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Post by 50slantstrong on Jun 15, 2018 20:13:28 GMT -6
www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/06/15/arizona-high-school-football-passing-tournaments-out-control/692400002/Kudos to some coaches in Arizona for calling like it is with 7-7. "When they win, they lose their freaking minds," Mesa Desert Ridge coach Jeremy Hathcock said. "They trash talk like they're in the NFL. It's hilarious. It's unruly." "It is a great opportunity for coaches to coach. That is the concept of 7-on-7. It's called practice. It has now turned into parents believing that their athlete will be recruited, because of 7-on-7s. This is evident with all the club teams. Any high school coach that has coached at the FBS or FCS level will tell you that they cannot attend any of the 7s competitions, unless on their own campus, as well as they do not find kids to recruit based off of 7-on-7s. "Yet parents are being told the opposite because certain 'gurus' sell it that way for their own reasons." "In the past week I saw the final eight teams in a certain 7-on-7 tournament. Of those eight, six of them either run a wing T offense or an offense that consists primarily of two running backs and one tight end 80 percent of the time. These teams are out there running spread offenses in 7-on-7s, but during the season they will be 75 percent run at minimum and play with more than two receivers probably 20 percent of the time." -Corbin Smith, McClintock Hathcock believes that "club culture" creeping into football is causing more transfers. "You're seeing the middle-of-the-road kids, who are really good high school kids (leaving)," Hathcock said. "You never lost them before. I'm losing them left and right now, because they're teaming up with other teams' kids and being talked up. They're not even Division I kids. That's what I find the most confounding." The competition at some 7-on-7 events is causing Hathcock to re-evaluate their purpose. "I went to one 7-on-7 tournament and I'm never going to go back again," he said. "I got cussed out more by parents. You're not seeing real defenses. It had nothing to do with reality. The officials can't control everything. A couple of fights broke out with us and other teams. I said, 'I'm not doing this again.' ''
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Post by Defcord on Jun 16, 2018 4:33:05 GMT -6
I don’t know if this a good or bad thing:
We lead off our schedule with a team that is a perennial state power. Last year was my first year and it felt like our kids didn’t think they could beat that team. We killed them in 7 on 7 the other day though and I think our kids now feel like they can compete with them. It will be interesting to see if the gained confidence will help us when real football rolls around in the fall.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 16, 2018 10:01:51 GMT -6
I don’t know if this a good or bad thing: We lead off our schedule with a team that is a perennial state power. Last year was my first year and it felt like our kids didn’t think they could beat that team. We killed them in 7 on 7 the other day though and I think our kids now feel like they can compete with them. It will be interesting to see if the gained confidence will help us when real football rolls around in the fall. How do you think your QB will react the first time he gets hit in the mouth? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 10:52:13 GMT -6
Not a fan of 7 on 7, i always have to get our QBs back into season mode after a few months of 7o7
Always looking to throw deep, too damn long in the pocket,even with a timer trying to make full field reads etc..
Id rather just practice
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Post by Defcord on Jun 16, 2018 11:35:59 GMT -6
I don’t know if this a good or bad thing: We lead off our schedule with a team that is a perennial state power. Last year was my first year and it felt like our kids didn’t think they could beat that team. We killed them in 7 on 7 the other day though and I think our kids now feel like they can compete with them. It will be interesting to see if the gained confidence will help us when real football rolls around in the fall. How do you think your QB will react the first time he gets hit in the mouth? I coach the offensive line so hopefully that doesn’t happen too often. Do you think 7 on 7 gives qbs a false sense of security in their approach to the game? Our kid will be a three year starter so he will be fine after taking a shot, but the next couple kids in line won’t have had the opportunity to play through pressure so 7 on 7 could get them in a comfort zone that isn’t replicated in the real game. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 16, 2018 11:56:42 GMT -6
How do you think your QB will react the first time he gets hit in the mouth? Do you think 7 on 7 gives qbs a false sense of security in their approach to the game? I absolutely 100% do. It also gives the WRs a sense of security as well, but with changing rules regarding defensive play, that sense may not be as false as it once was years ago (which for the future of the game is probably for the best) |
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Post by 50slantstrong on Jun 16, 2018 12:32:37 GMT -6
7-7 is inherently not a bad thing. If you manage it right, and actually run a real part of your offense and coach the ish out of your normal coverages, you can definitely get better.
Unfortunately between the gurus and clubs acting like agents for their players, college coaches like Jimbo Fisher dignifying them and a few HS coaches turning it into its own season, it’s just too much of a ish show. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze with these tournaments. We just throw with a couple neighboring schools with coaches we know are going to run their actual offense and defense and not let their kids act like a bunch of clowns every time they catch a deep pass.
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Post by CS on Jun 16, 2018 14:10:18 GMT -6
We only do team camps and it seems like the trend around here is going to team camps.
I don’t like 7on7 as a defensive guy because it forms bad habits. In practice when we do 7on7 I put runs in on purpose because I don’t want any the linebackers just doing straight pass drops because they know a pass is coming.
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 19, 2018 8:37:24 GMT -6
It is a beast that has grown. I'm glad that we don't do it.
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Post by aceback76 on Jun 19, 2018 9:42:16 GMT -6
This is just in OUR CASE: We LOVE it for our BEST offense vs. our BEST defense. They COMPETE this way:
1. Offense gets 1 point per completion.
2. Defense gets 1 point for an in-completion.
3. Defense gets 3 points for an interception.
We CONTROL the clock: For 3 step passes, the buzzer goes off in 1.8. For 5 step passes, the buzzer goes off in 2.3. THIS WAY = we have to "THROW RECEIVERS OPEN", rather than WAITING for them to come open!
NOTE: We send 4 rushers (less than half-speed) who do not attempt to tackle passer of knock the ball down, BUT, it helps the QB get used to looking THRU the rush.
**************************************
"ADVANCED 7 vs. 7" (in our PRACTICE). NOTE: We are NOT an "Air Raid" team, but this is something the Air Raid people took from LaVell Edwards at BYU (Mumme & Leach read the "B.L.S" on many of their passes). It has REALLY HELPED us:
CONDUCTING THE DRILL: The defense calls a coverage to line up in and a coverage to move to once the ball is snapped (I.E. "line up in Cover 1, move to Cover 2). The QB then calls out the alignment he sees on his Pre-Snap look - "looks like Cover 1". He then takes the snap and as soon as he recognizes the coverage being PLAYED, calls it out during the drop - "Cover 2". This teaches all your skill people not only how to recognize the coverage but many of the TECHNIQUES involved in each alignment.
Using what I have described above, "7 on 7" is a vital part of our "Large Group" teaching.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 19, 2018 10:30:44 GMT -6
Cover II Man Under! The only defense you will ever need!  |
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Post by mikeballestero on Jun 19, 2018 12:22:14 GMT -6
Justin Alumbough (De La Salle), Manuel Douglas (Narbonne), Kris Richardson (Folsom) All quoted as saying that the club teams are producing a lot of "Me first" mentality. Kenny Sanchez (Bishop Gorman) and the Great Bob Ladoucer (De La Salle) talk about the bad habits that kids come back to school with that they have to un-train. Those names represent 15+ national championships and a ton of state and section titles in CA and NV. Aside from 7 on 7 being "fun" for the kids during the off season it is hard to find a lot of good in it's rising popularity.
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Post by aceback76 on Jun 19, 2018 12:42:45 GMT -6
This is just in OUR CASE: We LOVE it for our BEST offense vs. our BEST defense, but we CONTROL the clock. For 3 step passes, the buzzer goes off in 1.8. For 5 step passes, the buzzer goes off in 2.3. THIS WAY = we have to "THROW RECEIVERS OPEN", rather than WAITING for them to come open! NOTE: We send 4 rushers (less than half-speed) who do not attempt to tackle passer of knock the ball down, BUT, it helps the QB get used to looking THRU the rush. ************************************** "ADVANCED 7 vs. 7" (in our PRACTICE). NOTE: We are NOT an "Air Raid" team, but this is something the Air Raid people took from LaVell Edwards at BYU (Mumme & Leach read the "B.L.S" on many of their passes). It has REALLY HELPED us: CONDUCTING THE DRILL: The defense calls a coverage to line up in and a coverage to move to once the ball is snapped (I.E. "line up in Cover 1, move to Cover 2). The QB then calls out the alignment he sees on his Pre-Snap look - "looks like Cover 1". He then takes the snap and as soon as he recognizes the coverage being PLAYED, calls it out during the drop - "Cover 2". This teaches all your skill people not only how to recognize the coverage but many of the TECHNIQUES involved in each alignment. Using what I have described above, "7 on 7" is a vital part of our "Large Group" teaching. I learned HOW to Coach QB's from Dan Henning & Don Breaux, thus, they are the only people I let COACH my QB's besides myself (at Dan's "Professional Specialist Camp", that I worked at). We don't "send our QB's off" to other Camps, etc. (unless I know WHO is coaching them, & HOW they teach QBing). We take our own players to "7 on 7" competition, etc. Strongly suggest video of it for study (looking for "correctable mistakes"). |
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Post by fkaboneyard on Jun 19, 2018 14:10:01 GMT -6
I don't like 7-7 because our linebackers bail at the snap but it does help our corners learn to defend. We're primarily a run team so they don't do much for our offense. We competed against a regular season team in a tournament and did not do well. Going into the regular season game the opponent was confident that they were going to stomp us but we ended up putting up nearly 600 rushing yards and completely blew them out of the game. A dad on the chain gang said he overheard players & coaches saying, "This isn't the same team we played in 7-7." So Defcord, the confidence builder is good but you have to manage it and know that things will likely be entirely different. |
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Post by silkyice on Jun 19, 2018 14:54:39 GMT -6
I don't like 7-7 because our linebackers bail at the snap but it does help our corners learn to defend. We're primarily a run team so they don't do much for our offense. We competed against a regular season team in a tournament and did not do well. Going into the regular season game the opponent was confident that they were going to stomp us but we ended up putting up nearly 600 rushing yards and completely blew them out of the game. A dad on the chain gang said he overheard players & coaches saying, "This isn't the same team we played in 7-7." So Defcord, the confidence builder is good but you have to manage it and know that things will likely be entirely different. LOVE THIS |
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Post by Defcord on Jun 19, 2018 15:39:46 GMT -6
I don't like 7-7 because our linebackers bail at the snap but it does help our corners learn to defend. We're primarily a run team so they don't do much for our offense. We competed against a regular season team in a tournament and did not do well. Going into the regular season game the opponent was confident that they were going to stomp us but we ended up putting up nearly 600 rushing yards and completely blew them out of the game. A dad on the chain gang said he overheard players & coaches saying, "This isn't the same team we played in 7-7." So Defcord , the confidence builder is good but you have to manage it and know that things will likely be entirely different. That's a great point. I might use your story as a cautionary tale. Thanks for sharing! |
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Post by coachgreen05 on Jun 19, 2018 17:39:15 GMT -6
I don’t know if this a good or bad thing: We lead off our schedule with a team that is a perennial state power. Last year was my first year and it felt like our kids didn’t think they could beat that team. We killed them in 7 on 7 the other day though and I think our kids now feel like they can compete with them. It will be interesting to see if the gained confidence will help us when real football rolls around in the fall. Im almost sure they are state power because of how they play up front. |
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Post by Defcord on Jun 20, 2018 3:42:37 GMT -6
I don’t know if this a good or bad thing: We lead off our schedule with a team that is a perennial state power. Last year was my first year and it felt like our kids didn’t think they could beat that team. We killed them in 7 on 7 the other day though and I think our kids now feel like they can compete with them. It will be interesting to see if the gained confidence will help us when real football rolls around in the fall. Im almost sure they are state power because of how they play up front. They are assuredly a state power for a multitude of reasons. They are well coached so they play sound and fast. They are darn good. I by no means think beating them in 7 on 7 think that we have accomplished anything significant yet. I do think there is the potential that our kids have shifted their mindset to feel they can compete with this team. I am just hoping it isn’t a false sense of accomplishment that farmers over confidence. |
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Post by irishdog on Jun 20, 2018 10:27:23 GMT -6
We are a run based offense in a league of spread teams. I chose to have my boys compete in a 7's league during the summer so my defensive guys could get a look at pass-oriented offenses that we would likely see, and get some good practice reps. I purposely had my LB's take a two count on the snap to avoid bailing. Offensively we ran our normal play-action, quick game, and sprint-out stuff which drove our 7's opponents nuts because most of them don't face teams like us every week during the season. I told our guys the only expectations we had as coaches was to see them compete, and practice getting better at what we do during the season. If we win at 7 on 7 that's fine, if not, it isn't real football so no big deal.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 21, 2018 2:25:37 GMT -6
I don't like 7-7 because our linebackers bail at the snap but it does help our corners learn to defend. We're primarily a run team so they don't do much for our offense. We competed against a regular season team in a tournament and did not do well. Going into the regular season game the opponent was confident that they were going to stomp us but we ended up putting up nearly 600 rushing yards and completely blew them out of the game. A dad on the chain gang said he overheard players & coaches saying, "This isn't the same team we played in 7-7." So Defcord, the confidence builder is good but you have to manage it and know that things will likely be entirely different. It seems we always get killed by a team in our schedule during 7 on 7 and then the tide completely turns when real football starts. And we’re a team that likes to throw the ball. |
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Post by wingtol on Jun 23, 2018 8:22:55 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Jun 23, 2018 8:41:52 GMT -6
We had a big one around here a few years ago. Push came to shove, literally, between a local team and a team from out of town (Both school teams). A melee ensued during which a local kid got his jaw broken. The police were called and they stopped the out of town team's bus while their coach was trying to rush them away. They don't hold that tournament anymore. |
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Post by mountainman on Jun 26, 2018 11:24:01 GMT -6
www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/06/15/arizona-high-school-football-passing-tournaments-out-control/692400002/Kudos to some coaches in Arizona for calling like it is with 7-7. "When they win, they lose their freaking minds," Mesa Desert Ridge coach Jeremy Hathcock said. "They trash talk like they're in the NFL. It's hilarious. It's unruly." "It is a great opportunity for coaches to coach. That is the concept of 7-on-7. It's called practice. It has now turned into parents believing that their athlete will be recruited, because of 7-on-7s. This is evident with all the club teams. Any high school coach that has coached at the FBS or FCS level will tell you that they cannot attend any of the 7s competitions, unless on their own campus, as well as they do not find kids to recruit based off of 7-on-7s. "Yet parents are being told the opposite because certain 'gurus' sell it that way for their own reasons." "In the past week I saw the final eight teams in a certain 7-on-7 tournament. Of those eight, six of them either run a wing T offense or an offense that consists primarily of two running backs and one tight end 80 percent of the time. These teams are out there running spread offenses in 7-on-7s, but during the season they will be 75 percent run at minimum and play with more than two receivers probably 20 percent of the time." -Corbin Smith, McClintock Hathcock believes that "club culture" creeping into football is causing more transfers. "You're seeing the middle-of-the-road kids, who are really good high school kids (leaving)," Hathcock said. "You never lost them before. I'm losing them left and right now, because they're teaming up with other teams' kids and being talked up. They're not even Division I kids. That's what I find the most confounding." The competition at some 7-on-7 events is causing Hathcock to re-evaluate their purpose. "I went to one 7-on-7 tournament and I'm never going to go back again," he said. "I got cussed out more by parents. You're not seeing real defenses. It had nothing to do with reality. The officials can't control everything. A couple of fights broke out with us and other teams. I said, 'I'm not doing this again.' '' I know Coach Hathcock pretty well and agree with his assessment of 7 on 7 and where it has gone. I have always run the drop back and roll out portion of our offense and played our base coverages. We played Desert Ridge this season in 7 on 7 and he definitely ran his system (wing T boots, waggles & play action). We played another team that was two man with the safety walked down helping to press cover our #1 receiver and throwing passes in areas that would normally be covered by our NT. I talked to the coach at halftime and he assured me that was their normal defense and normal passing game. I got a little pissed and went doubles, put our fastest kid at RB and just ran him down the middle of the field one on one with their MLB for a few easy scores to win the game. Afterwards I was disgusted with myself for losing my cool and falling into the 7 on 7 Trap. Swore I’d quit 7 on 7 entirely before I did it again. It’s become ridiculous. I even heard one of our parents complaining that it wasn’t fair because they had 7 defenders and we were only sending out 5 receivers. The insinuation was that I was an idiot and should get a couple more guys out there. |
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Post by 50slantstrong on Jun 26, 2018 11:27:19 GMT -6
www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/06/15/arizona-high-school-football-passing-tournaments-out-control/692400002/Kudos to some coaches in Arizona for calling like it is with 7-7. "When they win, they lose their freaking minds," Mesa Desert Ridge coach Jeremy Hathcock said. "They trash talk like they're in the NFL. It's hilarious. It's unruly." "It is a great opportunity for coaches to coach. That is the concept of 7-on-7. It's called practice. It has now turned into parents believing that their athlete will be recruited, because of 7-on-7s. This is evident with all the club teams. Any high school coach that has coached at the FBS or FCS level will tell you that they cannot attend any of the 7s competitions, unless on their own campus, as well as they do not find kids to recruit based off of 7-on-7s. "Yet parents are being told the opposite because certain 'gurus' sell it that way for their own reasons." "In the past week I saw the final eight teams in a certain 7-on-7 tournament. Of those eight, six of them either run a wing T offense or an offense that consists primarily of two running backs and one tight end 80 percent of the time. These teams are out there running spread offenses in 7-on-7s, but during the season they will be 75 percent run at minimum and play with more than two receivers probably 20 percent of the time." -Corbin Smith, McClintock Hathcock believes that "club culture" creeping into football is causing more transfers. "You're seeing the middle-of-the-road kids, who are really good high school kids (leaving)," Hathcock said. "You never lost them before. I'm losing them left and right now, because they're teaming up with other teams' kids and being talked up. They're not even Division I kids. That's what I find the most confounding." The competition at some 7-on-7 events is causing Hathcock to re-evaluate their purpose. "I went to one 7-on-7 tournament and I'm never going to go back again," he said. "I got cussed out more by parents. You're not seeing real defenses. It had nothing to do with reality. The officials can't control everything. A couple of fights broke out with us and other teams. I said, 'I'm not doing this again.' '' I know Coach Hathcock pretty well and agree with his assessment of 7 on 7 and where it has gone. I have always run the drop back and roll out portion of our offense and played our base coverages. We played Desert Ridge this season in 7 on 7 and he definitely ran his system (wing T boots, waggles & play action). We played another team that was two man with the safety walked down helping to press cover our #1 receiver and throwing passes in areas that would normally be covered by our NT. I talked to the coach at halftime and he assured me that was their normal defense and normal passing game. I got a little pissed and went doubles, put our fastest kid at RB and just ran him down the middle of the field one on one with their MLB for a few easy scores to win the game. Afterwards I was disgusted with myself for losing my cool and falling into the 7 on 7 Trap. Swore I’d quit 7 on 7 entirely before I did it again. It’s become ridiculous. I even heard one of our parents complaining that it wasn’t fair because they had 7 defenders and we were only sending out 5 receivers. The insinuation was that I was an idiot and should get a couple more guys out there. Is that story about the Arcadia coach true? If so, he’s got my vote for douche of the year. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 26, 2018 11:27:25 GMT -6
It’s become ridiculous. I even heard one of our parents complaining that it wasn’t fair because they had 7 defenders and we were only sending out 5 receivers. The insinuation was that I was an idiot and should get a couple more guys out there. Well, that might be kind of our fault as coaches. We call it 7 on 7, but it really isn't. I could easily see how someone would assume what that parent assumed LOL. I think the solution has been mentioned many times. Do pass skell practice with like minded coaches in a controlled environment. |
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Post by mountainman on Jun 26, 2018 14:24:50 GMT -6
I’m not sure if that story is rrue or not (I wasn’t there) but I have heard Numerous complaints by good coaches that the behavior of Arcadia has been deplorable this summer.
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Post by mountainman on Jun 26, 2018 14:27:24 GMT -6
It’s become ridiculous. I even heard one of our parents complaining that it wasn’t fair because they had 7 defenders and we were only sending out 5 receivers. The insinuation was that I was an idiot and should get a couple more guys out there. Well, that might be kind of our fault as coaches. We call it 7 on 7, but it really isn't. I could easily see how someone would assume what that parent assumed LOL. I think the solution has been mentioned many times. Do pass skell practice with like minded coaches in a controlled environment. I have alway called it skeleton or pass skelly until the last couple of years. With the 7 on 7 clubs, tournaments, etc. people look at you with two heads when you use the term skelly. At some point I guess 7 on 7 entered my vocabulary. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 26, 2018 16:12:22 GMT -6
Well, that might be kind of our fault as coaches. We call it 7 on 7, but it really isn't. I could easily see how someone would assume what that parent assumed LOL. I think the solution has been mentioned many times. Do pass skell practice with like minded coaches in a controlled environment. I have alway called it skeleton or pass skelly until the last couple of years. With the 7 on 7 clubs, tournaments, etc. people look at you with two heads when you use the term skelly. At some point I guess 7 on 7 entered my vocabulary. To clarify, I wasn't disagreeing with you or disparaging you at all. I am sure I have called it 7-7 many times. I had never thought of it until I read your post, but the fact that we call it 7 on 7, when it really is 5 on 7 (who counts the center, and QB can't run) just seems funny. Like saying you are playing 5-5 basketball but one guy just stands there, and one guy can't ever shoot. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 26, 2018 16:23:57 GMT -6
I have alway called it skeleton or pass skelly until the last couple of years. With the 7 on 7 clubs, tournaments, etc. people look at you with two heads when you use the term skelly. At some point I guess 7 on 7 entered my vocabulary. To clarify, I wasn't disagreeing with you or disparaging you at all. I am sure I have called it 7-7 many times. I had never thought of it until I read your post, but the fact that we call it 7 on 7, when it really is 5 on 7 (who counts the center, and QB can't run) just seems funny. Like saying you are playing 5-5 basketball but one guy just stands there, and one guy can't ever shoot. One thing that I really hate about 7 on 7 is wasting a kid's day snapping the ball. BTW, the basketball team that you described sounds like a lot of teams that I've seen. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 17:40:58 GMT -6
www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/06/15/arizona-high-school-football-passing-tournaments-out-control/692400002/Kudos to some coaches in Arizona for calling like it is with 7-7. "When they win, they lose their freaking minds," Mesa Desert Ridge coach Jeremy Hathcock said. "They trash talk like they're in the NFL. It's hilarious. It's unruly." "It is a great opportunity for coaches to coach. That is the concept of 7-on-7. It's called practice. It has now turned into parents believing that their athlete will be recruited, because of 7-on-7s. This is evident with all the club teams. Any high school coach that has coached at the FBS or FCS level will tell you that they cannot attend any of the 7s competitions, unless on their own campus, as well as they do not find kids to recruit based off of 7-on-7s. "Yet parents are being told the opposite because certain 'gurus' sell it that way for their own reasons." "In the past week I saw the final eight teams in a certain 7-on-7 tournament. Of those eight, six of them either run a wing T offense or an offense that consists primarily of two running backs and one tight end 80 percent of the time. These teams are out there running spread offenses in 7-on-7s, but during the season they will be 75 percent run at minimum and play with more than two receivers probably 20 percent of the time." -Corbin Smith, McClintock Hathcock believes that "club culture" creeping into football is causing more transfers. "You're seeing the middle-of-the-road kids, who are really good high school kids (leaving)," Hathcock said. "You never lost them before. I'm losing them left and right now, because they're teaming up with other teams' kids and being talked up. They're not even Division I kids. That's what I find the most confounding." The competition at some 7-on-7 events is causing Hathcock to re-evaluate their purpose. "I went to one 7-on-7 tournament and I'm never going to go back again," he said. "I got cussed out more by parents. You're not seeing real defenses. It had nothing to do with reality. The officials can't control everything. A couple of fights broke out with us and other teams. I said, 'I'm not doing this again.' '' the real threat, problem arising from 7v7 and you are seeing this in the NFL of all places, is the belief that football can survive without blocking and tackling. Player safety is just a cover to get there imo. |
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