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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 9:36:51 GMT -6
I dont know much, but I believe in what has helped me be successful. I wrote some down. I would like to see what you guys think.
1. “Lead, Follow, or get the Hell out of the Way. “ Be an innovator, push your position group, push the coordinator OR Follow the lead of the coordinator. If you are not one of these then what are you? A problem.
2. Keep disagreements and arguments away from the players as much as possible
3. Watch Practice film as a staff immediately after practice. Why do we film practice if it’s not reviewed? How can we have a good tempo at practice if you are constantly correcting on the field?
4. Understand the hierarchy and act accordingly. I love to talk football and new ideas. As a tempo team it is important that I have the game plan organized a certain way in my mind. We all must have tough skin when ideas get shut down.
5. Develop a relationship with your players so you can coach them how you want. I am a firm believer that they will do the impossible for you if they:
a. Respect You
OR
b. Fear you
6. We work too hard for too little money to be upset. Do not take {censored} from a player. Work out disagreements with coaches.
7. Take our own ego out of this. I am willing to adapt for the team. We must hold each other accountable to this principal
8. Don’t fall in love with you players or yourself. Be a self-critic. There is nothing worse than a good person who does everything right but is not performing. Find other ways to get him involved and rewarded for hard work.
9. The average Florida HS State Champion has 6 Division 1 Seniors on their team. Do we? If not what advantage will we create? Is it though Scheme? Preparation? Toughness? Strength?
10. Take care of the people who are involved in the program. Players, Coaches, Administrators, Janitors, Managers, Booster Club. Make this a memorable experience.
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Post by fantom on Feb 15, 2018 9:47:47 GMT -6
I don't know that they need to fear you.
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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 9:54:37 GMT -6
I don't know that they need to fear you. That should read OR. Respect OR Fear. You can get it done either way to me. |
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Post by chi5hi on Feb 15, 2018 10:00:29 GMT -6
I've always tried to follow the first page of the Boy Scout manual:
Loyal
Faithful
Friendly
Thrifty
Trustworthy
Honest
Reverent
Brave
True
Physically Fit
Mentally Awake
Morally Straight.
That works for me. Lead by example
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Post by fantom on Feb 15, 2018 10:01:47 GMT -6
I don't know that they need to fear you. That should read OR. Respect OR Fear. You can get it done either way to me. Can't agree. If they only fear you but don't respect you you're not going to get very far. |
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Post by realdawg on Feb 15, 2018 10:07:37 GMT -6
I agree with fantom. I don’t think fear is the right word. If they respect you they don’t need to fear you and they will follow your demands Bc they know their is a line you will not let them cross. I think if they fear you they won’t play. And maybe the OP doesn’t mean fear in the traditional sense. Maybe he means more along the lines of knows that their are consequences for unacceptable behavior. Idk.
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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 10:07:54 GMT -6
That should read OR. Respect OR Fear. You can get it done either way to me. Can't agree. If they only fear you but don't respect you you're not going to get very far. I try and do everything I can to earn their respect. I agree that it works better. Have you never had a player that it just didnt work with? I will give you a possible example. A player with problems. Doesnt do enough to get kicked off the team, is not out right disrespectful, doesnt talk back. He just doesnt like you, doesnt respect you period. How do you handle that player? Does Up Downs not count as fear? Have you never used Up Downs? I dont mean physically fear you, maybe fear the consequences of not doing what they are supposed to. This is why I posted this. Great input. Really made me think about that. |
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Post by seabass on Feb 15, 2018 11:08:58 GMT -6
I like your list! There is some really good stuff to live by on that list.
My only exception is the "fear" thing...if you mean it in the way it sounds.
Fear and respect are not the same thing and too often mentioned in the same sentences. I 100% agree that people will go to great lengths for a person they respect....they will only go so far out of fear....even when the ultimate fear (death) is the potential consequence.
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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 11:35:34 GMT -6
I like your list! There is some really good stuff to live by on that list. My only exception is the "fear" thing...if you mean it in the way it sounds. Fear and respect are not the same thing and too often mentioned in the same sentences. I 100% agree that people will go to great lengths for a person they respect....they will only go so far out of fear....even when the ultimate fear (death) is the potential consequence. Can you edit a post? I meant respect OR fear. And fear in the context of, if you dont do it like I said there will be consequnces. Like Up downs or being pulled off the field. Not fear as in I am going to beat your ass. This brings up a really good talking point. How do you get a player to do what he is supposed to if he doesnt respect you? And we all have had that at least once at some point. |
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mdftfo
Freshmen Member
Posts: 39
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Post by mdftfo on Feb 15, 2018 11:43:47 GMT -6
I like your list! There is some really good stuff to live by on that list. My only exception is the "fear" thing...if you mean it in the way it sounds. Fear and respect are not the same thing and too often mentioned in the same sentences. I 100% agree that people will go to great lengths for a person they respect....they will only go so far out of fear....even when the ultimate fear (death) is the potential consequence. Can you edit a post? I meant respect OR fear. And fear in the context of, if you dont do it like I said there will be consequnces. Like Up downs or being pulled off the field. Not fear as in I am going to beat your ass. This brings up a really good talking point. How do you get a player to do what he is supposed to if he doesnt respect you? And we all have had that at least once at some point. If he listens to you when you make him do up downs or tell him to get off the field, isn't that a form of respect in its own? |
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Post by seabass on Feb 15, 2018 12:10:41 GMT -6
I believe you can edit a post but I don't know how.
I get what you are saying...respect OR fear...still don't believe in fear as the best motivator...JMO
As to how to get a player to do what he's supposed to do when he doesn't respect you....I don't know that I would spend time trying to figure that out. I would spend my time figuring out how to earn the respect of that kid.
Often times we don't respect those we don't trust. We rarely trust a person who doesn't have our best interest in mind. Most of us have our player's best interest in mind...but there have to be a few who aren't sure about that.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2018 12:11:05 GMT -6
I agree with Gators41 that fear can be used as motivation. It's not a technique that I use or promote, but there are many coaches who have used fear to motivate players and those players played harder (probably not happier or to a maximum level) because of it.
Whether it's the fear of being yelled at or singled out, or fear of running more or fear of being taking off of a unit, fear does motivate.
Does fear motivate as well as respect? I don't think so. Have I seen kids work harder because they feared a coach? Yes.
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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 12:15:17 GMT -6
I believe you can edit a post but I don't know how. I get what you are saying...respect OR fear...still don't believe in fear as the best motivator...JMO As to how to get a player to do what he's supposed to do when he doesn't respect you....I don't know that I would spend time trying to figure that out. I would spend my time figuring out how to earn the respect of that kid. Often times we don't respect those we don't trust. We rarely trust a person who doesn't have our best interest in mind. Most of us have our player's best interest in mind...but there have to be a few who aren't sure about that. Seabass- I 100% agree with you. You are 100% correct However I have been around certain kids that just were not going to respect me. And unfortunately they were really good players. It hasnt happened much. I tried everything. Literally EV-ER-RE-Thing. Over the course of years. I wasnt the HC. I was told to put up with said player. Ordered to. What do you do then? You use consequences. OK buddy, you dont want to do it my way. Thats fine. We are going to stay after practice today and catch "Fade" Routes. We are going to work on fumble recoveries today. Also- If you dont think Nick Saban is Feared you are wrong. Is he also respected, damn right. |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 15, 2018 12:32:41 GMT -6
A kid won't be playing for us long if it takes "fear" to motivate them. We coach the hell out of our kids, treat them respect and handle discipline fairly and consistently. A kid needs to go away if he still can't be coached when we take this approach.
We don't use physical conditioning (i.e. instilling "fear") as a punishment for much anymore. We'll just take away playing time as a) it's a better motivator and b) it's a logical motivator (you don't come to practice, you don't play).
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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 12:45:00 GMT -6
A kid won't be playing for us long if it takes "fear" to motivate them. We coach the hell out of our kids, treat them respect and handle discipline fairly and consistently. A kid needs to go away if he still can't be coached when we take this approach. We don't use physical conditioning (i.e. instilling "fear") as a punishment for much anymore. We'll just take away playing time as a) it's a better motivator and b) it's a logical motivator (you don't come to practice, you don't play). All that stuff on the list and yall find one word you dont like. HAha. I am just kidding. I like the feedback. Yall must be much much better coaches than me. You have never had a kid not like you. All your players respect you like a mix of grandpa, santa and Ronald Reagan. So none of you have ever Run a kid for being late, or Up Downed a unit for not performing well during practice. These are all fear tactics. If they respected you all the time you wouldnt have to do that. No one has to up down you to get you up on Christmas Morning!! HAHA, being funny but some truth. |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 15, 2018 13:00:29 GMT -6
A kid won't be playing for us long if it takes "fear" to motivate them. We coach the hell out of our kids, treat them respect and handle discipline fairly and consistently. A kid needs to go away if he still can't be coached when we take this approach. We don't use physical conditioning (i.e. instilling "fear") as a punishment for much anymore. We'll just take away playing time as a) it's a better motivator and b) it's a logical motivator (you don't come to practice, you don't play). All that stuff on the list and yall find one word you dont like. HAha. I am just kidding. I like the feedback. Yall must be much much better coaches than me. You have never had a kid not like you. All your players respect you like a mix of grandpa, santa and Ronald Reagan. So none of you have ever Run a kid for being late, or Up Downed a unit for not performing well during practice. These are all fear tactics. If they respected you all the time you wouldnt have to do that. No one has to up down you to get you up on Christmas Morning!! HAHA, being funny but some truth. Oh... I have had plenty of kids that didn't like me. But, most of them still respected me, the staff and the program overall. Those that didn't we're either asked to leave the program or quit. The culture of the team goes a long way in this aspect. 90% of the kids see the staff coaching their a--es off, treating the kids well, and acting professionally and they have no qualms telling the other 10% to fall in line or get out. We used to run kids as punishment but I, personally, don't like the message that it sends. It sends a bad precedent when we run the hell out of a kid who is a discipline issue but still play them. The rest of the team is working hard, not being a PITA but they miss out on playing time because we've run a cancerous kid instead of benching him. Benching them sends a better message. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2018 13:03:24 GMT -6
A kid won't be playing for us long if it takes "fear" to motivate them. We coach the hell out of our kids, treat them respect and handle discipline fairly and consistently. A kid needs to go away if he still can't be coached when we take this approach. We don't use physical conditioning (i.e. instilling "fear") as a punishment for much anymore. We'll just take away playing time as a) it's a better motivator and b) it's a logical motivator (you don't come to practice, you don't play). Just because you do all of those things doesn't mean the kid will respect you. Respect is something that you don't get to decide if you get it back. You could have a kid that shows up and works hard for you everyday and yessirs you with the biggest smile you ever seen simply because he fears acting in any other way will take away his playing time in a game that he loves. Being respectful is not giving respect. That same kid that acted respectful to you could hate you enough to kick your dog if he had the chance. And it might be for something as stupid as your hair cut. For a kid that loves football the fear of losing playing time is a real fear and a real motivator. Usually when you are respectful to kids they return that respect to you, but it's simply not guaranteed. High school boys are immature, irrational and emotional so respect is a concept that some just aren't ready for. My son is a good example of the fear of playing time being a real fear. My son and I can have elaborate conversations about respect and I truly think they will benefit him a ton in the long run, but when he's being a real turd I tell him I will take his electronics away. As soon as I do he's an angel. |
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Post by gators41 on Feb 15, 2018 13:29:41 GMT -6
All that stuff on the list and yall find one word you dont like. HAha. I am just kidding. I like the feedback. Yall must be much much better coaches than me. You have never had a kid not like you. All your players respect you like a mix of grandpa, santa and Ronald Reagan. So none of you have ever Run a kid for being late, or Up Downed a unit for not performing well during practice. These are all fear tactics. If they respected you all the time you wouldnt have to do that. No one has to up down you to get you up on Christmas Morning!! HAHA, being funny but some truth. Oh... I have had plenty of kids that didn't like me. But, most of them still respected me, the staff and the program overall. Those that didn't we're either asked to leave the program or quit. The culture of the team goes a long way in this aspect. 90% of the kids see the staff coaching their a--es off, treating the kids well, and acting professionally and they have no qualms telling the other 10% to fall in line or get out. We used to run kids as punishment but I, personally, don't like the message that it sends. It sends a bad precedent when we run the hell out of a kid who is a discipline issue but still play them. The rest of the team is working hard, not being a PITA but they miss out on playing time because we've run a cancerous kid instead of benching him. Benching them sends a better message. Being really picky here, but wouldnt that technically be the fear of not playing. So you are still using a fear tactic, albeit a better one, to get what you want. I am working really hard here to be right... |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 15, 2018 13:36:58 GMT -6
Oh... I have had plenty of kids that didn't like me. But, most of them still respected me, the staff and the program overall. Those that didn't we're either asked to leave the program or quit. The culture of the team goes a long way in this aspect. 90% of the kids see the staff coaching their a--es off, treating the kids well, and acting professionally and they have no qualms telling the other 10% to fall in line or get out. We used to run kids as punishment but I, personally, don't like the message that it sends. It sends a bad precedent when we run the hell out of a kid who is a discipline issue but still play them. The rest of the team is working hard, not being a PITA but they miss out on playing time because we've run a cancerous kid instead of benching him. Benching them sends a better message. Being really picky here, but wouldnt that technically be the fear of not playing. So you are still using a fear tactic, albeit a better one, to get what you want. I am working really hard here to be right... Nope. They didn't earn the playing time so they don't get it. |
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Post by bruinfb on Feb 15, 2018 13:52:15 GMT -6
When a kid's alarm clock goes off, does he get out of bed to get to an early morning football activity on time because he respects the coach? Or does he get up and get there on time because he fears the consequence he will incur if he is late?
I do believe fear of negative consequences is a legitimate motivating factor.
I also think most players will respect a coach that has fair and firm policies in which consequences are consistent. So the player fears the consequences and respects the coach. It is possible to have both.
I am interpreting the OP's point to mean that good coaches have got to get many players to do things that they may not want to do (at that precise moment) through some means of motivation. Whether that motivation is because the kid loves playing for the coach or because the kid fears negative consequences (loss of play-time, extra running, removal from team etc.) there has got to be some motivating factor. We all wish our kids were intrinsically motivated to do things how we want all the time, but that isn't always the case.
Now does fearing consequences mean that the player "Fears" the coach? I do not think so, but there is some level of fear to many motivational techniques.
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Post by coachfitz on Feb 15, 2018 14:11:46 GMT -6
I think the only place for "fear" is when you're able to foster a mindset in the program where each wave of kids is "afraid" of not living up to a high standard set by their teammates past and present.
A kid should never be afraid of a coach. He should be afraid of how his teammates will view him if he cant meet expectations.
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Post by gators41 on Feb 19, 2018 8:15:04 GMT -6
Being really picky here, but wouldnt that technically be the fear of not playing. So you are still using a fear tactic, albeit a better one, to get what you want. I am working really hard here to be right... Nope. They didn't earn the playing time so they don't get it. I disagree. If they respected you in the first place they would have made proper arrangements to miss practice, or would not have missed. You are using the fear of playing time to motivate them. |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 19, 2018 9:00:07 GMT -6
Nope. They didn't earn the playing time so they don't get it. I disagree. If they respected you in the first place they would have made proper arrangements to miss practice, or would not have missed. You are using the fear of playing time to motivate them. You're right, they don't respect us or the program. So, we're going to play the kids that do. I'm done splitting hairs on this thread. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 9:55:35 GMT -6
If the kids leave your program fearing you, you are wrong. Instilling fear has to be done with love and your kids have to know and learn that what you are about is in their best interest. Fear should turn into respect.
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Post by gators41 on Feb 19, 2018 10:07:30 GMT -6
I disagree. If they respected you in the first place they would have made proper arrangements to miss practice, or would not have missed. You are using the fear of playing time to motivate them. You're right, they don't respect us or the program. So, we're going to play the kids that do. I'm done splitting hairs on this thread. Yea it needs to stop. At what point do you dismiss a kid from the team instead of putting up with continual problems? |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Feb 19, 2018 10:28:33 GMT -6
Issue with fear is they usually only fear the HC so the AC's are left with disgruntled kids at their position group
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Post by coachcb on Feb 19, 2018 11:02:16 GMT -6
You're right, they don't respect us or the program. So, we're going to play the kids that do. I'm done splitting hairs on this thread. Yea it needs to stop. At what point do you dismiss a kid from the team instead of putting up with continual problems? They get three shots: First unexcused absense: benched for a half. Second unexcused absence: benched for a game. Third unexcused absence: don't come back. During practice, it's the same deal and we tell the kids that if they're going to act like spectators, we will treat them like one. First behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: warning Second behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: sit out of the drill and benched for a quarter. Third behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: sit out of practice/benched for a half. Fourth behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness sit out of practice/benched for a game. Fifth behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: removed from practice and don't come back. Generally speaking, we'll have a one or two kids every year that will hit three-four strikes in an early, single practice, are told they're benched and they just quit. There's always a chit-storm with their parents but we stick to our guns with with it. It's the whole philosophical basis for our program; those that put in the time, are coachable, and work hard will play. |
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Post by gators41 on Feb 19, 2018 11:29:44 GMT -6
Yea it needs to stop. At what point do you dismiss a kid from the team instead of putting up with continual problems? They get three shots: First unexcused absense: benched for a half. Second unexcused absence: benched for a game. Third unexcused absence: don't come back. During practice, it's the same deal and we tell the kids that if they're going to act like spectators, we will treat them like one. First behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: warning Second behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: sit out of the drill and benched for a quarter. Third behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: sit out of practice/benched for a half. Fourth behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness sit out of practice/benched for a game. Fifth behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: removed from practice and don't come back. Generally speaking, we'll have a one or two kids every year that will hit three-four strikes in an early, single practice, are told they're benched and they just quit. There's always a chit-storm with their parents but we stick to our guns with with it. It's the whole philosophical basis for our program; those that put in the time, are coachable, and work hard will play. I like how specific and measurable this is. Do you coach in a big program? What type of absences are excused? What if they dont get an absence excused before hand but it turns out to be a good reason? |
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Post by gators41 on Feb 19, 2018 11:30:12 GMT -6
Issue with fear is they usually only fear the HC so the AC's are left with disgruntled kids at their position group Great Point. Very true. |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 19, 2018 11:59:14 GMT -6
They get three shots: First unexcused absense: benched for a half. Second unexcused absence: benched for a game. Third unexcused absence: don't come back. During practice, it's the same deal and we tell the kids that if they're going to act like spectators, we will treat them like one. First behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: warning Second behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: sit out of the drill and benched for a quarter. Third behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: sit out of practice/benched for a half. Fourth behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness sit out of practice/benched for a game. Fifth behavioral problem/incidence of laziness/tardiness: removed from practice and don't come back. Generally speaking, we'll have a one or two kids every year that will hit three-four strikes in an early, single practice, are told they're benched and they just quit. There's always a chit-storm with their parents but we stick to our guns with with it. It's the whole philosophical basis for our program; those that put in the time, are coachable, and work hard will play. I like how specific and measurable this is. Do you coach in a big program? What type of absences are excused? What if they dont get an absence excused before hand but it turns out to be a good reason? We have around 50 kids, 9-12. We have the "coaches' discretion clause" written into our policy for all absenteeism and disciplinary issues. Automatic excused absences include a doctor's note, a death in the family, various emergencies, etc..etc.. We will work with parents and kids on things but we do put our foot down hard on certain things. For example, we had a ton of kids that went to school with a nasty head cold but wanted to skip practice. I told them they had one of two choices; show up to practice and watch or go to the doctor and get a note. I tell them that if they're well enough to be in school, then they're well enough to watch practice. But, they also have to understand that there's a good chance they will lose their starting spot and playing time if they decide to sit on the bench all week while everyone else practices. I make it real simple for them; "too sick to practice=too sick to play." Disciplinary issues can be more difficult to address as those become very subjective. Straight defiance/lack of coachability is pretty self-explanatory and can be handled during drills. We will make a kid run through the same drill repeatedly until they DO IT RIGHT. They learn that we will either get them to show that they can execute the skill or they'll sit down. One or two kids will have tantrums when we make them do five reps on a tackling drill, pout and they'll just sit. They don't stick with us very long. The rest will do it correctly the second time around because they know we'll push them until they get they either get the job done or they're gone. We also have a deal with the kids; if they bust a-- and condition themselves through drills, then we don't have to worry about condo AFTER practice. Our ACs keep track of who has been continually dragging through drills and those kids get to make it up after practice with MORE position specific drills. Last year, I had four WRs that decided to give minimal effort all day (not enough to warrant benching) so they were with me after practice for twenty minutes, running routes on air and doing blocking drills. The drills would have lasted ten minutes but I kept working them until I saw them doing it correctly and with effort. One kid tossed his helmet and walked off of the field so I benched him. So, do things the right way, the first time and we won't have issues. Do them the wrong way and you'll be getting hammered with reps until it's done correctly. This could be viewed as managing using "fear" but the overall message to the kids is clear; get better or go away. Again, we run into issues with this during the first week or two of practice but the kids figure it all out in a hurry. We continually talk about "respecting the process" and "embracing the grind" and just the importance of getting better at practice. Our policies help to enforce those philosophies. |
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