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Post by hback41 on Jun 22, 2018 21:47:26 GMT -6
I wrote a rather long post but it was erased. So, here is a slightly shorter version.
A few of the coaches on our staff have been together for 8-9 years off and on. Some of the relationships have been close and others tense. At times, it has been a bit of a soap opera at times. The HC stepped down due to health issues but came back after a season and a half when the new coach who was already on staff also had health issues. HC1 kept HC2's OC. They have never really gotten along.
HC1 decided to take over the offense. This demoted the OC to a position coach. After 3 weeks of spring and a few days of camp, he decided that he needed to go back to the defense. I have been off staff for 2 years. After 7 years on offense, I have been coaching defense. He named me the OC.
Old OC has now been kicked in the nuts twice in 3 months. I completely understand that, but I'm not giving up the spot. HC doesn't plan on firing him, right now. HC wouldn't care if he quit. He isn't going to quit. He told me today that he wishes me luck, but isn't going to help me with anything that deals with OC work including self-scouting our own personnel, plays design/tweaking or play calling.
Here is the beginning of a conversation during a scrimmage today.
Me: "What's up with JJ? Can he not adjust to the ball when it's in the air?"
OC: You see that would be me helping you.
He is upset because he was successful. He was. He also had the #1 or #2 class of players in the 9 years we have been together. In the 2 years he was OC, they had 2 linemen who are playing D1 defensive line, another a two-time all-league lineman, a back who is playing in college and another back who was league MVP. In addition to that, another coach wrote the practice scripts and ran all of the installs. From the perspective of some of the staff, including the HC, he just called the offense on Friday.
See, a damn soap opera. I'm not sure how I should handle this? What do you all think?
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Post by agap on Jun 22, 2018 22:51:38 GMT -6
I don't know what you're looking for. If you're the OC, then run the offense.
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Post by carookie on Jun 22, 2018 22:52:43 GMT -6
I was in a similar situation years ago. I was a lower level coach on a staff at a new school that was becoming something big; after their first year of dominance the DC gets a HC job leaving the spot open. HC and DC had been together for several years (coming over together when HC got the job), so he is in need of a new DC.
The next two in line were: JV HC who was older but had a little bit of time in the league and was a decent guy (we'll call Tom), or JV HC from two years back who had left the staff but wanted back in and had previous experience (we'll call Will). HC goes with Tom, but brings in Will to be an assistant defensive coach, me I'm just gonna coach the LL and do whatever I can to help with Varsity.
Well, about this time (mid June) it becomes apparent that Tom is struggling big time, he tries to keep the defense the same from the previous DC but he just doesn't get it, he struggle communicating with the kids, and is emotionally all over the place. So one June morning, out of the blue to me, HC offers me the Varsity DC spot; I take it but there is definitely some tense moments. I make good with Tom, let him know its his defense and I am just here to help communicate it better; but it becomes abundantly clear very quick he didn't know what he was doing. I spend a lot of the season dealing with him complaining to the HC that I don't listen to him.
Will was another story, he obviously was the next in line for the job but got passed over. He never really showed loyalty to the program by helping out with all the small stuff and NOBODY really trusted him. I'd be lying if I didn't admit he was more prepared than I was at the time (and he knew it), so he spent a lot of the season backstabbing me- even at times to players telling them "he'll try to talk me into doing better things."
I learned a lot that year that influences me today, from which I would advise that you let the HC know how things are and if OC2 won't help then ask him to get him to go (off the staff or to the other side of the ball). There is a power structure in place, and if he refuses to work within the system and help out a superior when called upon then he insubordinate and isn't working for the program. I'm sure his pride is hurt, and he may be a good guy, but right now he's putting himself ahead of the program and that could be dangerous.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 23, 2018 0:36:24 GMT -6
As the OC do you have the ability to fire guys in the offensive staff? This guy sounds like a cancer who needs to go. If he’s not going to help you then what good is he doing there? Position coaches help the coordinator, coordinators help the HC. There’s a breach in the chain of command there. Get him out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 10:07:08 GMT -6
If someone gets demoted and still hangs around you should expect problems
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 23, 2018 10:24:54 GMT -6
Sounds like you gotta have a conversation with the HC. "Hey, you want me as the OC, I need him gone"
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Post by chi5hi on Jun 23, 2018 14:33:50 GMT -6
Me: "What's up with JJ? Can he not adjust to the ball when it's in the air?" OC: You see that would be me helping you. That, in a nutshell, tells me everything. You know, coaches are a team, too. He is not on the team. |
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Post by Coach Vint on Jun 23, 2018 17:07:36 GMT -6
This is poor management to begin with. The question is simple: Is he in or is he out? If he ain't going to contribute he has got to go. It isn't fair to the kids or the program to have a coach on staff who isn't going to do everything he can to help the program. If he can get on board, great. If not, he has to go. You need to communicate this to the head coach. It is better to be down a coach than to have a crappy coach on staff. I get that he has been wronged, but if he is going to play victim he will only poison the program.
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Post by hback41 on Jun 23, 2018 21:00:33 GMT -6
After the last offensive scrimmage of camp today, he told HC that he was not coming back. We'll see what happens when they have their sit down next week.
I told HC that he needed to go to make this work.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 24, 2018 14:59:35 GMT -6
@hback41
The former OC...does he have an offensive position to coach? Or is he a defensive coach only?
If he has an offensive position to coach, then he works for YOU and if you ask him a question about one of his position players, he has an obligation to give you a straight answer. If he is not fulfilling the duties of being a position coach, then he is either incompetent or insubordinate.
Obviously, it sounds like he is being insubordinate. And he is being insubordinate on the field in front of the kids. That can't be tolerated.
You have no control over how the HC addresses the situation. But, I think you need to make it clear to this guy that you are in charge of the offense and if he is going to coach an offensive position, he has an obligation to do his job the way you want it done and contribute in a meaningful way.
If he continues to be a pouty a$$ and your HC doesn't intervene, I would have no problem with you calling this guy out and exposing him in front of the kids...."Hey Coach...what's going on with Jimmy? Why isn't he running the right route?" Make sure you ask him at practice in front of the kids. Put it on him.
And if he continues to be an a$$, stay right on top of him in practice. Don't let him out of sight and certainly not out of earshot. This guy is doing his best to torpedo you.
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Post by fantom on Jun 24, 2018 15:42:10 GMT -6
After the last offensive scrimmage of camp today, he told HC that he was not coming back. We'll see what happens when they have their sit down next week. I told HC that he needed to go to make this work. I'm having a hard time figuring out why you want him back. |
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Post by hback41 on Jun 26, 2018 0:53:18 GMT -6
After the last offensive scrimmage of camp today, he told HC that he was not coming back. We'll see what happens when they have their sit down next week. I told HC that he needed to go to make this work. I'm having a hard time figuring out why you want him back. I do not want him back. I felt for the guy, but then he made it clear that he was going to be on "team me" not our actual team. I talked with the HC and it is completely clear that this won't work with him on the staff. |
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Post by MICoach on Jun 26, 2018 7:56:26 GMT -6
Me: "What's up with JJ? Can he not adjust to the ball when it's in the air?" OC: You see that would be me helping you. That dude is trash. |
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 26, 2018 20:05:46 GMT -6
It doesn't make a difference what he had, he helped in winning those games. He shouldn't have said that stuff, but he is defense and your offense. He shouldn't have to help you, it is your offense. I'm not saying what he said is right, but he got screwed, you will get screwed sometime, that comes with the job. He should have quit the coach position and coached somewhere else, now it is your job to keep or lose.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 26, 2018 22:03:36 GMT -6
It doesn't make a difference what he had, he helped in winning those games. He shouldn't have said that stuff, but he is defense and your offense. He shouldn't have to help you, it is your offense. I'm not saying what he said is right, but he got screwed, you will get screwed sometime, that comes with the job. He should have quit the coach position and coached somewhere else, now it is your job to keep or lose. That isn't how I read it. Although the OP used too many pronouns to be crystal clear, I interpreted his post as the HC went back to defense, promoting the OP to the role of OC over the old OC who was still an offensive position coach. |
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 27, 2018 14:01:16 GMT -6
I read it the other way. Still sounds like a cluster.
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Post by hback41 on Jun 27, 2018 18:38:57 GMT -6
It doesn't make a difference what he had, he helped in winning those games. He shouldn't have said that stuff, but he is defense and your offense. He shouldn't have to help you, it is your offense. I'm not saying what he said is right, but he got screwed, you will get screwed sometime, that comes with the job. He should have quit the coach position and coached somewhere else, now it is your job to keep or lose. That isn't how I read it. Although the OP used too many pronouns to be crystal clear, I interpreted his post as the HC went back to defense, promoting the OP to the role of OC over the old OC who was still an offensive position coach. Sorry about any confusion. I was on D, then shifted to be the OC. The former OC was still coaching offense. |
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Post by coachfitz on Jun 27, 2018 21:09:17 GMT -6
He needs to go
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