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Post by coachboss on Feb 27, 2008 12:24:19 GMT -6
Are there any coaches that have experience coaching at a small school (k-12 type of small school). I would like to know what to know what could be expected of such a small place ... all opinions are welcome. Good or bad, few athetes, few coaches, everyone going both ways.
What size school is best to coach at? small, medium, large .. i know each is different in its own way but in general.
I have only coached at medium size schools and am very curious that I am exploring my options
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coachpodach
Freshmen Member
We're on a mission from God...
Posts: 69
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Post by coachpodach on Feb 27, 2008 12:44:20 GMT -6
coach, I am an assistant at a small school in Ohio. (65 boys in 9-12th grades) You will find at time you need to get creative at practice, maybe scrimmaging offense as half line. The main challenge we have as a staff is keeping participation numbers up. Some coaches preach to elimnate those who aren't totally commited. I see the wisdom in this, but this is not always an option with 25-30 kids out year to year. We try to handle everything with "velvet gloves" as not to run to many kids off. The larger schools may have big numbers, but how many schools can say that 46% of the enrolled males are playing football? We were in a situatiuon last year in which our left guard left the game with a concussion, and we had no choice but to sub in our second string QB(5'8" 180lbs)for him. Y'all laugh  , but this young man stepped up and met the challenge. Continued to play there the rest of season. The choice was simple, and we are only successful when we have our best players on the field...Did that sound like a maddenism? In a nutshell, think outside the box and insist on a LOYAL staff over "knowledgeble" staff. Be on the same page. Good luck! |
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Post by fatkicker on Feb 27, 2008 13:02:42 GMT -6
coaching small ball is fun.....i think....
we had a tailback go down.....put in the 2nd teamer and he was having an awesome year....... when 1st teamer got healthy, he returned and promptly moved to tight end.....
starting guard went down...moved fullback to guard and 2nd tight end to fullback.....
it's like chess on a giant board......you may have to move 5 pieces if one man goes down....
you will find that most all of these kids are harder workers and are in better shape than big school kids........ i had 7 kids that walked on the field after the national anthem and didn't walk off the field until the final horn.........
i don't think i've had 4 5A kids (that i coached in big ball) that could do that.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 13:13:39 GMT -6
Along the same lines, never rule any kid out. No kid is too big/small/slow/dumb/etc. to help you out.
Most starters are the back up at 2-3 other positions so the schemes have to reflect what they can mentally handle in that situation.
Special teams can be a challenge. Gettting enough kids to fill out a kickoff team when the offense comes off the field after a 15 play drive and is gassed can be a challenge. Moreso than filling the offense and defensive line-ups.
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Post by coachboss on Feb 27, 2008 13:21:16 GMT -6
How are the coaching responsibilities broken down? Does the coaching become jack of all trades, master of none .... or do you feel with less kids you are able to really focus on the reps and mastering the material ....
I appreciate the stories and help ..... would you choose a small school, medium, or large if given the choice?
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Post by fatkicker on Feb 27, 2008 13:35:48 GMT -6
given the choice.......how about small school numbers with a big school budget.....ha
in our league, small generally means rural....as far as that goes i'd rather teach the "country" kid over the "street" kid.......rural kids (for the most part) still respect authority and rules......of course most of 'em haul hay or pulp wood during the summer.....so they are taught well....
as far as coaching duties go, you'll find that you may have to water down your schemes a little bit......as one coach said earlier, you may have 1 linebacker as the backup at 4 different positions.....so you may not be able to put in 6 different defensive checks based on down and distance and formation......
and you may only have 2 or 3 coaches on staff......most of whom will be teaching most of the day, so you may have to cut practice short one day to get the grass cut before it rains and get the field painted.....you don't get much rest, but you are so busy you don't notice it....
small ball is fun....
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 27, 2008 13:37:37 GMT -6
coaching iron man football is great. i think the biggest challenge is to get the whole staff on the same page both offensively and defensively. the coaches have to be interchangable as well. You would definitely get to know you players better.
I worked at a school that was small, 340 grades 6-12. We always had great numbers. One year I had an unusually large number on the JV, about 35 (grades 7-9) I 2 platooned them. I had a "Blue" team and a "Gold" team (team colors). One was strong in the offensive and defensive lines, the other was filled with my best skill players. Both groups learned the offense and the defense. I played them by quarters I.E. Gold would be the offense 1st & 3rd quarters and the Blue was the defense. They switched roles in quarters 2 & 4.
It was a great way to get them involved and also allowed me to throw a change of pace at the other team since one groups was better at running the ball and the other I did a lot more passing.
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coachpodach
Freshmen Member
We're on a mission from God...
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Post by coachpodach on Feb 27, 2008 14:27:20 GMT -6
Another word of advise when dealing with hiring a staff. Beware of the first people that want to jump on board. We have learned through experience that these are generally dads, or ex-players who have some underlying motive. Not saying that all do, but as I have learned from moving quite a bit, generally those who want to cling to you and be "friends" right away have some sort of an agenda. I really hate making general statements, but have found this to be quite true. I was promoted from JH staff to Varsity five years ago with the hiring of a new coach. We spent the first two years "getting the rats out of the woodpile". I haven't often wondered if we would have been farther ahead to hire school teacher with no coaching experience and teach them "our way". I'll jump off my soapbox now...
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Post by knighter on Feb 27, 2008 17:02:39 GMT -6
As the head coach of 2 small schools (and now even CA is not that large) I can say that a flexible staff is vital, schemes need to be simple and concise because at pointed out already one kid could be a backup at 3 or 4 other spots. For 4 years I was the OC and RB coach offensively (while being the head coach) and was also the DB coach defensively. Kept my fingers out of the pie defensively after game plan was installed on Sunday. The next 3 years I was the OC and OL coach (due to my DC/OL coach becoming the OL coach at a college). Hired a new DC to replace him and he became the RB coach and DB coach as well, so defensively I moved to coach LB's. Again flexibility of staff is vital, as you never know when someone will move to greener pastures.
Now at CA I have 125 kids who try out for football, roster is whittled by kids quitting to about 85. We 2 platoon everywhere. Fresh/Soph, JV, Varsity all have a new 11 on the field with a change of possession. It is a great way to keep kids rested, and to "specialize" a little. Also nice to be able to have 4 days of offensive practice and 4 days of defensive practice (allows us to improve more). In other situation we had on offensive day (tuesday) a defensive day (wednesday) and 2 walk through of both days (M and TH). Also had those 2 days to iron out special teams play.
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Post by coachweav88 on Feb 27, 2008 18:44:14 GMT -6
I agree with knighter that the schemes need to be simple and flexible. At our school (less thatn 250 kids) what I noticed is that adjustments are more about putting the right kid in the right spot rather than x's and o's. Since I've been there, we've had very little change in our schemes, but the focus in the offseason is more about who's playing where.
You have to be flexible at practice too (half line etc.). It's not any easier or less complicated coaching at a small school because of the limited resources you have to work with (talent, $$).
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Post by mwpilots on Feb 27, 2008 19:41:03 GMT -6
Another word of advise when dealing with hiring a staff. Beware of the first people that want to jump on board. We have learned through experience that these are generally dads, or ex-players who have some underlying motive. Not saying that all do, but as I have learned from moving quite a bit, generally those who want to cling to you and be "friends" right away have some sort of an agenda. I really hate making general statements, but have found this to be quite true. I was promoted from JH staff to Varsity five years ago with the hiring of a new coach. We spent the first two years "getting the rats out of the woodpile". I haven't often wondered if we would have been farther ahead to hire school teacher with no coaching experience and teach them "our way". I'll jump off my soapbox now... I have had the same experience with dads when I ran a little league team. That led me to this rule:No dad can coach on the level that his son plays.That seems to cut that out real quick and it also gives them a chance to watch their son and be a parent. |
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go42
Sophomore Member
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Post by go42 on Feb 28, 2008 6:55:44 GMT -6
our school is very small 160 (9-12). On our varsity team we have had 16, 16, & 14 players the past three years. It makes it very difficult at times to practice due to the small numbers, but it also allows kids who would never get to play a bigger school a chance to experience the game. We have been conference champions that past two years with our only two losses coming to a rival who has played in 4 state championship games.....Based on my experiences at a very small school: it is about matchups. Can you put your good guy against their crappy guy? And how well can you hide your crappy guy(s).
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Post by gschwender on Feb 28, 2008 7:08:38 GMT -6
One thing to consider too is that at a small school, most of the kids who play football play basketball, and track/baseball. It is tough when trying to get numbers in the weight room in the offseason. Get with your other coaches in other sports and try to get on the same page as far as weight training. Try to get them on an offseason program for those who are not inseason in a particular sport and get the other coaches to buy in to an inseason weight training program and all will benefit.
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mustang
Probationary Member
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Post by mustang on Feb 28, 2008 7:36:47 GMT -6
I agree with the above. Scheme sometimes messed the kids up more than just alignment. Alignment in the right spot help 90% of the time. If we tried to do too much, we as coaches put them in a bad spot, hindsight stuff now.
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Post by coachcastleman on Feb 28, 2008 7:54:28 GMT -6
I coach at a school of 190 students and I agree with much of what has been said. We average about 35 guys on the team. Be flexible and willing to change based on the talent the you have or not have in some cases. Working with the other coaches is crucial. Most kids play two or three sports so be creative in finding ways to get them in the weight room and speed agility training in the "off season".
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 28, 2008 7:55:29 GMT -6
I played at one of the smallest schools in the state to have a football team, and I was a HC for 5 seasons at a very small school as well.
Some thoughts:
Depth is a problem. Your #2 QB might be your starting TB. Making sure he has "enough" reps to be competant at QB is a challenge. Also b/c of depth you have to be creative at times in practice. Be willing to go half-line when running team. If a kid gets injured it can screw your depth chart on offense, defense, and all special teams so limit live tackling in practice once the season starts. Oh, and keep'm eligible. Nothing hurt us like losing 2-3 kids at the mid-quarter.
At a small school sometimes the kids feel like they have you by the by the balls too. I mean let's say you have 30 kids 9-12 playing football. Again b/c of depth your 230# stud OL/DL may feel he does not need to work hard in practice b/c he's going to start anyway. You cannot be afraid to get after him. You also cannot be afraid to run off cancers. I would rather go to a game with 16 kids who would die (not literally of course) for eachother than 17 and have one malignant tumor on the sideline.
Stars: Every small school has 1-2 studs. Those guys cancel eachother out. You win with the other 9 guys on the field so be sure to bring up the weakest links in the chain.
Keep it simple on offense and defense. Not too simple but they will have a lot on thier plates playing O/D/ and special teams.
This is true for all levels but if you can exploit special teams. sometimes that is the best way to get your best athlete the ball in space. I knew many of my opponents did not play thier best kids on kickoff. So....I played my best 11 on kickoff return hoping we could get better field position. It worked a lot of the time.
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Post by pantherpride91 on Feb 28, 2008 9:16:26 GMT -6
Along the lines as dcohio said, small school atmosphere, at least here in Ohio, is tough to beat. I went to one of the best small schools in the state and as he said if you want to rob a store friday night is the best time. Seeing a stadium filled with 6,000 people when the town has less than 5,000 is pretty cool. Now, you can run into a problem with that as well. We had some guys who let that running the town mentality get to their head. Some guys who thought they were invincible (out drinking, partying all weekend, and just being stupid). We were lucky (in my eyes) to have a coach that did not care who you were if you did the crime you do the time. When you have the whole town talking about how great you are a 16 year old can really start to believe some things. Success is awesome no matter where you are, but being able to keep a small school kid grounded is key. It could sometimes feel like it you against the whole town.
You also have to know that in a small school you are alot more likely to have your personal life out there in the open. I went one time to have dinner a couple towns over from the school I am at now. I happen to have a beer with my meal. There was also a couple people who go to the school working in the restaurant. You can imagine the stories I heard the next week. I even heard one that said I could barely walk getting out of place. Since larger schools tend to be located in more populated areas, and more places to chose to eat, I am guessing that does not happen as much. Just understand that you are being watched by everyone and in my experience do truely become a face of the community, even if you are just an assistant.
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Post by fatkicker on Feb 28, 2008 9:49:12 GMT -6
a coach having a beer? what coach would do that? i don't know any coaches that drink.....
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Post by dhooper on Feb 28, 2008 10:16:05 GMT -6
It depends small school and small town, or just small school. I have been coaching at a small school for a while now, and I think the biggest problem is finding coaches. Yeah depth is always and issue, but coaches are the hardest thing to find, at least all the schools I've been.
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Post by bluecrazy on Feb 28, 2008 16:03:12 GMT -6
It depends small school and small town, or just small school. I have been coaching at a small school for a while now, and I think the biggest problem is finding coaches. Yeah depth is always and issue, but coaches are the hardest thing to find, at least all the schools I've been. AMEN! |
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Post by bluecrazy on Feb 29, 2008 12:05:19 GMT -6
We are a small school. Around 125 in the school. My 1st year there, we had 22 players, 2nd year, 17. Hard to get the 9th and 10th graders to play, because they are scared to play at the varsity level with juniors and seniors. I have a few now convinced that the teams we play, also have 9th-12th grade boys playing on there varsity as well.
It is also hard to get good coaches to come to the small school. They want to be where the big action is at. What they don't understand, is the relationships that you can develop with the kids. You have more time with the one on ones. This is one thing I don't ever want to give up.
I have been able to get some younger guys to coach, but I teach them as well as the students. So it is a catch 22, in that you have to get the younger players on board, as well as a coaching staff.
I will agree with others however, that the whole town is in love with the football team. Sometimes however, the expectations are just to high.
As others have stated, you cannot get to fancy with your offense, and defense. You have to teach a base, and stay with it. You just don't get enough players that are smart enough to do more than a couple of things. You work with the players that you have. We made a mistake last year, and made a change up on defense for one team. We payed dearly. You can go with a base and shift to another look, if you keep the reads the same.
As far as getting the other coaches to help, it is also hard to get help in the off season: Because we share the same kids with the basketball- baseball, and track teams, I have to open the weight room before school. As the head coach, everything you do is usually on your own. That includes, the playbooks, equipment, inventory, promoting the program, off season conditioning, 7 on 7, and everything else that you can think of. So you will get tired. However, if you love what you do, it is worth all the time that you invest! After being at a bigger school, I do recommend the small school atmosphere! bluecrazy
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, but this young man stepped up and met the challenge. Continued to play there the rest of season. The choice was simple, and we are only successful when we have our best players on the field...Did that sound like a maddenism? In a nutshell, think outside the box and insist on a LOYAL staff over "knowledgeble" staff. Be on the same page. Good luck! 
