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Post by tog on Apr 4, 2006 6:11:40 GMT -6
How many of you guys have heard this when seeking a job in a higher classification?
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Post by coachjd on Apr 4, 2006 6:26:11 GMT -6
all the time. Even with 9 years of college coaching experience before my high school coaching days.
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Post by coachseven on Apr 4, 2006 7:54:31 GMT -6
I get the same problem. I coached in college including a stint as a head coach as well as a coordinator at a large high school.
When I was in college and the large school everyone wanted to talk to me about what we were doing and thought it was genius. Now that I am at a small school everyone thinks its too small time. Funny thing is the same stuff that was working for me in college is working for me now. I guess if I take a big job I will be a genius again. Oh ya running the exact same stuff. LOL
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Post by knighter on Apr 4, 2006 8:02:23 GMT -6
TOG-
Tough question for me at the moment...LOL. Maybe I will take all references to Classification off my resume...
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Post by paydirt18 on Apr 4, 2006 8:10:38 GMT -6
Tog, from my experience up here instead of the "your from a small school", we get "you haved coached in the city conference". Some suburban coaches are very arrogant with regard to their oppinion of city coaches-yet most envy the talent there is, therefore they look at you as "less" of a coach. This is particularly noticable at clinics. If coaches see a city logo on your shirt they will make no effort to interact with you. I know this now after being on both sides of the fence.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 4, 2006 10:30:17 GMT -6
I see it all the time at the big clinics. How often do you see a small school coach speak at a Nike or Glazier clinic. I know there are exceptions here but overall I think it is true. I also think there are many metro area coaches who look on outstate programs as somehow lesser just because they are not suburban. I coached at an outstate power as an assitant for a while and we never got the respect even though we'd show up and beat them in the playoffs.
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rig
Freshmen Member
Posts: 24
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Post by rig on Apr 4, 2006 11:28:41 GMT -6
We also have areas that are "football counties" and then there is everyone else. Not a lot of respect for other county coaches in their eyes.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 4, 2006 12:38:52 GMT -6
Well... having been a HC at small schools (under 200), then a large school (2200) then a tiny school (72), I see there are some biases from people who don't know much football (administrators, most parents). I see it on both ends- the "we can't do that here" mentality. I always laugh about this- the same offensive theory I've used for nearly my whole career was "boring and stupid" at the big school, and "too complex for our guys" at the small school.
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 4, 2006 14:38:32 GMT -6
you should try interviewing for a big school job as a junior high coach lol.
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Post by airman on Apr 4, 2006 22:07:46 GMT -6
Tog, from my experience up here instead of the "your from a small school", we get "you haved coached in the city conference". Some suburban coaches are very arrogant with regard to their oppinion of city coaches-yet most envy the talent there is, therefore they look at you as "less" of a coach. This is particularly noticable at clinics. If coaches see a city logo on your shirt they will make no effort to interact with you. I know this now after being on both sides of the fence. i do feel bad for milwaukee city coaches. they do get a bad rep. sadly there have been many overlooked and many who should not even coach. |
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Post by realdawg on Apr 5, 2006 5:25:46 GMT -6
Thats why when applying for jobs a friend of mine uses the Wal-Mart Rule. If the town isnt big enough to have a Wal-Mart, than he doesnt apply.
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Post by knighter on Apr 5, 2006 5:44:17 GMT -6
In retrospect I believe a major part of the problem lies with the parents.
An AD has to "sell"his hire to the parents/Boosters of his or her community. Since most parents are CLUELESS about what real football is, the hiring of a small school guy at a big school is made tremendously difficult. The parents/boosters look at one thing, how big was the school this guy coached at before.
ie. in my situation guy was 13-14 in his last 3 years, we have been 27-5 in the same time span. He was at the 3A level, me at the class A level. He has 4A experience, I have been either Class A or 1A my entire career. In otherwords I would have been a tough sell.
Football is football, motivating kids, getting players in the right places, x's and o's are the same at every level. In some respects I believe us small school guys may have a slight advantage in certain aspects, as we have no choice but to find a place where an average kid can be successful, as we have limited numbers of kids to choose from. We have to figure out ways to be creative to gain some "artificial" depth at positions. Oh well, at least I am employed, suppose it could be worse!
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 5, 2006 6:29:06 GMT -6
I maintain that a small school coach has just as many challenges, maybe different, but just as many as any big school coach. at small schools you lose one kid to injury adn you have to replace him at 3 or 4 spots...offense, defense, punt team, kickoff or kick return for example...its not easy.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 5, 2006 13:43:37 GMT -6
I maintain that a small school coach has just as many challenges, maybe different, but just as many as any big school coach. at small schools you lose one kid to injury adn you have to replace him at 3 or 4 spots...offense, defense, punt team, kickoff or kick return for example...its not easy. Agreed. Being a coach at small school does not mean you are less of a coach. It just means you usally have less resources to work with. |
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Post by tog on Apr 5, 2006 14:26:04 GMT -6
I maintain that a small school coach has just as many challenges, maybe different, but just as many as any big school coach. at small schools you lose one kid to injury adn you have to replace him at 3 or 4 spots...offense, defense, punt team, kickoff or kick return for example...its not easy. Agreed. Being a coach at small school does not mean you are less of a coach. It just means you usally have less resources to work with. which means you have to be a more adaptable coach |
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Post by spreadjet31 on Apr 5, 2006 14:44:03 GMT -6
I have only coached at a small school, and I played at the same small high school before playing in college at a small college. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to know what it's like at a big high school as I hope to coach at one someday. But as for the small school debate, I think it's a great way to gain valuable knowledge and experience.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 5, 2006 15:04:01 GMT -6
The bottom line is there are good coaches at all levels... again, having been on both ends, here is my take: a small school coach has to know each position, offense, defense and special teams. In that respect, that kind of background will serve well as a head coach at any level.
In a big school, often position coaches can focus on one area (OL, LB, etc.) and be very well skilled at that position, but may be lacking in areas they haven't worked with... to move from a position coach to a Coord. or HC job means you will have to really learn a lot on the run.
On the other side, management of personnel and overall organization are important either place, but are absolute musts in a big school. It is a lot different having a roster of 200 as opposed to 25. Also, being a solid x and o guy is probably more important in a big school because you can do so much more. At a big school, I had players who played DT in goal line/short yardage or DTs who were in for passing situations. At a small school, I have a guy who started at Corner, Fullback, Tight End and later at Guard who was our backup QB and will move to LB on defense this year. In this situation, you have to be pretty basic.
For myself, I reaped benefits from both situations- small school coaching made me more knowledgable on all facets of the game, big school coaching helped to refine my organizational skills and helped me land an administrative position at a small school (where I had previously worked).
One of the great things about coaching (or teaching) if you like being in a city, the suburbs, or out in the sticks- you can. Not many jobs allow you that kind of versatility; in teaching/coaching you can virtually work anywhere.
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Post by dhooper on Apr 11, 2006 15:48:07 GMT -6
I agree, I have been coaching at the 2 and 3a schools for the last six years been to the play offs all but two of them. When a 5a job opens the AD looks past you. "Hasn't coach at a big school." But the fact is my little 2a school would beat them. It really grows on you. I can't wait someday when I do play one of those 5a schools that look past me. Will see who gets the last laugh. On organization wow how nice it would be to have numbers. Not just athletes but coaches. I don't know about the other small schools but at the small schools I’ve coached at you have to coach it all. It would be nice to be able to two platoons. For now I just get to play the 5a schools in 7 on 7 and it feels good to beat the big schools. I might accept a 4a job and just maybe I'll get to play them
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 11, 2006 16:05:02 GMT -6
dhooper,
One thing I learned (not that my experience fits all...) is that I really enjoy working at a small school much more than at a big school. Early in my career, I thought bigger was better. I learned that bigger is bigger. I know some coaches who are great coaches at small schools and at big schools. I know some guys who couldn't coach Smoky the Bear out of a burning forest... some of those guys are at small schools, some at big schools. I do think if one aspires to coach at a level beyond HS, it probably helps more to have been (or currently be at) at a large HS (in a "football state"), but that isn't always true either.
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Post by tog on Apr 11, 2006 16:10:52 GMT -6
Thats why when applying for jobs a friend of mine uses the Wal-Mart Rule. If the town isnt big enough to have a Wal-Mart, than he doesnt apply. my wife has adopted that rule for us |
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Post by mikewdw on Apr 11, 2006 18:21:21 GMT -6
anyone notice hoe there are almost no sessions for small schools at clinics? i have almost quit going because so little of it applies to what i can do with my 25-35 guys. i would kill to see some sessions by succesful small school coaches on how they have conquered the obstacles in small school coaching.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 11, 2006 21:19:20 GMT -6
Mike,
I don't know where you are, but here in Nebraska there are a lot of resources for small school coaches. A lot of clinic speakers come from the small schools. We only have 28 class A schools (1200+), 32 Class B (about 350-1199) and 250+ class C and D under 27-350). There are a lot of resources here (clinics, small school associations, etc.). I think that is the same throughout much of the Midwest/Rocky Mountain region. A lot of towns without Wal-Mart.
p.s. Tog... Forget Wal-mart...I've heard this one from our parents/fans: "We shouldn't be playing them- they are a big school. Their town has Pamida"
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Post by knighter on Apr 12, 2006 5:12:01 GMT -6
Big Schools can sometimes = Big School Headaches.
They may have Pamida or Wal Mart, but do they have a China One Buffet?
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 12, 2006 9:56:16 GMT -6
anyone notice hoe there are almost no sessions for small schools at clinics? i have almost quit going because so little of it applies to what i can do with my 25-35 guys. i would kill to see some sessions by succesful small school coaches on how they have conquered the obstacles in small school coaching. GET TO A DOUBLE WING CLINIC  |
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