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Post by Coach Vice on Mar 8, 2018 7:54:53 GMT -6
So here's my issue....stay with me as long as possible. I start structured weight room every year on the first week of December and it runs throughout the school year and summer, as most programs do. I invite ALL (girls and boys) athletic programs to lift with us and offer to tailor their workouts to what ever the coach might want, specifically the in-season teams so that it might take some burden off of the head coach in concerning him/her self with training. I do this for 2 reasons: 1. I think that EVERY kid in our athletics program should be in the weight room and lifting properly with a structured program suited to their needs. 2. I want to take some burden off of our head coaches who are in-season or pre-season, as it's not that hard for me to work with their athletes when I'm off-season.
All of that being said, I only have a few programs that take me up on the offer (girls soccer, girls softball, and girls basketball). None of the other sports lift on their own regardless of the time of year. That brings me to the first question:
Why the crap wouldn't you want someone to train your athletes with absolutely NO extra effort, responsibility, or time required of you?
I'm asking this because many of those in-season kids are MY football players. I want them to train, but their coaches won't let them train in-season (even if it's only twice a week.)
ISSUE NUMBER 2.
The varsity track coaches (boys and girls.. they co-coach both teams). Don't spend ONE SECOND with their athletes outside of their scheduled season until about 3 weeks before their first meet. At that point they approach the AD and tell him they want the weight room for themselves after school (3:00) until 4:45. Despite the fact that I fill out a yearly calendar and reserve the WR for after school lifting (for all sports) in advance. The AD has caved to this for the past 3 years (including this year) and told us that we're out. Here's my problem... I've been training my athletes (many of which are THEIR athletes) since November and now they want to demand the weight room to themselves 3 weeks before their season? To be clear, they're not doing this because they don't understand or because they're simply unaware...they're D-bags. Believe me, I have a million examples of how I know this, but I won't kill you with them here.
So my next question is:
Am I missing something and just not getting it? I think I may have been a little hasty when discussing this with our AD last week in stating that we have awful coaches who don't put any time or consideration into our school's athletics. I continued by telling him that they are paycheck hounds who have no idea how to approach athletics of any kind and that we'll always have mediocre to bad athletics as long as we have guys like this on staff. I don't want to come off whiny, but I'm sick of busting my pickle to put together a great program for our boys only to have other coaches pee on it with their garbage effort and habits.
What to do?
Opinions?
Tell me I'm wrong.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Mar 8, 2018 8:11:59 GMT -6
It's been my experience that some people don't trust that you have their best interest at heart when training athletes from your sport. From your post, I believe you do & I think your AD needs to see that. However, I know alot of coaches that are against the weight room for their sport. IDK why lol but its true.
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 8, 2018 8:12:36 GMT -6
This has largely been my career. The only time I've approached having my FB kids get what they should was when I became a pr*ck about it. (telling them constantly that they needed to lift regardless of it not happening in their sport of the moment and not really giving a damn about hurting other coaches feelings)Wasn't my preferred way to do things. I always said that I wanted year round programs for 2 reasons. 1. I want my footballers consistantly growing and 2. I want teams to win because it becomes an expectation that teams at our school win. I am at a small school now that is a little closer to all sports strength training properly. I'm back in track again so that all kids not in baseball or tennis will be "encouraged" to do track and they will train properly with me. The biggest problem by far in my previous school was that other coaches did not want ANYTHING anyone else did to take away accolades from them. CONTROL !!!!!!!!!!!! Heaven forbid someone mention that my lifting program might have helped them.
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2018 8:32:30 GMT -6
Coach ViceSad to say but your situation sounds very typical. What to do? Work around the other coaches the best you can. Make sure your AD understands when it comes evaluation time you are not fully able to develop your players because of the obstacles you encounter and it impacts your competitiveness on the field.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Mar 8, 2018 8:40:40 GMT -6
it is awesome that you have the girls sports bought in...we have not had a single girls sport in the weight room as a team or in the off-season this year.
As for your track program, what you have stated is why I became the head track coach. I want athletes to develop into better athletes.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 8:44:49 GMT -6
So here's my issue....stay with me as long as possible. I start structured weight room every year on the first week of December and it runs throughout the school year and summer, as most programs do. I invite ALL (girls and boys) athletic programs to lift with us and offer to tailor their workouts to what ever the coach might want, specifically the in-season teams so that it might take some burden off of the head coach in concerning him/her self with training. I do this for 2 reasons: 1. I think that EVERY kid in our athletics program should be in the weight room and lifting properly with a structured program suited to their needs. 2. I want to take some burden off of our head coaches who are in-season or pre-season, as it's not that hard for me to work with their athletes when I'm off-season. All of that being said, I only have a few programs that take me up on the offer (girls soccer, girls softball, and girls basketball). None of the other sports lift on their own regardless of the time of year. That brings me to the first question: Why the crap wouldn't you want someone to train your athletes with absolutely NO extra effort, responsibility, or time required of you? I'm asking this because many of those in-season kids are MY football players. I want them to train, but their coaches won't let them train in-season (even if it's only twice a week.) ISSUE NUMBER 2. The varsity track coaches (boys and girls.. they co-coach both teams). Don't spend ONE SECOND with their athletes outside of their scheduled season until about 3 weeks before their first meet. At that point they approach the AD and tell him they want the weight room for themselves after school (3:00) until 4:45. Despite the fact that I fill out a yearly calendar and reserve the WR for after school lifting (for all sports) in advance. The AD has caved to this for the past 3 years (including this year) and told us that we're out. Here's my problem... I've been training my athletes (many of which are THEIR athletes) since November and now they want to demand the weight room to themselves 3 weeks before their season? To be clear, they're not doing this because they don't understand or because they're simply unaware...they're D-bags. Believe me, I have a million examples of how I know this, but I won't kill you with them here. So my next question is: Am I missing something and just not getting it? I think I may have been a little hasty when discussing this with our AD last week in stating that we have awful coaches who don't put any time or consideration into our school's athletics. I continued by telling him that they are paycheck hounds who have no idea how to approach athletics of any kind and that we'll always have mediocre to bad athletics as long as we have guys like this on staff. I don't want to come off whiny, but I'm sick of busting my pickle to put together a great program for our boys only to have other coaches pee on it with their garbage effort and habits. What to do? Opinions? Tell me I'm wrong. You are 100% correct. If admin won't back you, nothing you can really do. Try some type of education. I would email articles about programs that all lift year round. About baseball players, bball players, golfers, etc lifting to be better and safer. Who knows, maybe one will change their mind? Then maybe that one has success and someone else changes their mind then. I find it funny that the track guys want to lift three weeks before the season but not at other times. I am a huge believer in the weight room, but that sounds counter productive. I think that is only asking for over-training, injury, and detrimental results. Just funny. I also find it ironic that girls softball, soccer, and basketball take you up on the offer. Sounds like there will be some girls that train year round. Have the girls been having success? That could be a selling point. |
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Post by Coach Vice on Mar 8, 2018 8:52:43 GMT -6
So here's my issue....stay with me as long as possible. I start structured weight room every year on the first week of December and it runs throughout the school year and summer, as most programs do. I invite ALL (girls and boys) athletic programs to lift with us and offer to tailor their workouts to what ever the coach might want, specifically the in-season teams so that it might take some burden off of the head coach in concerning him/her self with training. I do this for 2 reasons: 1. I think that EVERY kid in our athletics program should be in the weight room and lifting properly with a structured program suited to their needs. 2. I want to take some burden off of our head coaches who are in-season or pre-season, as it's not that hard for me to work with their athletes when I'm off-season. All of that being said, I only have a few programs that take me up on the offer (girls soccer, girls softball, and girls basketball). None of the other sports lift on their own regardless of the time of year. That brings me to the first question: Why the crap wouldn't you want someone to train your athletes with absolutely NO extra effort, responsibility, or time required of you? I'm asking this because many of those in-season kids are MY football players. I want them to train, but their coaches won't let them train in-season (even if it's only twice a week.) ISSUE NUMBER 2. The varsity track coaches (boys and girls.. they co-coach both teams). Don't spend ONE SECOND with their athletes outside of their scheduled season until about 3 weeks before their first meet. At that point they approach the AD and tell him they want the weight room for themselves after school (3:00) until 4:45. Despite the fact that I fill out a yearly calendar and reserve the WR for after school lifting (for all sports) in advance. The AD has caved to this for the past 3 years (including this year) and told us that we're out. Here's my problem... I've been training my athletes (many of which are THEIR athletes) since November and now they want to demand the weight room to themselves 3 weeks before their season? To be clear, they're not doing this because they don't understand or because they're simply unaware...they're D-bags. Believe me, I have a million examples of how I know this, but I won't kill you with them here. So my next question is: Am I missing something and just not getting it? I think I may have been a little hasty when discussing this with our AD last week in stating that we have awful coaches who don't put any time or consideration into our school's athletics. I continued by telling him that they are paycheck hounds who have no idea how to approach athletics of any kind and that we'll always have mediocre to bad athletics as long as we have guys like this on staff. I don't want to come off whiny, but I'm sick of busting my pickle to put together a great program for our boys only to have other coaches pee on it with their garbage effort and habits. What to do? Opinions? Tell me I'm wrong. You are 100% correct. If admin won't back you, nothing you can really do. Try some type of education. I would email articles about programs that all lift year round. About baseball players, bball players, golfers, etc lifting to be better and safer. Who knows, maybe one will change their mind? Then maybe that one has success and someone else changes their mind then. I find it funny that the track guys want to lift three weeks before the season but not at other times. I am a huge believer in the weight room, but that sounds counter productive. I think that is only asking for over-training, injury, and detrimental results. Just funny. I also find it ironic that girls softball, soccer, and basketball take you up on the offer. Sounds like there will be some girls that train year round. Have the girls been having success? That could be a selling point. Girls softball in particular has had tremendous success, for a few reasons....1. they train harder and more consistently than any other sport. 2. they all train together on a regular schedule. Girls soccer and basketball is just starting or soon to start, so I don't have any data on them yet. ...and you're right about lifting 3 weeks before the season being counter-productive. I'm about 100% sure the only reason they even do that is just to look busy. It can't be based on anything that has worked in the past. |
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Post by Coach Vice on Mar 8, 2018 8:57:34 GMT -6
It's been my experience that some people don't trust that you have their best interest at heart when training athletes from your sport. From your post, I believe you do & I think your AD needs to see that. However, I know alot of coaches that are against the weight room for their sport. IDK why lol but its true. You're correct...it is true. Our JV basketball coach told his players that they couldn't lift because it would "throw off your shot". True story. In 2018, someone still says that lifting will "throw off your shot" in basketball.......stunning. And as another example of why our coaches are awful: When asked if players can lift in the mornings, the same coach said "You don't need to take up my season lifting. I don't ask players to take shots during your season." My reply, "and that's why your record sucks." |
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Post by realdawg on Mar 8, 2018 9:03:47 GMT -6
About the only way to avoid this nonsense is to offer it as a class during the school day-which we are fortunate enough to have.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 9:33:06 GMT -6
It's been my experience that some people don't trust that you have their best interest at heart when training athletes from your sport. From your post, I believe you do & I think your AD needs to see that. However, I know alot of coaches that are against the weight room for their sport. IDK why lol but its true. You're correct...it is true. Our JV basketball coach told his players that they couldn't lift because it would "throw off your shot". True story. In 2018, someone still says that lifting will "throw off your shot" in basketball.......stunning. And as another example of why our coaches are awful: When asked if players can lift in the mornings, the same coach said "You don't need to take up my season lifting. I don't ask players to take shots during your season." My reply, "and that's why your record sucks." What do these coaches say when presented with fact that NBA and college basketball teams ALL have strength programs? That they lift during the season. That Michael Jordan gives some of the credit of getting over the hump and beating Detroit to weight lifting. The problem is there is a touch of truth to what they are saying. If I have never lifted and do 3 sets of 10 on bench press and burnout, I can't even wash my back much less shoot straight for a couple of days. LOL. If I do all that right before practice and haven't been lifting, I will shoot poorly for a little while. But once they have been lifting for a few weeks, lifting will do nothing but improve their shot. Had a guy score 29 in the state championship basketball game. Won MVP of the tournament. Can shoot the lights out from way deep and is super explosive. Won his weight class in powerlifting literally the very next week. His head coach ENCOURAGES his kids to lift. Bball banquet was this Sunday night. He challenged two freshman to get stronger and work harder in the weight room in front of the whole crowd. But he has only coached in the ACC and SEC for two decades. I can hear the conversation he would have with your basketball coach right now. "You don't want your guys to be stronger? To be faster and jump higher? You are an idiot." |
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Post by groundchuck on Mar 8, 2018 9:38:27 GMT -6
Sounds like you are talking about a school I used to coach at.
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Post by Coach Vice on Mar 8, 2018 10:10:34 GMT -6
About the only way to avoid this nonsense is to offer it as a class during the school day-which we are fortunate enough to have. Part of the problem is that we DO have a weight lifting class, but it's taught by....yep....the track coach. Here's a short side-story on how awful they are.... as I said, they co-coach the boys and girls track teams. They will rotate going to practice. Every day, one of them will go home and the other will stay with both teams. So, they're both getting full paychecks, but only doing half the work. Ultimately, the kids suffer. For the first year I didn't say anything because I didn't want to be THAT guy. After I saw how it was affecting our athletics, I finally called them out. |
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2018 10:14:06 GMT -6
Unfortunately, as an AD, I can tell you that I would probably have to allow the track team access to the weight room during those three weeks before the season. I'd disagree with what they were doing and be encouraging them utilize the weight room year round but our athletic policy grants the coaches full access to all of the facilities during their sports season. And, the track coaches would need that block of time with the number of kids they have out for track. I know it's bullchit but welcome to bureacracy.
I'm the AD and the S&C coach and I ran into this issue with the girls basketball coach this year. I have been opening up the weight room after school since the end of football season (opened it up before school during the season) and have had kids from all sports lifting with me. The girls basketball coach decided that he wanted the girls following his weight training program every Monday and Tuesday during the season (circuit training with calisthenics and jump roping..) and we were evicted for those two days. Last year's girls BB coach had the girls training with me but our new coach doesn't want the girls getting hurt by "lifting heavy weight". I tried to talk to him about it but he wouldn't listen.
So, there isn't much you can really do. And, as an administrator, I can imagine your ADs hands are tied as well. All the track coaches have to say is "Coach Vice can open up the weight room in the morning and there are weight training classes during the day" and any argument he has is invalid. He does need to push for more off-season participation in the weight room though.
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Post by newhope on Mar 8, 2018 11:36:06 GMT -6
So here's my issue....stay with me as long as possible. I start structured weight room every year on the first week of December and it runs throughout the school year and summer, as most programs do. I invite ALL (girls and boys) athletic programs to lift with us and offer to tailor their workouts to what ever the coach might want, specifically the in-season teams so that it might take some burden off of the head coach in concerning him/her self with training. I do this for 2 reasons: 1. I think that EVERY kid in our athletics program should be in the weight room and lifting properly with a structured program suited to their needs. 2. I want to take some burden off of our head coaches who are in-season or pre-season, as it's not that hard for me to work with their athletes when I'm off-season. All of that being said, I only have a few programs that take me up on the offer (girls soccer, girls softball, and girls basketball). None of the other sports lift on their own regardless of the time of year. That brings me to the first question: Why the crap wouldn't you want someone to train your athletes with absolutely NO extra effort, responsibility, or time required of you? I'm asking this because many of those in-season kids are MY football players. I want them to train, but their coaches won't let them train in-season (even if it's only twice a week.) ISSUE NUMBER 2. The varsity track coaches (boys and girls.. they co-coach both teams). Don't spend ONE SECOND with their athletes outside of their scheduled season until about 3 weeks before their first meet. At that point they approach the AD and tell him they want the weight room for themselves after school (3:00) until 4:45. Despite the fact that I fill out a yearly calendar and reserve the WR for after school lifting (for all sports) in advance. The AD has caved to this for the past 3 years (including this year) and told us that we're out. Here's my problem... I've been training my athletes (many of which are THEIR athletes) since November and now they want to demand the weight room to themselves 3 weeks before their season? To be clear, they're not doing this because they don't understand or because they're simply unaware...they're D-bags. Believe me, I have a million examples of how I know this, but I won't kill you with them here. So my next question is: Am I missing something and just not getting it? I think I may have been a little hasty when discussing this with our AD last week in stating that we have awful coaches who don't put any time or consideration into our school's athletics. I continued by telling him that they are paycheck hounds who have no idea how to approach athletics of any kind and that we'll always have mediocre to bad athletics as long as we have guys like this on staff. I don't want to come off whiny, but I'm sick of busting my pickle to put together a great program for our boys only to have other coaches pee on it with their garbage effort and habits. What to do? Opinions? Tell me I'm wrong. You're not wrong. You don't have a weight room or track issue, however, you have an administration issue. Here's what we're doing: Our FB strength coach is the school's strength coach. He's the expert. He's in charge of the weight room. He teaches the weight training classes. We have a calendar. He's in charge of it. Football get first priority. We have the weight room 3 days a week right after school. Other sports practice first, then lift. Football is gone by then. We have a football weight training class for the first time in school history this year. The principal was so impressed by what was happening in there and the level of instruction that next year we will have a football class, a male athlete (non-football) class, a female athlete class, and a general population class. She approaches it the same way any other curriculum in the building is approached. Student needs are going to be met, and met by the most qualified people possible. It's going to be organized and run correctly. We just finished renovating our weight room, which she and the AD paid for. She's all on board and understands how important this is, as does the AD. The new weight room is not only meets football's needs, it is Title IX compliant throughout.  |
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Post by newhope on Mar 8, 2018 11:41:05 GMT -6
Double post
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Post by Defcord on Mar 8, 2018 12:19:52 GMT -6
I always tell the kids there's a reason Division 1 sports (outside of football as well) pay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars for Strength and Conditioning coaches.
I understand kids that don't get the benefits from developing their body because they are young and sometimes the long term benefits to hard work isn't an immediate or prioritized part of their thought process.
But the adult coaches that don't understand the benefits to athletic enhancement and development are disturbing. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but the cat still needs skinned.
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 8, 2018 12:25:26 GMT -6
At my previous school, one of our adament lifters questioned the baseball JV coach about why they didn't lift when most college and pro teams do it. His answer was that it is good when you get to college but not in high school. It was stressful battling that ignorance.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 12:41:52 GMT -6
There is more than one way to skin a cat, but the cat still needs skinned. Love it |
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Post by WingTheT on Mar 8, 2018 12:53:11 GMT -6
Coach Vice,
You're doing a great job and it sucks hearing about your situation. The basketball and "messing up the shot" excuse is one of my biggest pet peeves to hear from players, coaches, parents, etc. You are not in the wrong and I commend you despite not having the support from admin/the AD
I used to be at a school very similar to this. AD didn't want to choose sides even though he knew that the baseball coach was a little nuts and he was acting like your track coaches.
Our HFC and strength coach allowed the players to workout and we had the weight room available to other athletes from other sports because we wanted show the other programs that we cared about our students AND the school's athletic program, not just football's.
The baseball coach basically made out multi-sport athletes to choose and it was very awkward whenever the HFC and HBC (head baseball coach) would be in the same room or around each other. HFC wound up leaving and winning state the following year and I'm pretty sure the baseball coach left too due to the baseball team starting to crumble.
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Post by tabs52 on Mar 8, 2018 12:58:12 GMT -6
So here's my issue....stay with me as long as possible. I start structured weight room every year on the first week of December and it runs throughout the school year and summer, as most programs do. I invite ALL (girls and boys) athletic programs to lift with us and offer to tailor their workouts to what ever the coach might want, specifically the in-season teams so that it might take some burden off of the head coach in concerning him/her self with training. I do this for 2 reasons: 1. I think that EVERY kid in our athletics program should be in the weight room and lifting properly with a structured program suited to their needs. 2. I want to take some burden off of our head coaches who are in-season or pre-season, as it's not that hard for me to work with their athletes when I'm off-season. All of that being said, I only have a few programs that take me up on the offer (girls soccer, girls softball, and girls basketball). None of the other sports lift on their own regardless of the time of year. That brings me to the first question: Why the crap wouldn't you want someone to train your athletes with absolutely NO extra effort, responsibility, or time required of you? I'm asking this because many of those in-season kids are MY football players. I want them to train, but their coaches won't let them train in-season (even if it's only twice a week.) ISSUE NUMBER 2. The varsity track coaches (boys and girls.. they co-coach both teams). Don't spend ONE SECOND with their athletes outside of their scheduled season until about 3 weeks before their first meet. At that point they approach the AD and tell him they want the weight room for themselves after school (3:00) until 4:45. Despite the fact that I fill out a yearly calendar and reserve the WR for after school lifting (for all sports) in advance. The AD has caved to this for the past 3 years (including this year) and told us that we're out. Here's my problem... I've been training my athletes (many of which are THEIR athletes) since November and now they want to demand the weight room to themselves 3 weeks before their season? To be clear, they're not doing this because they don't understand or because they're simply unaware...they're D-bags. Believe me, I have a million examples of how I know this, but I won't kill you with them here. So my next question is: Am I missing something and just not getting it? I think I may have been a little hasty when discussing this with our AD last week in stating that we have awful coaches who don't put any time or consideration into our school's athletics. I continued by telling him that they are paycheck hounds who have no idea how to approach athletics of any kind and that we'll always have mediocre to bad athletics as long as we have guys like this on staff. I don't want to come off whiny, but I'm sick of busting my pickle to put together a great program for our boys only to have other coaches pee on it with their garbage effort and habits. What to do? Opinions? Tell me I'm wrong. Not wrong at all, I totally agree with your points. Just a couple of things 1. Track is in season 2. That is the only thing I guess |
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Post by silkyice on Mar 8, 2018 12:59:18 GMT -6
AD didn't want to choose sides. The baseball coach basically made out multi-sport athletes to choose This is a hill worth dying on if an AD. |
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2018 13:00:06 GMT -6
I always tell the kids there's a reason Division 1 sports (outside of football as well) pay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars for Strength and Conditioning coaches. I understand kids that don't get the benefits from developing their body because they are young and sometimes the long term benefits to hard work isn't an immediate or prioritized part of their thought process. But the adult coaches that don't understand the benefits to athletic enhancement and development are disturbing. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but the cat still needs skinned. I fought this battle with many coaches over my career and I finally just gave up because I have found that people that are adamant about avoiding the weight room cannot be reasoned with. One hour of research on their part would show examples of all of the benefits of weight training for high school athletes and I won't bother trying to educate them if they won't do it themselves. One of my closest friends has been coaching basketball for over twenty years now, he's a bright, educated guy but he refuses to let the kids weight train during the season. I had one talk with him about it, heard all of the usual bullchit ("They'll get hurt", "They'll get too bulky", "They need endurance, not strength..") and I quit. |
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Post by Coach Vice on Mar 8, 2018 13:17:59 GMT -6
Unfortunately, as an AD, I can tell you that I would probably have to allow the track team access to the weight room during those three weeks before the season. I'd disagree with what they were doing and be encouraging them utilize the weight room year round but our athletic policy grants the coaches full access to all of the facilities during their sports season. And, the track coaches would need that block of time with the number of kids they have out for track. I know it's bullchit but welcome to bureacracy. I'm the AD and the S&C coach and I ran into this issue with the girls basketball coach this year. I have been opening up the weight room after school since the end of football season (opened it up before school during the season) and have had kids from all sports lifting with me. The girls basketball coach decided that he wanted the girls following his weight training program every Monday and Tuesday during the season (circuit training with calisthenics and jump roping..) and we were evicted for those two days. Last year's girls BB coach had the girls training with me but our new coach doesn't want the girls getting hurt by "lifting heavy weight". I tried to talk to him about it but he wouldn't listen. So, there isn't much you can really do. And, as an administrator, I can imagine your ADs hands are tied as well. All the track coaches have to say is "Coach Vice can open up the weight room in the morning and there are weight training classes during the day" and any argument he has is invalid. He does need to push for more off-season participation in the weight room though. I think you're just about spot-on..... I have a follow up, though. As an AD, what would you do with coaches who under-achieve? I'm talking about the coach who does bare minimum (and sometimes less) over a period of time. We recently had an AD change and I've told both that we need to start scrutinizing effort and commitment among our coaches. Unfortunately, no one is listening. I've tried collaborating with them, I've tried offering assistance, and I've tried tolerating, but it's gone nowhere. In fact...last year, not only did they tell the AD that they wanted the weight room, but they requested the sports room, both gyms, and they even told the AD that they needed all the halls. Basically, it was an attempt to keep us from doing anything in the building after school. I hung around after school and after a few days noted they were only using a small portion of what they were reserving. I told our AD and the track coach's response was "you can have your guys stay after and if we're not using it, you can use it." I don't work that way. |
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Post by Defcord on Mar 8, 2018 13:18:26 GMT -6
I always tell the kids there's a reason Division 1 sports (outside of football as well) pay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars for Strength and Conditioning coaches. I understand kids that don't get the benefits from developing their body because they are young and sometimes the long term benefits to hard work isn't an immediate or prioritized part of their thought process. But the adult coaches that don't understand the benefits to athletic enhancement and development are disturbing. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but the cat still needs skinned. I fought this battle with many coaches over my career and I finally just gave up because I have found that people that are adamant about avoiding the weight room cannot be reasoned with. One hour of research on their part would show examples of all of the benefits of weight training for high school athletes and I won't bother trying to educate them if they won't do it themselves. One of my closest friends has been coaching basketball for over twenty years now, he's a bright, educated guy but he refuses to let the kids weight train during the season. I had one talk with him about it, heard all of the usual bullchit ("They'll get hurt", "They'll get too bulky", "They need endurance, not strength..") and I quit. It's a tough battle for sure. I don't have to fight it too hard because I am not a head coach. When a kid brings the issue up with me, I direct them to some videos or articles that highlight the importance of training and tell them they should look into it and do what they think is best for them to achieve their goals. I don't want to be the guy that tells them something other than what their HC is asking of them but I also feel like kids should at least be presented with the right information. I do agree 100% that this is a battle with some coaches that it's just not worth fighting. |
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Post by Coach Vice on Mar 8, 2018 13:26:23 GMT -6
.....I feel like I need to clarify one thing, too. I told our AD that I don't want the Track team to NOT be in the weight room after school. Actually, I'd prefer if they were in there, but I'd like them to be in there all year...along with all our other athletes. I'm simply saying, I want ALL of our kids to be in there...every day. It just seems wrong to me that we'd ever have to tell a kid that there's a time when the WR is unavailable. With 4-5 coaches and the facilities we have (sports room, weight room, and two gymnasiums) we could easily work out 100-150 kids on a circuit among the sites, if we were coordinated. Which I've offered to create, but was declined.
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 8, 2018 14:38:40 GMT -6
Coach Vice-you just can't argue logic with illogical people. Alot like our political scene. No matter what proof you bring, they will come up with another stupid answer. That's why I had to become a pr*ck to get stuff done. Luckily we won enough to validate it to some people.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2018 14:45:51 GMT -6
Unfortunately, as an AD, I can tell you that I would probably have to allow the track team access to the weight room during those three weeks before the season. I'd disagree with what they were doing and be encouraging them utilize the weight room year round but our athletic policy grants the coaches full access to all of the facilities during their sports season. And, the track coaches would need that block of time with the number of kids they have out for track. I know it's bullchit but welcome to bureacracy. I'm the AD and the S&C coach and I ran into this issue with the girls basketball coach this year. I have been opening up the weight room after school since the end of football season (opened it up before school during the season) and have had kids from all sports lifting with me. The girls basketball coach decided that he wanted the girls following his weight training program every Monday and Tuesday during the season (circuit training with calisthenics and jump roping..) and we were evicted for those two days. Last year's girls BB coach had the girls training with me but our new coach doesn't want the girls getting hurt by "lifting heavy weight". I tried to talk to him about it but he wouldn't listen. So, there isn't much you can really do. And, as an administrator, I can imagine your ADs hands are tied as well. All the track coaches have to say is "Coach Vice can open up the weight room in the morning and there are weight training classes during the day" and any argument he has is invalid. He does need to push for more off-season participation in the weight room though. I think you're just about spot-on..... I have a follow up, though. As an AD, what would you do with coaches who under-achieve? I'm talking about the coach who does bare minimum (and sometimes less) over a period of time. We recently had an AD change and I've told both that we need to start scrutinizing effort and commitment among our coaches. Unfortunately, no one is listening. I've tried collaborating with them, I've tried offering assistance, and I've tried tolerating, but it's gone nowhere. In fact...last year, not only did they tell the AD that they wanted the weight room, but they requested the sports room, both gyms, and they even told the AD that they needed all the halls. Basically, it was an attempt to keep us from doing anything in the building after school. I hung around after school and after a few days noted they were only using a small portion of what they were reserving. I told our AD and the track coach's response was "you can have your guys stay after and if we're not using it, you can use it." I don't work that way. Honestly, being an AD comes with nepotism and politics. My recommendation holds little weight when it comes to hiring/firing of coaches as I report my recommendation to the administration, we talk about it and then they make their recommendation to the school board. Some administrators go with my recommendation, some don't. But, the school board can still vote against the administration's recommendation, which happens. I desperately wanted to can a volleyball coach one year as she was not only inept, she was unprofessional and many of her actions were liability issues. Our girls hadn't won a game in two years, they were embarrassing to watch and she I told her I wasn't recommending her for rehire, explained everything that had happened with her and he agreed with me. He recommended that she not be rehired but she was a former "sports star" of the school, popular in the community and the board voted against the recommendations, 5-0. But, I do a few things to keep our coaches on their toes. I ask that all of the coaches send me a schedule of off-season activities that they plan on implementing and a schedule for said events that they can provide the kids and parents with. This is documented on their evaluations. Their evaluations are almost painfully detailed and specific to the sport they're coaching. I just had our boys basketball coach in my room this morning for an evaluation and he got dinged on the "Fundamentals" section because the boys didn't follow their shots in and couldn't rebound for chit. He also got nailed on the "Knowledge Of The Game" portion as he went through a dozen different offenses and eight different presses by the end of the season. I'm going to recommend him for rehire as he's good with the kids, puts in the work in the off-season and is professional; he just needs to to stop being an Xs and Os guy. |
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Post by Defcord on Mar 8, 2018 15:10:16 GMT -6
As an AD can you ask coaches to justify their offseason and in season plans by showing scienctific or at least anecdotal studies. For two reasons first safety purposes and putting athletes in the best position to stay injury free. Second to stay up to date with best practices.
If coaches want money for equipment and camps and clinics for those same purposes I would think it fair to show some evidence based justification for implantation of an athletic enhancement plan.
I have no clue if this is ok just thinking out loud.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2018 15:38:06 GMT -6
As an AD can you ask coaches to justify their offseason and in season plans by showing scienctific or at least anecdotal studies. For two reasons first safety purposes and putting athletes in the best position to stay injury free. Second to stay up to date with best practices. If coaches want money for equipment and camps and clinics for those same purposes I would think it fair to show some evidence based justification for implantation of an athletic enhancement plan. I have no clue if this is ok just thinking out loud. Yes, we have that ability to ask for specifics behind their off-season programs but it's just not a hill worth dying on. You'll get a lot of "bro science" and things just turns into an argument. And, you'll run into coaches like my friend who has had a long, successful basketball career but doesn't have his players lift at all. So, it becomes hard to justify. Honestly, most AD jobs involve a ton of bureaucracy. |
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Post by Defcord on Mar 8, 2018 16:09:04 GMT -6
As an AD can you ask coaches to justify their offseason and in season plans by showing scienctific or at least anecdotal studies. For two reasons first safety purposes and putting athletes in the best position to stay injury free. Second to stay up to date with best practices. If coaches want money for equipment and camps and clinics for those same purposes I would think it fair to show some evidence based justification for implantation of an athletic enhancement plan. I have no clue if this is ok just thinking out loud. Yes, we have that ability to ask for specifics behind their off-season programs but it's just not a hill worth dying on. You'll get a lot of "bro science" and things just turns into an argument. And, you'll run into coaches like my friend who has had a long, successful basketball career but doesn't have his players lift at all. So, it becomes hard to justify. Honestly, most AD jobs involve a ton of bureaucracy. That makes sense. As has been said in the thread no reason to use logic with the illogical. Seems like being an AD is like the step parents of administration. |
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