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Post by mariner42 on Jan 31, 2018 16:59:33 GMT -6
How many of you guys are involved with PBIS? I’m part of our schools implementation team and I’m constantly thinking back to how this also applies to coaching.
For those who are new to it or unaware, the basic gist is trying to create a system to positively (and socially) reward students for the kinds of behaviors we want. It’s the new hotness of culture building but for your school.
It’s really got my wheels turning for how I could approach building a programs culture in positive way, curious if anyone else has gone through this process and made the same connections.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Jan 31, 2018 17:22:09 GMT -6
I think it works great for coaching.
MHO of it as a classroom tool is that it's an excuse for admin to avoid having to deal with discipline. But that's another topic...
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 31, 2018 17:35:46 GMT -6
It will motivate those who are already motivated from within. Those who aren't will be momentarily motivated, but ultimately they'll stop paying attention to it.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 31, 2018 17:42:22 GMT -6
Isn’t playing time the ultimate PBIS in football? We do it at my schools (elementary). Have to hand out little pieces of paper to kids when we see them following expectations, can’t have rules or directions for kids now but expectations, and they collect them as a class. When they hit so many they get a reward for the whole class, even the a$$holes. So basically you can be a dick all you want and still get the reward with the class. And those kids have figured that out. But administration doesn’t like that when you point it out... Sure that’s not what you’re looking for but it drives me nuts at school. Sorry.
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Post by utchuckd on Jan 31, 2018 17:50:36 GMT -6
Is this like when Dumbledore gives extra points to the kids he likes so Gryffindor wins the House Cup?
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Post by coachklee on Jan 31, 2018 18:00:59 GMT -6
I find reasons to give cold Gatorades to guys at the end of practices...especially scout team guys.
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PBIS
Jan 31, 2018 18:43:58 GMT -6
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Post by CS on Jan 31, 2018 18:43:58 GMT -6
How many of you guys are involved with PBIS? I’m part of our schools implementation team and I’m constantly thinking back to how this also applies to coaching. For those who are new to it or unaware, the basic gist is trying to create a system to positively (and socially) reward students for the kinds of behaviors we want. It’s the new hotness of culture building but for your school. It’s really got my wheels turning for how I could approach building a programs culture in positive way, curious if anyone else has gone through this process and made the same connections. We did this at a school I was at several years ago. It was implemented by a Teach for America guy and It ended up getting scrapped because no Teacher’s ever gave “merits” to the good kids. The teachers didn’t notice them doing those things because they already did and the goobers were getting all the awards. You could say that is a good thing but it kind of spits in the face of the kids who always do good things when it doesn’t get noticed
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PBIS
Jan 31, 2018 19:25:27 GMT -6
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Post by jg08mhs on Jan 31, 2018 19:25:27 GMT -6
How many of you guys are involved with PBIS? I’m part of our schools implementation team and I’m constantly thinking back to how this also applies to coaching. For those who are new to it or unaware, the basic gist is trying to create a system to positively (and socially) reward students for the kinds of behaviors we want. It’s the new hotness of culture building but for your school. It’s really got my wheels turning for how I could approach building a programs culture in positive way, curious if anyone else has gone through this process and made the same connections. We did this at a school I was at several years ago. It was implemented by a Teach for America guy and It ended up getting scrapped because no Teacher’s ever gave “merits” to the good kids. The teachers didn’t notice them doing those things because they already did and the goobers were getting all the awards. You could say that is a good thing but it kind of spits in the face of the kids who always do good things when it doesn’t get noticed Ditto. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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PBIS
Jan 31, 2018 20:10:55 GMT -6
Post by coachbdud on Jan 31, 2018 20:10:55 GMT -6
Our school has been trying to go to it
problem is no one wants to come up with the money/prizes to reward kids
we went all technology based with a cell phone app system this year (we used these little tickets last year)
no one uses it
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PBIS
Jan 31, 2018 20:27:04 GMT -6
Post by 19delta on Jan 31, 2018 20:27:04 GMT -6
The acronyms, abbreviations, and initials just need to stop. The school my wife works at recently had an institute day so the could learn all about using the ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) Scale to provide counseling for kids who are having a bad time.
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PBIS
Jan 31, 2018 20:33:47 GMT -6
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Post by mholst40 on Jan 31, 2018 20:33:47 GMT -6
We just started implementing a school wide reward system with tickets. I’m trying to be positive about it, but there are ingrained problems.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 31, 2018 20:38:15 GMT -6
How many of you guys are involved with PBIS? I’m part of our schools implementation team and I’m constantly thinking back to how this also applies to coaching. For those who are new to it or unaware, the basic gist is trying to create a system to positively (and socially) reward students for the kinds of behaviors we want. It’s the new hotness of culture building but for your school. It’s really got my wheels turning for how I could approach building a programs culture in positive way, curious if anyone else has gone through this process and made the same connections. We did this at a school I was at several years ago. It was implemented by a Teach for America guy and It ended up getting scrapped because no Teacher’s ever gave “merits” to the good kids. The teachers didn’t notice them doing those things because they already did and the goobers were getting all the awards. You could say that is a good thing but it kind of spits in the face of the kids who always do good things when it doesn’t get noticed Yep. A school I coached at used PBIS. This was a tough school in a high-crime urban area with a lot of low-income students. Anyway, after a couple months, the district superintendent held a press conference in which she bragged of the success of the new disciplinary process. She kept talking about how suspensions and expulsions were at the lowest rates in years. Well, OF COURSE the rates of suspensions and expulsions went down. That's because the superintendent directed the building principals to not suspend kids anymore or put them up for expulsion! What a $hitshow that place was...talk about the clowns running the circus. We did not call the program PBIS. We called it "Hugs For Thugs".
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PBIS
Feb 1, 2018 5:06:27 GMT -6
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Feb 1, 2018 5:06:27 GMT -6
How many of you guys are involved with PBIS? I’m part of our schools implementation team and I’m constantly thinking back to how this also applies to coaching. For those who are new to it or unaware, the basic gist is trying to create a system to positively (and socially) reward students for the kinds of behaviors we want. It’s the new hotness of culture building but for your school. It’s really got my wheels turning for how I could approach building a programs culture in positive way, curious if anyone else has gone through this process and made the same connections. PBIS sounds great in concept but actually de motivates students to because it reinforces that there are “good” and “bad”kids (anti- growth mindset), cripples intrinsic motivation, and leads to kids stealing the rewards from each other. It ends up with you rewarding kids for doing base line functions and creates learned helplessness. People do it because it’s an “easy” way to seemingly improve behavior and shows limited results for a short period of time. The following links explain this paradox more clearly and give a blue print on how to shift away from this: ww2.kqed.org/mindshift/2017/08/29/how-ending-behavior-rewards-helped-one-school-focus-on-student-motivation-and-character/ww2.kqed.org/mindshift/category/mindshiftpodcast/
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PBIS
Feb 1, 2018 5:11:31 GMT -6
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Feb 1, 2018 5:11:31 GMT -6
Restorative Justice practices and natural, logical progression of consequences (positive and negative) better way to go. For example positive consequences are get in weight room and look good at the beach, get to brag about being on the team, get swag, etc. work way more than artificial programs like PBIS, most urban ed schools don’t have the resources, training, or teacher buy in to even do PBIS “correctly”
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Post by blb on Feb 1, 2018 6:18:48 GMT -6
Another example of how public education has gone Through the Looking Glass.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 1, 2018 6:43:37 GMT -6
I was at a school that instituted PBIS. The BS part fit well, could never figure out the P and I though.
My interpretation of the the system was the idea of positive correlation rather than just positive rewards. Meaning, if a kid had acted in a negative manner, that he or she would receive a negative consequence (correction). If a kid acted in a positive manner, then the kid would receive a positive consequence (reward). However, the administration I was at eliminated the first part. There was never any correction period. If kids had broken an infraction, the administration would talk to them about all of the illustrious awards (candy bars, ice cream parties, etc.) they could earn if they chose to make better decisions.
In football and in the classroom I think consistencies is the key. When a player gives something you want from them you give them some kind of reward (positive praise, helmet sticker, gatorade) and when they do something they aren't supposed to they receive correction (corrective comments, extra reps, clean up equipment after practice, whatever).
PBIS is just more of the same educational wrapping paper and a bow; no one cares what's in the box as long as it looks pretty under the tree. Hopefully, it was at least instituted by some person that was tired of making teacher salary, and tired of listening to the 1,000s of dollar a day Mr.-Know-It-Alls that present at PDs but can't hack it in the classroom, so they decided to go for the big bucks in educational consulting rather than crawl through the administrative and bureaucratic bullshhit.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 1, 2018 7:57:23 GMT -6
We did this at a school I was at several years ago. It was implemented by a Teach for America guy and It ended up getting scrapped because no Teacher’s ever gave “merits” to the good kids. The teachers didn’t notice them doing those things because they already did and the goobers were getting all the awards. You could say that is a good thing but it kind of spits in the face of the kids who always do good things when it doesn’t get noticed Yep. A school I coached at used PBIS. This was a tough school in a high-crime urban area with a lot of low-income students. Anyway, after a couple months, the district superintendent held a press conference in which she bragged of the success of the new disciplinary process. She kept talking about how suspensions and expulsions were at the lowest rates in years. Well, OF COURSE the rates of suspensions and expulsions went down. That's because the superintendent directed the building principals to not suspend kids anymore or put them up for expulsion! What a $hitshow that place was...talk about the clowns running the circus. We did not call the program PBIS. We called it "Hugs For Thugs". Sounds like my district. Just almost choked on my coffee when I read "Hugs for thugs" I can just see our admin rolling out that slogan! LMAO
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Post by fshamrock on Feb 1, 2018 9:07:08 GMT -6
I don't know what this is but it sounds horrible reminds me of the time they said that we had too many minority kids going to detention and alternative school and it needed to change, so they just told us not to write up minority kids anymore...we had "re-directors" who's job it was to walk around the halls and if they saw a kid who had been thrown out of class they were to redirect their behavior to something positive like making shadow puppets or something I guess.
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nhs40
Freshmen Member
Posts: 64
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PBIS
Feb 1, 2018 9:54:26 GMT -6
Post by nhs40 on Feb 1, 2018 9:54:26 GMT -6
Further evidence of how we are trying to hold young people less accountable and with lower expectations. I miss the idea of doing what you're supposed to do, because that's what, and how, it's supposed to be done, and if you don't, your folks are going to whip your butt. Our district is doing it at the elementary and JH levels, and discussing bringing it up to the HS level. There is VERY strong push-back currently.
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Post by wolverine55 on Feb 1, 2018 10:16:34 GMT -6
Our school is a PBIS school. To me, it is one of those ideas that sounds great on paper, but not so much in practicality. The goal is that you basically "peer pressure" students into positive behavior once they see that is being rewarded. The problem is twofold. One, you have those kids who will never buy in and will be a problem no matter what, so yes negative behavior and consequences must be in place anyway. Second, as has been pointed out, the kids that no matter what will behave and do what they are supposed to are the ones that fall through the cracks. A student on my SPED roster asked me one time if she had done anything wrong all year and I told her that, to my knowledge, she hadn't. She then asked me why she wasn't one of the ones getting recognized for the weekly awards or monthly drawings. Opened my eyes to the flaws in the system.
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PBIS
Feb 1, 2018 10:24:28 GMT -6
Post by newt21 on Feb 1, 2018 10:24:28 GMT -6
We have it, and at the end of the day it really is a "reward" for the kids that act a fool. There are 3 tiers of behavior, tier 1 is the average kid, tier 2 is the one who needs minor "interventions", and tier 3 is the kid that needs major "interventions". When you're tier 2/3, you walk around with a little piece of paper and the teachers give you points on your goals (whether or not you reached them) and if you get x number of points at the end of the day, you get a treat.
What does this teach little Timmy? That he can be a total jerk, get into the system with a check in/check out sheet, get his points, act like a jerk after that, and get rewarded with a free soda and candy bar. Oh, Timmy has been good 3 days in a row, let's take him out of his math class so he can have a reward time with Johnny where they can play pokemon for an hour; even though neither Timmy nor Johnny can multiply.
If a kid does something they're supposed to do, you're supposed to reward them. I decided that I wasn't going to reward a kid for doing what they should be doing, I was going to reward them when they went above and beyond. I basically made it rain "school $" on the kids that went above and beyond and the kids that were always doing the right thing because the other teachers were rewarding the turds in hope of changing their behavior.
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PBIS
Feb 1, 2018 11:06:55 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Feb 1, 2018 11:06:55 GMT -6
I don't know what this is but it sounds horrible reminds me of the time they said that we had too many minority kids going to detention and alternative school and it needed to change, so they just told us not to write up minority kids anymore...we had "re-directors" who's job it was to walk around the halls and if they saw a kid who had been thrown out of class they were to redirect their behavior to something positive like making shadow puppets or something I guess. Shadow puppets...that is great!
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Post by funkfriss on Feb 1, 2018 11:34:33 GMT -6
Anybody ever read Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel Pink? If you haven't I highly recommend it.
Mr. Pink would tell you what a crock PBIS and other programs of its ilk are. PBIS generate two outcomes:
1. Teachers and admin can feel good about themselves 2. Admin can say "Look at what we're doing to curb delinquent behavior" to appease parents and the school board, but numbers don't support it
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