|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 23, 2018 2:13:13 GMT -6
I've been at the school i'm at now for five years, It's my alma mater and i went straight into coaching after graduating. In all my time at the school we have never had a female player, or a girl who wanted to be a player (over the summer). However this year we have a female student who has decided to play. This is not an issue for me or any of the coaches on the staff (the gender, is not an issue). We have all been welcoming, our Head coach especially has gone to good lengths to make her feel welcome. HOWEVER, the situation has now arrived that i have been waiting all summer for. This student (female) happens to have an injury too her knee, it is a significant injury that could/should have gotten surgery. However, she has elected to go the non-surgical route and instead let it heel. In doing this her doctor has informed her that she should not run alot (he said to do 1/3 to 1/2) of the running as the rest of the team. She had been doing this for a couple weeks and none of the kids openly talked about it. But today it changed as during our conditioning she appeared to skip her group, as a result some of the players told her to get into the next group and do the rep. She got mad, but did the rep anyways. When she got back from the run she told one of the players 'F**k You' and proceeded to sit on the ground for the rest of conditioning with the other 'hurt' kids. This created a riff in practice as some of the kids finally got mad and brought up the issue of her not pulling her weight and doing the same as everybody else. This lead to a 10 minute conversation in which our HC seemed to contradict himself a few times, leaving the other kids dissatisfied and confused.
Our kids were using our coaching staffs own words against our HC, i.e. 'we are only as strong as our weakest link', 'you dont have to be the fastest but you have to do the same work as everybody else' etc, etc. Now I'm on the majority side in thinking if you want to be on the team, say your part of the team you have to do the work. With the caveat being that you are able to do the work. As of right now she will not be suiting up for our next game (or any of our future games) due to her injury. But she is still participating in some of the drills in practice. As a result, she has entered this grey area in which she is doing the work but not all of it. If she didn't suit up at all and just came to practices hurt and wore a jersey on the sideline i would be fine, i wouldnt care and i dont think any of the other kids would have an issue either. However the issue is that she is picking and choosing how much she is doing which is affecting the rest of the kids.
So my question is have any of you experienced anything like this, because right now i dont know where we are going to go from here. I believe that this could possibly be a major riff in the team dividing them, either against the girl, or against the coaches as they will see that she does not have to do the same work as everyone else and is held to a different standard.
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Aug 23, 2018 3:52:26 GMT -6
I guess I don't understand the controversy here. She's injured and can't go 100%. There's not really anything that should be divisive about an injury.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Aug 23, 2018 5:38:39 GMT -6
Why are you, the HC, or the kids even worried about this when there are other kids "just sitting on the ground"? Sounds like she is working harder than some of the penis carriers. I think you may say she isn't a problem and none of you care she's female, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.
|
|
|
Post by CS on Aug 23, 2018 5:59:16 GMT -6
Why are you, the HC, or the kids even worried about this when there are other kids "just sitting on the ground"? Sounds like she is working harder than some of the penis carriers. I think you may say she isn't a problem and none of you care she's female, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. “penis carriers” That is hilarious
|
|
klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
|
Post by klaby on Aug 23, 2018 6:50:40 GMT -6
Communication. Put all your "hurt" players in a different jersey, that way no confusion, she is hurt. If she is in full pads and in the same jersey as the full participation kids, then problems like this will occur even with none female players.
|
|
bighit65
Junior Member
Make a statement without saying a word.
Posts: 397
|
Post by bighit65 on Aug 23, 2018 7:35:07 GMT -6
If a player is hurt and cannot participate fully, they should be sitting out watching. I don't know how allowing someone to only do some drills helps anyone. You can play or you can't. There is no grey area. Notice, I never mentioned gender in this post. Irrelevant fact in this situation.
|
|
|
Post by s73 on Aug 23, 2018 7:51:09 GMT -6
Where's the trainer in ll of this? When one of our kids is hurt and is working towards coming back the trainer works w/ them on recovery exercises not football exercises. No disrespect, but this situation makes no sense and I kind of understand why the kids are irritated and confused. Either she can go or she can't.
If she can't she shouldn't be dressing and practicing. IMO, you guys need to make an executive decision or the trainer does on her status and tell her to sit out if she is incapable of playing in any games this season.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If you don't naturally kids are wondering why she does what "she chooses" (perception is reality).
|
|
|
Post by gators41 on Aug 23, 2018 9:00:07 GMT -6
Why are you, the HC, or the kids even worried about this when there are other kids "just sitting on the ground"? Sounds like she is working harder than some of the penis carriers. I think you may say she isn't a problem and none of you care she's female, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Oh. My. Goodness. You cant post stuff like this....I just died laughing in the middle of class. Penis Carrier... And Im out...
|
|
|
Post by fkaboneyard on Aug 23, 2018 9:09:33 GMT -6
The gender thing is totally irrelevant. Is the player hurt or not? Can she go or not?
And +1 on penis carrier, hilarious.
|
|
|
Post by agap on Aug 23, 2018 9:20:32 GMT -6
Is everyone upset about the other 'hurt' kids who were sitting on the ground?
|
|
|
Post by chi5hi on Aug 23, 2018 9:26:47 GMT -6
Since I am not, nor ever have been politically correct, my comment will undoubtedly make some people roll their eyes.
Girls have no business trying to play on a boys tackle football team. It's a very stupid thing to do.
|
|
|
Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Aug 23, 2018 9:47:05 GMT -6
|
|
pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
|
Post by pistola on Aug 23, 2018 10:25:19 GMT -6
OF COURSE she doesn't have to do the same work.. she has an injury and is not playing in the games.. thats the difference the rest of the team and seems a bit like you aren't realizing.
if this were a player missing reps, conditioning and work and still getting the reward (playing in games) its a different situation.. should be a non issue, and if this is something that the coaches can't handle the mark is getting missed.
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 23, 2018 13:33:07 GMT -6
So to clarify a couple things. When she joined the other kids on the ground, those kids have some sort of leg injury and are doing push ups/planks/crunches etc. And to the point about what about the teams feelings towards the hurt kids sitting on the ground. No the team isnt upset with them as they have injuries to their lower body that inhibit them from running, however they are doing other forms of a workout while everyone else is doing conditioning. Those kids arent doing some of the work and then deciding to stop, they are doing an alternate form of workout from the beginning.
As i have perceived it, the issue with the team isnt that she is female and not doing all the work. The issue is she is not doing all the work. Had she gone with the injured kids and done the alternate workout i dont believe this issue would have come up. However she instead did part of the conditioning and then stopped.
We do have an athletic trainer, however, his job is not to actively rehab players, his job is to monitor injuries provide some medical assistance and be the primary person in communication with the players actual doctor. He recommends stretches, does light diagnosis, but we do not have anyone on staff whose job is to rehab athletes.
The rest of the team knows that she isnt playing in this week's game, but i dont believe they know if she will 'play' in any of the games. It appears to me that the issue they have is that she is able to refer to herself as being on the team or a part of the team without having to do all the work as everybody else. Additionally, another point brought up, was that some of the players wouldnt care if she (or anyone) was hurt and could not practice fully, they are upset that she is only doing some elements of the practice, and not doing all of it. If she came to practice in her street clothes and just watched they wouldn't care.
As for the injury thing. This is where i get confused. As she has a legitimate injury, but she is still electing to do some parts of practice. So it's not a question of can she go or not, it's not that simple of a question. If the question was can she go as in go into a game, it's a No. If the question is can she go as in participate in practice it depends and is sometimes Yes and sometimes No.
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Aug 23, 2018 18:41:37 GMT -6
So to clarify a couple things. When she joined the other kids on the ground, those kids have some sort of leg injury and are doing push ups/planks/crunches etc. And to the point about what about the teams feelings towards the hurt kids sitting on the ground. No the team isnt upset with them as they have injuries to their lower body that inhibit them from running, however they are doing other forms of a workout while everyone else is doing conditioning. Those kids arent doing some of the work and then deciding to stop, they are doing an alternate form of workout from the beginning. As i have perceived it, the issue with the team isnt that she is female and not doing all the work. The issue is she is not doing all the work. Had she gone with the injured kids and done the alternate workout i dont believe this issue would have come up. However she instead did part of the conditioning and then stopped. We do have an athletic trainer, however, his job is not to actively rehab players, his job is to monitor injuries provide some medical assistance and be the primary person in communication with the players actual doctor. He recommends stretches, does light diagnosis, but we do not have anyone on staff whose job is to rehab athletes. The rest of the team knows that she isnt playing in this week's game, but i dont believe they know if she will 'play' in any of the games. It appears to me that the issue they have is that she is able to refer to herself as being on the team or a part of the team without having to do all the work as everybody else. Additionally, another point brought up, was that some of the players wouldnt care if she (or anyone) was hurt and could not practice fully, they are upset that she is only doing some elements of the practice, and not doing all of it. If she came to practice in her street clothes and just watched they wouldn't care. As for the injury thing. This is where i get confused. As she has a legitimate injury, but she is still electing to do some parts of practice. So it's not a question of can she go or not, it's not that simple of a question. If the question was can she go as in go into a game, it's a No. If the question is can she go as in participate in practice it depends and is sometimes Yes and sometimes No. So they would just rather her do nothing and stand around in street clothes? That’s an odd way of thinking. Seems like there is a lack of communication on what she is cleared to do. Someone, usually a trainer, should put a recovery plan in place. The player should follow that plan to the best of their ability. The coached should make sure that plan is followed so that the injured player can get healthy as soon as possible. The other players should work hard and focus on what they can do to be optimal in meeting their own personal goals and contributing to the teams efforts in meeting its goals. Players shouldn’t be able to pick their own plan to recovery. And teammates shouldn’t be charged with enforcing practice and game participation. Kids are acting like kids because someone is missing the ball as an adult.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Aug 23, 2018 19:10:19 GMT -6
Since I am not, nor ever have been politically correct, my comment will undoubtedly make some people roll their eyes. Girls have no business trying to play on a boys tackle football team. It's a very stupid thing to do. Half the "men" that play it, but are bigger {censored} than the the girls, don't have any business playing it either, but that doesn't stop them. I've had 4 girls play on my teams. Not a single one ever bitches about tackling drills making them itchy because of the grass like 75% of our fresh"men" did yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 23, 2018 21:31:00 GMT -6
So to clarify a couple things. When she joined the other kids on the ground, those kids have some sort of leg injury and are doing push ups/planks/crunches etc. And to the point about what about the teams feelings towards the hurt kids sitting on the ground. No the team isnt upset with them as they have injuries to their lower body that inhibit them from running, however they are doing other forms of a workout while everyone else is doing conditioning. Those kids arent doing some of the work and then deciding to stop, they are doing an alternate form of workout from the beginning. As i have perceived it, the issue with the team isnt that she is female and not doing all the work. The issue is she is not doing all the work. Had she gone with the injured kids and done the alternate workout i dont believe this issue would have come up. However she instead did part of the conditioning and then stopped. We do have an athletic trainer, however, his job is not to actively rehab players, his job is to monitor injuries provide some medical assistance and be the primary person in communication with the players actual doctor. He recommends stretches, does light diagnosis, but we do not have anyone on staff whose job is to rehab athletes. The rest of the team knows that she isnt playing in this week's game, but i dont believe they know if she will 'play' in any of the games. It appears to me that the issue they have is that she is able to refer to herself as being on the team or a part of the team without having to do all the work as everybody else. Additionally, another point brought up, was that some of the players wouldnt care if she (or anyone) was hurt and could not practice fully, they are upset that she is only doing some elements of the practice, and not doing all of it. If she came to practice in her street clothes and just watched they wouldn't care. As for the injury thing. This is where i get confused. As she has a legitimate injury, but she is still electing to do some parts of practice. So it's not a question of can she go or not, it's not that simple of a question. If the question was can she go as in go into a game, it's a No. If the question is can she go as in participate in practice it depends and is sometimes Yes and sometimes No. So they would just rather her do nothing and stand around in street clothes? That’s an odd way of thinking. Seems like there is a lack of communication on what she is cleared to do. Someone, usually a trainer, should put a recovery plan in place. The player should follow that plan to the best of their ability. The coached should make sure that plan is followed so that the injured player can get healthy as soon as possible. The other players should work hard and focus on what they can do to be optimal in meeting their own personal goals and contributing to the teams efforts in meeting its goals. Players shouldn’t be able to pick their own plan to recovery. And teammates shouldn’t be charged with enforcing practice and game participation. Kids are acting like kids because someone is missing the ball as an adult. How i have perceived it is with the mindset being 'if you are injured and cant practice, fine. But if you can kinda practice, you should at least have to do the hard (not fun) stuff too".
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Aug 24, 2018 3:29:49 GMT -6
So they would just rather her do nothing and stand around in street clothes? That’s an odd way of thinking. Seems like there is a lack of communication on what she is cleared to do. Someone, usually a trainer, should put a recovery plan in place. The player should follow that plan to the best of their ability. The coached should make sure that plan is followed so that the injured player can get healthy as soon as possible. The other players should work hard and focus on what they can do to be optimal in meeting their own personal goals and contributing to the teams efforts in meeting its goals. Players shouldn’t be able to pick their own plan to recovery. And teammates shouldn’t be charged with enforcing practice and game participation. Kids are acting like kids because someone is missing the ball as an adult. How i have perceived it is with the mindset being 'if you are injured and cant practice, fine. But if you can kinda practice, you should at least have to do the hard (not fun) stuff too". Yeah the ambiguous nature of the recovery is a little sketchy. My thought is that there should be an expert, hopefully a trainer in place to develop and implement a recovery plan. I don’t agree it has to be all or nothing. The injury protocol is a build up where players slowly work themselves back with segmentmented parts of the game. I am not sure the specific of your player but a “protocol” might clear things up.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Aug 24, 2018 8:10:03 GMT -6
How i have perceived it is with the mindset being 'if you are injured and cant practice, fine. But if you can kinda practice, you should at least have to do the hard (not fun) stuff too". Yeah the ambiguous nature of the recovery is a little sketchy. My thought is that there should be an expert, hopefully a trainer in place to develop and implement a recovery plan. I don’t agree it has to be all or nothing. The injury protocol is a build up where players slowly work themselves back with segmentmented parts of the game. I am not sure the specific of your player but a “protocol” might clear things up. Yeah, I'm wondering what the trainer has to say about the injury. Where are the instructions about what she can and can't do coming from? What's her time frame? Besides conditioning running what else can't she do?
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Aug 24, 2018 11:46:11 GMT -6
Yeah the ambiguous nature of the recovery is a little sketchy. My thought is that there should be an expert, hopefully a trainer in place to develop and implement a recovery plan. I don’t agree it has to be all or nothing. The injury protocol is a build up where players slowly work themselves back with segmentmented parts of the game. I am not sure the specific of your player but a “protocol” might clear things up. Yeah, I'm wondering what the trainer has to say about the injury. Where are the instructions about what she can and can't do coming from? What's her time frame? Besides conditioning running what else can't she do? The instructions are coming from her own doctor. She relays the message to the HC and the other coaches. As far as i know our trainer is not involved with this one particular student, as she has been going to her own physician and following his instructions. From what i've been told the time frame for her to be fully healed is about 8-10 weeks from now, putting her at either the last game of the season or past the last game. Aside from running in a straight line, she is not supposed to make quick cuts, or move laterally. Additionally i dont believe she has been practicing tackling either.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Aug 24, 2018 12:35:23 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm wondering what the trainer has to say about the injury. Where are the instructions about what she can and can't do coming from? What's her time frame? Besides conditioning running what else can't she do? The instructions are coming from her own doctor. She relays the message to the HC and the other coaches. As far as i know our trainer is not involved with this one particular student, as she has been going to her own physician and following his instructions. From what i've been told the time frame for her to be fully healed is about 8-10 weeks from now, putting her at either the last game of the season or past the last game. Aside from running in a straight line, she is not supposed to make quick cuts, or move laterally. Additionally i dont believe she has been practicing tackling either. 8-10 weeks? But yet she can do some drills now? That is crazy. Why does anyone even care if she isn't doing anything? She isn't even really going to play.
|
|
pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
|
Post by pistola on Aug 24, 2018 12:52:03 GMT -6
The instructions are coming from her own doctor. She relays the message to the HC and the other coaches. As far as i know our trainer is not involved with this one particular student, as she has been going to her own physician and following his instructions. From what i've been told the time frame for her to be fully healed is about 8-10 weeks from now, putting her at either the last game of the season or past the last game. Aside from running in a straight line, she is not supposed to make quick cuts, or move laterally. Additionally i dont believe she has been practicing tackling either. 8-10 weeks? But yet she can do some drills now? That is crazy. Why does anyone even care if she isn't doing anything? She isn't even really going to play. thats the biggest thing I'm taking away from this whole situation.. she's not playing games.. so it's not like shes skipping work and getting the reward.. why does it matter
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Aug 24, 2018 13:08:03 GMT -6
The instructions are coming from her own doctor. She relays the message to the HC and the other coaches. As far as i know our trainer is not involved with this one particular student, as she has been going to her own physician and following his instructions. From what i've been told the time frame for her to be fully healed is about 8-10 weeks from now, putting her at either the last game of the season or past the last game. Aside from running in a straight line, she is not supposed to make quick cuts, or move laterally. Additionally i dont believe she has been practicing tackling either. 8-10 weeks? But yet she can do some drills now? That is crazy. Why does anyone even care if she isn't doing anything? She isn't even really going to play. To me, this is the reason why it counts that this is a girl. Under the same circumstances you might suggest that a boy become a manager or assistant trainer (It sounds like the trainer could use some help). With a girl, though, you might be accused of trying to get rid of her.
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Aug 25, 2018 7:07:03 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm wondering what the trainer has to say about the injury. Where are the instructions about what she can and can't do coming from? What's her time frame? Besides conditioning running what else can't she do? The instructions are coming from her own doctor. She relays the message to the HC and the other coaches. As far as i know our trainer is not involved with this one particular student, as she has been going to her own physician and following his instructions. From what i've been told the time frame for her to be fully healed is about 8-10 weeks from now, putting her at either the last game of the season or past the last game. Aside from running in a straight line, she is not supposed to make quick cuts, or move laterally. Additionally i dont believe she has been practicing tackling either. If her doctor tells her she can’t do something then she can’t do that thing. Also even if she is seeing her own physician then the trainer should still be involved in the monitoring and implementation of her plan to recovery. It may not be because she’s a girl but it seems like there are people in the program that are putting too much energy in what this player is doing or not doing. You can’t expect a player to disregard their doctors instructions. You can think the doctor is wrong but the doctor is the expert. The coaches and the kids that are displeased really should probably just move on. There’s got to be more important uses of the energy.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Aug 25, 2018 7:14:11 GMT -6
It may not be because she’s a girl but it seems like there are people in the program that are putting too much energy in what this player is doing or not doing. Nailed it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 17:23:24 GMT -6
If a doctor has said she can only do 1/3 to 1/2 of the drills for medical reasons, you and the rest of the staff better not expect her to do them. She's "injured" and it's your @$$ in a sling if you have her do anything beyond that.
They just used a similar reason to can a HS coach in my area at midseason. A player had evidently been milking an ankle injury though he was fine. The coach got the kid on video dunking a basketball the day before practice, so he had him go out to run some agility and cone drills for a few minutes to see how he could move. However, the team trainer had said he wasn't cleared to "practice." Within a few days the coach was suspended and then fired. There was more to the story than that, but that was a big part of the official justification.
With this girl, it sounds like everyone else is making a big deal about what she is doing or not doing, while some boys are evidently just laying around and being allowed to get away with it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I've never coached girls in football, personally. We had a few talk about coming out at different stops but they were discouraged from doing so. I have coached against teams who had girls on them. When the girls came out, they were made into kickers and apparently spent their entire practices kicking FGs and punting with zero contact.
|
|
|
Post by mlaotttt on Aug 25, 2018 20:30:24 GMT -6
HOWEVER, the situation has now arrived that i have been waiting all summer for. This student (female) happens to have an injury too her knee, it is a significant injury that could/should have gotten surgery. However, she has elected to go the non-surgical route and instead let it heel. In doing this her doctor has informed her that she should not run alot (he said to do 1/3 to 1/2) of the running as the rest of the team.
What situation have you been waiting for? One of your players to have a significant injury and follow thier doctors orders for recovery?
|
|
|
Post by badtotheflexbone on Aug 25, 2018 20:40:41 GMT -6
Take gender out of the equation, what would you do then? Do that
|
|
|
Post by CS on Aug 26, 2018 5:05:31 GMT -6
Admittedly I haven’t read every reply but has anyone addressed the fact the the Drs orders are the dumbest I have ever seen. It’s pretty much standard operating procedure that a kid with a Drs note is out for 2 weeks no matter what it is. It’s annoying but I have never seen one who said they are too hurt for everything but they can do half ? If it says they can do light physical activity then we just sit them anyway cause who cares...go walk the track??? You have to treat her the way you would treat anyone else but in my opinion why waist reps on someone who can’t play
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Aug 26, 2018 5:27:47 GMT -6
Admittedly I haven’t read every reply but has anyone addressed the fact the the Drs orders are the dumbest I have ever seen. It’s pretty much standard operating procedure that a kid with a Drs note is out for 2 weeks no matter what it is. It’s annoying but I have never seen one who said they are too hurt for everything but they can do half ? If it says they can do light physical activity then we just sit them anyway cause who cares...go walk the track??? You have to treat her the way you would treat anyone else but in my opinion why waist reps on someone who can’t play Doctors orders may be dumb. But if you don’t follow the dumb doctor you may be dealing with a smart lawyer.
|
|