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Post by utchuckd on Mar 28, 2018 6:00:01 GMT -6
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Playing Rule Article 8: It is a foul if a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent. The player may be disqualified. Applies to any player anywhere on the field. The player may be disqualified.</p>— Brian McCarthy (@nflprguy) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLprguy/status/978732318130139136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> .
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Post by BrendanQB on Mar 28, 2018 14:54:54 GMT -6
Should be interesting to see how the referees enforce this rule. Tacklers' helmets make contact with ball carriers all the time and I guarantee you most of that contact is unintentional from the tackler.
I personally don't like the rule. So many plays are bang-bang where all it takes is one subtle movement from the ball carrier and now the defensive player's in a spot where he's tackling illegally
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Post by fantom on Mar 28, 2018 15:27:32 GMT -6
Should be interesting to see how the referees enforce this rule. Tacklers' helmets make contact with ball carriers all the time and I guarantee you most of that contact is unintentional from the tackler. I personally don't like the rule. So many plays are bang-bang where all it takes is one subtle movement from the ball carrier and now the defensive player's in a spot where he's tackling illegally This rule also applies to offensive players.
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Post by bignose on Mar 28, 2018 16:03:02 GMT -6
OK so they got rid of the screwed up catch rule and replaced it with this ridiculous and impossible to officiate new rule.
I understand that the intent is to attempt to appear to be cutting down on head injuries, but really? This will just lengthen the game more as they go to replay to check to see if the officials got it right (sell more beer).
And wait until star players get ejected for lowering the head while running the ball, as they duck to keep from getting decapitated...... Maybe try coming up with a safer helmet?
And they refuse to do anything about pass interference? I hate having an official's judgement call making such a huge difference in the game: It's 3rd and 10 and we're behind by 5 points. Go out 30 yards and get interfered with seems to be a good huddle call! I like the college rule better and change the catch requirement to only having one foot in bounds to balance this out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 19:54:48 GMT -6
Just admit it's wwe make player sign waivers acknowledging risk, and lets play football. Or just put flags on em and become absolutely irrelevant on national scene.better yet, let's get another league, independent of the NFL, that actually wants blocking and tackling fb.
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Post by carookie on Mar 28, 2018 20:59:11 GMT -6
At first I thought, like many, that this would be a rule that if enforced would lead to multiple ejections; I mean you can't tackle with your shoulder without lowering your helmet, runners lower their helmets all the time, and frankly helmets are so big that they will always end up making contact.
But then I re-evaluated it, "It is a foul if a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent."
So basically its just no leading with the helmet and initiating contact with it; which is somewhat better than the way I initially thought. I imagine in most cases the refs will use discretion and not default to ejection.
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Post by BrendanQB on Mar 28, 2018 21:17:06 GMT -6
Should be interesting to see how the referees enforce this rule. Tacklers' helmets make contact with ball carriers all the time and I guarantee you most of that contact is unintentional from the tackler. I personally don't like the rule. So many plays are bang-bang where all it takes is one subtle movement from the ball carrier and now the defensive player's in a spot where he's tackling illegally This rule also applies to offensive players. Backs up my point even more. Runningbacks lower their shoulders and by extension, their heads before contact all the time. There's a good point above that this contact with the helmet has to "Initiate" contact and maybe that'll make it easier to officiate, but I still think it's unnecessary. Will definitely cause a lot of review time and reviews of disqualifications
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Post by fantom on Mar 28, 2018 21:21:57 GMT -6
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Post by bobgoodman on Mar 29, 2018 15:45:57 GMT -6
When they write "lowers his head", they really must mean "flexes his neck" or "forward-flexes his neck". Otherwise every "Z in the knee", every "low pad level" would mean lowering your head.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 6:03:31 GMT -6
When they write "lowers his head", they really must mean "flexes his neck" or "forward-flexes his neck". Otherwise every "Z in the knee", every "low pad level" would mean lowering your head. if it's any form of lowering your head is the deal, game over!
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Post by coachdmyers on Apr 9, 2018 10:39:37 GMT -6
This rule also applies to offensive players. Backs up my point even more. Runningbacks lower their shoulders and by extension, their heads before contact all the time. There's a good point above that this contact with the helmet has to "Initiate" contact and maybe that'll make it easier to officiate, but I still think it's unnecessary. Will definitely cause a lot of review time and reviews of disqualifications We're supposed to be teaching kids to specifically *not* do what you're describing. Lower the shoulder, keep the head up. It's just a stronger disincentive to engaging in unsafe technique.
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 19, 2018 15:42:03 GMT -6
Backs up my point even more. Runningbacks lower their shoulders and by extension, their heads before contact all the time. There's a good point above that this contact with the helmet has to "Initiate" contact and maybe that'll make it easier to officiate, but I still think it's unnecessary. Will definitely cause a lot of review time and reviews of disqualifications We're supposed to be teaching kids to specifically *not* do what you're describing. Lower the shoulder, keep the head up. It's just a stronger disincentive to engaging in unsafe technique. I'm not saying we're teaching the kids the wrong technique. I'm saying that no matter how much technique you teach, sometimes the head's gonna drop a little (NOT INTENTIONALLY, JUST INSTINCTIVELY). My point is that flagging that isn't going to be a good look. I'm all for flagging the intentional ones, but the rule doesn't seem like it allows for any judgment by the refs
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Post by fantom on Apr 19, 2018 16:47:59 GMT -6
We're supposed to be teaching kids to specifically *not* do what you're describing. Lower the shoulder, keep the head up. It's just a stronger disincentive to engaging in unsafe technique. I'm not saying we're teaching the kids the wrong technique. I'm saying that no matter how much technique you teach, sometimes the head's gonna drop a little (NOT INTENTIONALLY, JUST INSTINCTIVELY). My point is that flagging that isn't going to be a good look. I'm all for flagging the intentional ones, but the rule doesn't seem like it allows for any judgment by the refs The key phrase is, "Lower their head to initiate contact".
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Post by BrendanQB on Apr 19, 2018 17:27:46 GMT -6
I'm not saying we're teaching the kids the wrong technique. I'm saying that no matter how much technique you teach, sometimes the head's gonna drop a little (NOT INTENTIONALLY, JUST INSTINCTIVELY). My point is that flagging that isn't going to be a good look. I'm all for flagging the intentional ones, but the rule doesn't seem like it allows for any judgment by the refs The key phrase is, "Lower their head to initiate contact". That clears it up a little bit. I still think there's a lot of judgment that can go into that though. Interesting to see how the officials call it
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Post by funkfriss on Apr 20, 2018 8:19:56 GMT -6
Isn't this rule already in the books and isn't it called spearing? The problem I have with these rules is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to not lead with the head when you go for any tackle, especially a low tackle. We're not turtles, we can't suck in our heads so that our shoulders are the leading body part. Even when tackling high, your head is what is "leading" your body. That said, when I go to tackle, or lower my shoulder as a runner, even if I have no intention of hitting with my helmet is going to happen at some point because people move. Ridiculous rule... Or maybe we should just make this legal??
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Post by coachdmyers on Apr 20, 2018 11:40:30 GMT -6
We're supposed to be teaching kids to specifically *not* do what you're describing. Lower the shoulder, keep the head up. It's just a stronger disincentive to engaging in unsafe technique. I'm not saying we're teaching the kids the wrong technique. I'm saying that no matter how much technique you teach, sometimes the head's gonna drop a little (NOT INTENTIONALLY, JUST INSTINCTIVELY). My point is that flagging that isn't going to be a good look. I'm all for flagging the intentional ones, but the rule doesn't seem like it allows for any judgment by the refs Kids frequently do the wrong thing instinctively and we spend time coaching it out of them. Seems like the point of the rule is to create an incentive for us to all spend more time coaching this one out of them. I don't think that's too bad of a thing.
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Post by fantom on Apr 20, 2018 11:50:48 GMT -6
I'm not saying we're teaching the kids the wrong technique. I'm saying that no matter how much technique you teach, sometimes the head's gonna drop a little (NOT INTENTIONALLY, JUST INSTINCTIVELY). My point is that flagging that isn't going to be a good look. I'm all for flagging the intentional ones, but the rule doesn't seem like it allows for any judgment by the refs Kids frequently do the wrong thing instinctively and we spend time coaching it out of them. Seems like the point of the rule is to create an incentive for us to all spend more time coaching this one out of them. I don't think that's too bad of a thing. To me this falls under the same heading as the "Sky is falling" thread from a while back. This rule is only penalizing a practice that hasn't been coached since I was a player decades ago. To me the people who find the new rule confusing are pro football analysts, who rarely watch college football and may have never seen a HS game. When I hear about how NFL players are going to change the way they've been playing all their lives I shake my head. Maybe their pro careers but not the way they played in HS and college.
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 22, 2018 8:02:57 GMT -6
Isn't this rule already in the books and isn't it called spearing? The problem I have with these rules is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to not lead with the head when you go for any tackle, especially a low tackle. We're not turtles, we can't suck in our heads so that our shoulders are the leading body part. Even when tackling high, your head is what is "leading" your body. That said, when I go to tackle, or lower my shoulder as a runner, even if I have no intention of hitting with my helmet is going to happen at some point because people move. Ridiculous rule... What the rules makers are trying to do is to make everyone play as if they weren't wearing helmets, even though the rules also require them to wear helmets. Maybe they should mandate helmets w razor blades on the inside instead of padding.
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 22, 2018 10:28:44 GMT -6
Million Dollar Idea for somebody: A shoulder pad integrated HANS device for the football helmet.
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Post by bignose on Apr 22, 2018 11:07:51 GMT -6
Million Dollar Idea for somebody: A shoulder pad integrated HANS device for the football helmet. They tried straps, and collars as a way of restraining helmet movement, but as I recall, the straps in particular, created more problems than they solved. In some cases the leverage actually increased the force on the neck. Soft helmets wouldn't work either, unless a way can be found to keep soft padding exteriors from tending to stick as they hit, causing torque on the neck, rather than sliding off one another as the hard shells do. The bottom line is that nobody wants a helmet that makes them look like a bobble head. I guess that as an "old fart" I think about ball carriers like Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, and John Riggins, runners who would lower their helmet and drive thru defenders. This is now an illegal tactic, and I can't wait to hear the uproar when some of the power runners in the league getting kicked out for doing this.
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Post by fantom on Apr 22, 2018 11:32:53 GMT -6
Million Dollar Idea for somebody: A shoulder pad integrated HANS device for the football helmet. They tried straps, and collars as a way of restraining helmet movement, but as I recall, the straps in particular, created more problems than they solved. In some cases the leverage actually increased the force on the neck. Soft helmets wouldn't work either, unless a way can be found to keep soft padding exteriors from tending to stick as they hit, causing torque on the neck, rather than sliding off one another as the hard shells do. The bottom line is that nobody wants a helmet that makes them look like a bobble head. I guess that as an "old fart" I think about ball carriers like Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, and John Riggins, runners who would lower their helmet and drive thru defenders. This is now an illegal tactic, and I can't wait to hear the uproar when some of the power runners in the league getting kicked out for doing this. None of these plays, not even the one at 3:54, are illegal.
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 22, 2018 13:37:25 GMT -6
I guess that as an "old fart" I think about ball carriers like Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, and John Riggins, runners who would lower their helmet and drive thru defenders. This is now an illegal tactic, and I can't wait to hear the uproar when some of the power runners in the league getting kicked out for doing this. The mental picture I get of Csonka, Pete Johnson, & other noted FBs always included a rotation of the shoulders so they'd wind up w one low shoulder hitting w a slight uppercut. They may have contacted the opponent's head, but then it was that opponent's responsibility to get it out of the way of the runner's shoulder. Use that form -- if you're great enough to develop it -- & you'll not only dish out more than you take, but you'll stay legal. That is, unless they switch the responsibility to the runner to avoid hitting the opponent's head! I'd love to be able to coach that form, but I don't know how I'd do it! It always looked to me from that mental snapshot that the FB had to know just when to assume that posture. Do it too early, you face plant. Too late, you get popped in the chest by an opponent who gets that shoulder in 1st. DumCoach has a "pinball" drill for kids to practice doing this, & maybe w enough reps they just get into that groove. But if it were that easy, there'd've been a lot of other great FBs!
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Post by coachcb on Apr 26, 2018 9:51:21 GMT -6
I imagine it'll end up being enforced the same way the it is now; the players will be flagged if they initiate contact with the any part of the helmet above the face-mask. It's basically the only way to make the call and remain consistent. Players will inevitably make contact with their face masks, regardless of the technique that's being taught. Yes, a player may come in and attempt to initiate contact with their shoulder pads but that may or may not happen depending on the opposing player's movement and reaction. A ball carrier lowers their shoulder on a tackler and contact is inadvertently made with his facemask. There's not much to be done there.
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Post by coachmonkey on May 8, 2018 11:13:20 GMT -6
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Playing Rule Article 8: It is a foul if a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent. The player may be disqualified. Applies to any player anywhere on the field. The player may be disqualified.</p>— Brian McCarthy (@nflprguy) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLprguy/status/978732318130139136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
. Pretty sure this is/was already a rule. You cannot spear an opponent. If the NFL had called this all along we'd be in a much better place now.
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Post by carookie on Jun 2, 2018 17:37:29 GMT -6
So the NFL has tried to clarify with the video shown here: twitter.com/NFLFootballOpsI am more confused. It appears that amount of force utilized seems to be a factor in the examples (hit someone hard and we will kick you out). Out side of this there are a couple foolish parts: a player has to lower "his helmet to establish a linear body posture prior to initiating and making contact with the the helmet". This seems to ignore the fact that if you try to tackle with your shoulder you will also establish a linear body posture prior to initiating and making contact'. So if you try to tackle with your shoulder, but end up hitting the ball carrier with your helmet (which is hard not to do) then its a foul. Of course the most asinine part of the explanation is, the "player delivering the blow had other options." WHAT?!?! Like not making the tackle? Not making the block? There are always 'other options' they just tend to not be conducive to winning football games.
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