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Post by silkyice on Jul 6, 2018 19:06:59 GMT -6
CS ****, That is true. No doubt. But you are now talking out both sides of your mouth. One minute it is all that stuff works and then when you get to week 11+ against great coaches, etc. So you better know what you are doing. The next minute, it is the team with the best athletes. Also, while Saban is the best coach in the land - no doubt in my mind, and possibly the best ever, the BEST thing he does is recruit. He always has the best players and deepest team. Maybe we shouldn't be listening to him. Scheme matters. Exectution matters more. Players matter even more. And some coaches are so damn smart, they know when not to outscheme themselves by trying to outscheme the other team and be in the perfect play call. They use their talent and execution and don't worry about a 5 yard hitch or 5 yard rpo that they know the other team isn't going to beat them with consistently. I don’t see it as talking out of both sides of my mouth at all. More of a cautionary tale that you can be successful with great players but you of all people should know that development and putting players in a position to win is important especially deep in the playoffs. What I’m saying is that we really only have to worry about 1 team in our conference. The playoffs are our real season and we meet teams with really good players and really good coaches and that “it works for us” bastardized coverages don’t work with teams that know what they’re doing I understand and you are 100% correct. But... One minute, you can't play that. Then someone shows how they or OMG, Bama, was aligned similarly and it worked, and then it is well athletes win games. Just saying...
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Post by CS on Jul 6, 2018 19:16:32 GMT -6
I don’t see it as talking out of both sides of my mouth at all. More of a cautionary tale that you can be successful with great players but you of all people should know that development and putting players in a position to win is important especially deep in the playoffs. What I’m saying is that we really only have to worry about 1 team in our conference. The playoffs are our real season and we meet teams with really good players and really good coaches and that “it works for us” bastardized coverages don’t work with teams that know what they’re doing I understand and you are 100% correct. But... One minute, you can't play that. Then someone shows how they or OMG, Bama, was aligned similarly and it worked, and then it is well athletes win games. Just saying... I’m saying athletes win games in a sense but doing things correctly is more important because we don’t all have the best athletes. If you do things correctly you can beat the teams that are equal to or slightly better than you if they don’t. If they are just flat out better athletically in every way then if doesn’t fuking matter what you do Edit: also he didn’t show what the discussion was talking about so that’s a moot point
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Post by mackball on Jul 6, 2018 19:23:59 GMT -6
I learned Rip Liz from 5 different very good CFB and Pro coaches, all 5 ran it different, and all 5 had different flood rules. None of which I think I could ever run when I go back to High School, unless that is all we ran.
It is like when I learned IZ, some guys double teamed, some guys full zoned, some guys had a bunch of tags, some didn't. People do things different.
The good thing that most of us agree with is that the team with the best players usually wins!
When I was younger, I was a HC of a loaded team and we use to kill this other team. I took a rebuild job and that team buried us. I felt like such a clown because when I was younger I actually thought I was cool and would bigtime the guy and look down on their program. I literally grew up that night and was so thankful it happened.
The bottom line is we are all in this profession together and our common goal is helping raise young men through this great, but dying sport. It has never (ever) been this difficult to coach before, and now, more than ever, we need to step it up, stick together and not only help each other, but help this game as a whole.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 6, 2018 19:40:33 GMT -6
I understand and you are 100% correct. But... One minute, you can't play that. Then someone shows how they or OMG, Bama, was aligned similarly and it worked, and then it is well athletes win games. Just saying... I’m saying athletes win games in a sense but doing things correctly is more important because we don’t all have the best athletes. If you do things correctly you can beat the teams that are equal to or slightly better than you if they don’t. If they are just flat out better athletically in every way then if doesn’t fuking matter what you do Edit: also he didn’t show what the discussion was talking about so that’s a moot point Coach, I understand what you are saying 100%. And you are 100% right. Do you not understand what my point was at all? Was there not maybe 1% of truth in it?
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Post by silkyice on Jul 6, 2018 20:04:27 GMT -6
Coach, I understand what you are saying 100%. And you are 100% right. Do you not understand what my point was at all? Was there not maybe 1% of truth in it? Those coaches think just because they are aligned 2 high they're automatically playing full field 2 read. That's not what Saban is doing. The man says in the video how he hates Clamp (2 read) but everybody sees them line up 2 high and still think "they're running what we're running". No buddy. No, they are not. They are running a world of football you don't know exists (seriously). And I would be willing to teach it to you (like I have many on here) but you act like an arrogant dumbass, so I'm going to treat you like an arrogant dumbass. Best athletes usually best scheme. Why do you think there are HS teams that can run 2 man every single down and churn out state championships? They have 8 D1 kids and future HOFs on defense. It doesn't matter what they do (until they play a competent offense with 8 D1 kids, now they have a serious problem). Saban has the best athletes, the best scheme, the best coaches, etc. That's why they have 5 NC in 9 years. He takes the theory of 'best athletes = simple schemes' and pisses all over it. He's running NFL schemes most college guys don't even understand. Hugh Freeze must be one smart dude!! And I am impressed that you understand stuff that SEC coaches don’t even understand. And no, you did not understand my point at all.
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Post by CS on Jul 6, 2018 20:04:48 GMT -6
I’m saying athletes win games in a sense but doing things correctly is more important because we don’t all have the best athletes. If you do things correctly you can beat the teams that are equal to or slightly better than you if they don’t. If they are just flat out better athletically in every way then if doesn’t fuking matter what you do Edit: also he didn’t show what the discussion was talking about so that’s a moot point Coach, I understand what you are saying 100%. And you are 100% right. Do you not understand what my point was at all? Was there not maybe 1% of truth in it? I get what you’re saying and agree somewhat but I’m not sure you understand what their argument was. The fact that bama can play 2 high is because they have bada$$es and they will play man match quarters to it which most high school teams aren’t. What was trying to be argued was that zone match 2 read isn’t good against RPO which is correct if you play 2 read rules and not bastardized rules. I’m not saying your wrong coach just that you’re not arguing the right problem
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Post by coachks on Jul 6, 2018 20:07:14 GMT -6
They are running a world of football you don't know exists (seriously). And I would be willing to teach it to you (like I have many on here) but you act like an arrogant dumbass, so I'm going to treat you like an arrogant dumbass. He's running NFL schemes most college guys don't even understand.
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Post by coachks on Jul 6, 2018 20:10:00 GMT -6
Coach, I understand what you are saying 100%. And you are 100% right. Do you not understand what my point was at all? Was there not maybe 1% of truth in it? I get what you’re saying and agree somewhat but I’m not sure you understand what their argument was. The fact that bama can play 2 high is because they have bada$$es and they will play man match quarters to it which most high school teams aren’t. What was trying to be argued was that zone match 2 read isn’t good against RPO which is correct if you play 2 read rules and not bastardized rules. I’m not saying your wrong coach just that you’re not arguing the right problem Here is the arguement: - 2 Read sucks - No it doesn't. - You have to play cover 3 or your a dumbass. - The box is outnumbered in cover 3. - Saban plays Rip/Liz cover 3 vs all spread RPO stuff - Pictures are posted Saban plays 2 high with an overhang inside #2 - DUDE THERES A WORLD OF FOOTBALL YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 20:12:01 GMT -6
I get what you’re saying and agree somewhat but I’m not sure you understand what their argument was. The fact that bama can play 2 high is because they have bada$$es and they will play man match quarters to it which most high school teams aren’t. What was trying to be argued was that zone match 2 read isn’t good against RPO which is correct if you play 2 read rules and not bastardized rules. I’m not saying your wrong coach just that you’re not arguing the right problem Here is the arguement: - 2 Read sucks - No it doesn't. - You have to play cover 3 or your a dumbass. - The box is outnumbered in cover 3. - Saban plays Rip/Liz cover 3 vs all spread RPO stuff - Pictures are posted Saban plays 2 high with an overhang inside #2 - DUDE THERES A WORLD OF FOOTBALL YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND Serious question so don’t bite my head off. Do you understand man matched quarters or man matched cover 2?
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jul 6, 2018 20:17:07 GMT -6
*posts thread complaining that all threads turn into pissing matches*
*thread proceeds to turn into pissing match*
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Post by silkyice on Jul 6, 2018 20:19:10 GMT -6
Coach, I understand what you are saying 100%. And you are 100% right. Do you not understand what my point was at all? Was there not maybe 1% of truth in it? I get what you’re saying and agree somewhat but I’m not sure you understand what their argument was. The fact that bama can play 2 high is because they have bada$$es and they will play man match quarters to it which most high school teams aren’t. What was trying to be argued was that zone match 2 read isn’t good against RPO which is correct if you play 2 read rules and not bastardized rules. I’m not saying your wrong coach just that you’re not arguing the right problem I haven’t argued scheme at all on this thread. My point was you can’t argue scheme is most important and then argue the teams that win are the ones with the best players when someone wins with a scheme you dont approve of. Y’all are just picking and choosing which is most important based on your opinion of the situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 20:25:17 GMT -6
*posts thread complaining that all threads turn into pissing matches* *thread proceeds to turn into pissing match* I don’t think it’s that at all. I feel like a lot can be learned through those threads by people. Isn’t that why we are here?
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Post by CS on Jul 6, 2018 20:25:24 GMT -6
I get what you’re saying and agree somewhat but I’m not sure you understand what their argument was. The fact that bama can play 2 high is because they have bada$$es and they will play man match quarters to it which most high school teams aren’t. What was trying to be argued was that zone match 2 read isn’t good against RPO which is correct if you play 2 read rules and not bastardized rules. I’m not saying your wrong coach just that you’re not arguing the right problem I haven’t argued scheme at all on this thread. My point was you can’t argue scheme is most important and then argue the teams that win are the ones with the best players when someone wins with a scheme you dont approve of. Y’all are just picking and choosing which is most important based on your opinion of the situation. Now you are glossing over what I was saying. I’m saying that when you don’t have the freaks you need to scheme better. I’m saying that having freaks is absolutely the most important thing but you can’t count on freaks all the time. Imagine if you could have freaks and a solid scheme
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Post by gdf on Jul 6, 2018 20:32:23 GMT -6
*posts thread complaining that all threads turn into pissing matches* *thread proceeds to turn into pissing match* I don’t think it’s that at all. I feel like a lot can be learned through those threads by people. Isn’t that why we are here? I’ve learned a great deal in the back-and-forth of the 2 Read thread. It has clarified some things for me, and also raised a number of questions. I appreciate all the coaches involved taking the time to discuss their viewpoints in detail!
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jul 6, 2018 22:28:52 GMT -6
Skimmed through some more of the palms, 2 read, rip/Liz threads on defense and I’ve come to the conclusion that the offensive threads are much more cordial.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 6, 2018 22:52:44 GMT -6
I don’t think it’s that at all. I feel like a lot can be learned through those threads by people. Isn’t that why we are here? I’ve learned a great deal in the back-and-forth of the 2 Read thread. It has clarified some things for me, and also raised a number of questions. I appreciate all the coaches involved taking the time to discuss their viewpoints in detail! There was/is a TON of great info in that thread. But let's not act like there wasn't a bunch of useless B.S. dick measuring going on also.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 7:18:08 GMT -6
You always learn something here
Whether or not it be football realted is another thing...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 19:40:01 GMT -6
Every thread seems like it’s turning into “you can’t do this vs. this!” or “that doesn’t work!” types of pissing matches and I’m sick of it. To be frank, I don’t really care what defense Nick Saban runs on 3rd & Medium on the right hash against a 2x2 set. This site is meant for HIGH SCHOOL OR YOUTH COACHES to get better. Not to bicker about some miniscule difference in a collegiate coverage that 99% of high school teams will never run. It’s gotten to the point where I’m finding myself scrolling through threads from 2015 when I wanna learn something. I’m really missing some of the great posters this forum used to have, like Lochness or OJW. Its not the coverage or the level of that the coverage is run at. Me ever has been, never will be. You cannot claim to be here to learn then dismiss what you think is not relevant to you. The biggest problem with learning on this site, not the talent of said coaches players, or the iq of anybodies players, not any scheme discussed. The problem is coaches on this site, point blank in yours and my face.
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Post by joris85 on Jul 8, 2018 13:51:46 GMT -6
My feeling is that back when coach huey actually frequented this forum, he followed through on the “things that make threads go away” message. I am missing that kind of moderation more and more... Not only players on the field, but also us as coaches on this site need the “leaders” to follow through on their rules. We clearly arent holding ourselves accountable, so need other/moderators to do it in our place.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 8, 2018 15:40:24 GMT -6
Winning state doesn’t make you schematically right. It just means you won a state title Usually means you have the best dudes in the state. Not schematics. That may be, but it may also be that you do a lot of other things right, and the thing you're doing wrong isn't enough to bring it all down. Others should not try to copy your wrong thing, thinking all the things you do are championship gold.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 15:50:06 GMT -6
Usually means you have the best dudes in the state. Not schematics. CS ****, That is true. No doubt. But you are now talking out both sides of your mouth. One minute it is all that stuff works and then when you get to week 11+ against great coaches, etc. So you better know what you are doing. The next minute, it is the team with the best athletes. Also, while Saban is the best coach in the land - no doubt in my mind, and possibly the best ever, the BEST thing he does is recruit. He always has the best players and deepest team. Maybe we shouldn't be listening to him. Scheme matters. Exectution matters more. Players matter even more. And some coaches are so damn smart, they know when not to outscheme themselves by trying to outscheme the other team and be in the perfect play call. They use their talent and execution and don't worry about a 5 yard hitch or 5 yard rpo that they know the other team isn't going to beat them with consistently. We shouldn't be listening to Saban because he recruits?? Do we really want to qualify who we should listen to? If yo have a state ship maybe ship maybe we should stop listening to those people as well? Whhat if you said # of scholarship quality athletes?
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Post by wingtol on Jul 8, 2018 18:26:05 GMT -6
Usually means you have the best dudes in the state. Not schematics. This guy gets it...lol Is it weird I read all of his posts in Belichicks voice?
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Jul 8, 2018 18:28:16 GMT -6
I thought the thread in question provided a TON of valuable scheme information if you were reading the nuts and bolts of it. The passion in the thread contributed to some very intense/deep X and O discussion which I know benefited me. There was great opportunities for learning in that thread.
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Post by joelee on Jul 8, 2018 18:50:12 GMT -6
You can learn on here. You just have to put up with some stuff. Also dig in the old threads.
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Post by carookie on Jul 8, 2018 18:57:59 GMT -6
Is it weird I read all of his posts in Belichicks voice? I hope not, because (and I know you aren't supposed to judge a book by its cover) but if anyone has an avatar it immediately picture them as somehow looking like/ sounding like/ or acting like that person.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 8, 2018 21:26:12 GMT -6
CS ****, That is true. No doubt. But you are now talking out both sides of your mouth. One minute it is all that stuff works and then when you get to week 11+ against great coaches, etc. So you better know what you are doing. The next minute, it is the team with the best athletes. Also, while Saban is the best coach in the land - no doubt in my mind, and possibly the best ever, the BEST thing he does is recruit. He always has the best players and deepest team. Maybe we shouldn't be listening to him. Scheme matters. Exectution matters more. Players matter even more. And some coaches are so damn smart, they know when not to outscheme themselves by trying to outscheme the other team and be in the perfect play call. They use their talent and execution and don't worry about a 5 yard hitch or 5 yard rpo that they know the other team isn't going to beat them with consistently. We shouldn't be listening to Saban because he recruits?? Do we really want to qualify who we should listen to? If yo have a state ship maybe ship maybe we should stop listening to those people as well? Whhat if you said # of scholarship quality athletes? You totally missed my sarcasm.
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