up on the skills within the position they played quickly when playing. As such, they struggled to work with your average high school level player because they couldn't figure out that the skills weren't going to come to those kids as easily as it did to them.
Yes I know coaches who were outstanding players and they struggle coaching because they don't understand how the average high school kid can't "just do it". They don't invest enough time in he drill work to teach and help the player reach his ceiling.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2019 22:02:46 GMT -6
So seriously..is nobody going to say what everyone is thinking? Who voted yes?
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Post by spartan on Feb 14, 2019 22:12:45 GMT -6
No Ask Bill Belicheck, and I don't care if someone already said this I'm not reading thru all these pages.
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Post by s73 on Feb 14, 2019 22:55:02 GMT -6
No.
And I would argue that most famous great coaches weren't great players (BB, Lombardi, Walsh, Parcels, Phil Jackson).
I think that point intertwines w/ the OP b/c I believe many great players struggle as coaches b/c certain things just came natural to them.
But a person who was not a great player (relatively speaking) needs to pay attention to every detail imaginable to compete. I think that cerebral approach helps them when they become coaches and it can be applied to coaching a team, individual, position, etc.
With that said, no reason someone can't work through the details of another position and coach it well. Might even do a better job than they do of the position they played b/c they may have to spend extra time and thought into the process.
JMO.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2019 1:10:27 GMT -6
No. And I would argue that most famous great coaches weren't great players (BB, Lombardi, Walsh, Parcels, Phil Jackson). I think that point intertwines w/ the OP b/c I believe many great players struggle as coaches b/c certain things just came natural to them. But a person who was not a great player (relatively speaking) needs to pay attention to every detail imaginable to compete. I think that cerebral approach helps them when they become coaches and it can be applied to coaching a team, individual, position, etc. With that said, no reason someone can't work through the details of another position and coach it well. Might even do a better job than they do of the position they played b/c they may have to spend extra time and thought into the process. JMO. Didn’t Phil Jackson play for the Knicks?
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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Feb 15, 2019 6:40:06 GMT -6
Didn’t Phil Jackson play for the Knicks?
He did but was not "great," more of a role player (averaged 18 minutes a game). Never made All-Star team.
I don't know, avergaging 18 minutes in the NBA seems pretty great to me. Compared to the rest of the NBA? Maybe not great, but saying that an NBA player is not a great basketball player (since we are talking about great coaches donät have to have been great players) might be a bit harsch. Kinda like saying Harbaugh was not a great QB, IMO. Edit: missed the qoutation marks in your comment. Nevermind
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 15, 2019 7:13:44 GMT -6
I understand the point, but Phil Jackson or any professional athlete really shouldn't be labeled not a great player even if you used quotations. You have to be pretty damn good to get that far. He wasn't a great NBA player, but that's not what we are talking about.
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Post by s73 on Feb 15, 2019 8:15:25 GMT -6
No. And I would argue that most famous great coaches weren't great players (BB, Lombardi, Walsh, Parcels, Phil Jackson). I think that point intertwines w/ the OP b/c I believe many great players struggle as coaches b/c certain things just came natural to them. But a person who was not a great player (relatively speaking) needs to pay attention to every detail imaginable to compete. I think that cerebral approach helps them when they become coaches and it can be applied to coaching a team, individual, position, etc. With that said, no reason someone can't work through the details of another position and coach it well. Might even do a better job than they do of the position they played b/c they may have to spend extra time and thought into the process. JMO. Didn’t Phil Jackson play for the Knicks? Yes. Bench warmer. That's why I inserted the "relatively speaking". He was not great relatively speaking.
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Post by s73 on Feb 15, 2019 8:26:41 GMT -6
I understand the point, but Phil Jackson or any professional athlete really shouldn't be labeled not a great player even if you used quotations. You have to be pretty damn good to get that far. He wasn't a great NBA player, but that's not what we are talking about. With all due respect, I think you are completely missing the point of the OP as well as my post. THE POINT was, do you have to play a position to coach it. MY POINT was no. I used famously great coaches to point out many of them never played certain positions or even levels that they coached at. PJ I used as an example b/c frankly what can he show MJ physically, or even mentally? His greatness w/ those & his Lakers teams was his ability to manage personalities. So....for the LEVEL he coached at he was not going to earn MJ / Kobe or Shaq's respect based on his playing career. He needed to bring something OTHER than that to the table & he did. He won them over w/ his cerebral approach (hence nickname the Zen master). But again, none of this really the point of the OP. Again, point is anybody can coach any position if they take the time to learn it & teach it properly. JMO.
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Post by s73 on Feb 15, 2019 8:37:50 GMT -6
Exactly! I was on a staff once that had 5 ex-nfl guys, and an additional 2 who played big time FBS but never made it to the league. Good guys, some could coach others couldn't, but I think as coaches most of us realize that playing and coaching are two different things. That being written, having those guys on staff sure attracted a LOT of talent to the school
I've coached against three teams that had ex-NFL'ers as their HC and none of them could coach high school ball to save their life. It's always funny to see them come in with a big splash and act like they're going to maul everybody only to get destroyed. There's a local team that is HC'd by a former NFL linebacker and he came in making bold predictions about how he was going to make his school the linebacker Mecca, he's on twitter & instagram all day/every day telling people how awesome his program & kids are. Meanwhile his team is bad and his linebackers are awful. I watched a few of their games and they were a joke.
The 1st play off victory of my career as a HC I beat a pretty well know NFL guy. He was actually pretty down to Earth but his staff was obnoxious.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2019 8:50:21 GMT -6
Didn’t Phil Jackson play for the Knicks? Yes. Bench warmer. That's why I inserted the "relatively speaking". He was not great relatively speaking. I got you. I wasn't sure how good he was but I read a couple of his books and remember he played for a while. I do agree with your point though.
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Post by pvillecoach on Feb 16, 2019 9:26:10 GMT -6
I was a GA at a D1 school years ago. The guy I considered the best coach on staff coached DL. In college, he played...2nd base! He definitely never played a single play of football with his hand in the ground either. Oddly enough, the guy we GAs thought to be the goofiest and worst coach on staff was the only one to go on to the NFL.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 16, 2019 12:04:12 GMT -6
Seriously though...did someone misclick? How inexperienced are the two coaches that voted yes?
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Post by mattharris75 on Feb 16, 2019 15:42:42 GMT -6
Seriously though...did someone misclick? How inexperienced are the two coaches that voted yes? Would be nice to know who they were just so we could go ahead and disregard any future opinions they may have in advance.
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