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Post by wheels1284 on Jan 11, 2018 9:05:12 GMT -6
We often have our punt return team run off the field as soon as the ball is punted. It's nearly impossible for us to get a return because of bad punters not kicking the ball far enough. The risk of the ball hitting one of our guys far outweighs the prospect of getting a return. Our parents scream and yell from the stands and then the punter shanks one 15 yards off the side of his foot and they still don't get it. To me, the most important thing is having the ball after a punt.
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Post by coachfloyd on Jan 11, 2018 9:25:16 GMT -6
There were people here advocating it years ago based on their experience that many opposing coaches didn't know Fed rules -- they'd come on board during the era in which NFL and NCAA had begun to treat "field goal attempts" differently and thought they'd be getting some field position bargain by just letting the ball be kicked and die when it was obvious a field goal was hopeless. How long did they think that situation of ignorance would last? our fans got upset that we werent arguing about getting the ball at the original line of scrimmage. It took some explaining until I finally said "Dude I dont know what to tell you. I didnt make the rule."
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 11, 2018 9:31:17 GMT -6
We often have our punt return team run off the field as soon as the ball is punted. It's nearly impossible for us to get a return because of bad punters not kicking the ball far enough. The risk of the ball hitting one of our guys far outweighs the prospect of getting a return. Our parents scream and yell from the stands and then the punter shanks one 15 yards off the side of his foot and they still don't get it. To me, the most important thing is having the ball after a punt. You're exhibiting a common trait of football coaches: a preference for control. A bad punt that stays in the middle of the field may be poison, but a shanked punt presents some great opportunities for a runback by players other than your usual returners. The coverage team is mostly looking the wrong way and out of position when a ball comes down short and near a sideline. I might call it poison if conservatively protecting a lead, but otherwise it's something that should be taken maximum advantage of even if it means a player not used to handling the ball has to play a wobbly or bouncing one.
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Post by wheels1284 on Jan 11, 2018 9:45:24 GMT -6
We often have our punt return team run off the field as soon as the ball is punted. It's nearly impossible for us to get a return because of bad punters not kicking the ball far enough. The risk of the ball hitting one of our guys far outweighs the prospect of getting a return. Our parents scream and yell from the stands and then the punter shanks one 15 yards off the side of his foot and they still don't get it. To me, the most important thing is having the ball after a punt. You're exhibiting a common trait of football coaches: a preference for control. A bad punt that stays in the middle of the field may be poison, but a shanked punt presents some great opportunities for a runback by players other than your usual returners. The coverage team is mostly looking the wrong way and out of position when a ball comes down short and near a sideline. I might call it poison if conservatively protecting a lead, but otherwise it's something that should be taken maximum advantage of even if it means a player not used to handling the ball has to play a wobbly or bouncing one. Is it bad as a football coach to want to have control over things that can go catastrophically bad for your team? I have literally never seen a player other than the punt returner do anything positive with the ball but I have seen a ball hit one of our guys numerous times.
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Post by tatertide03 on Jan 11, 2018 10:30:21 GMT -6
Our Kicker this year could kick field goals father and had better control so we did this the last 4 games of the year and got 10 yards farther on our punts and had zero returns as he could kick it higher and pin them around the numbers and hash. Field Goal Punt was good for us.
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Post by veerwego on Jan 11, 2018 11:24:21 GMT -6
Some teams do FG punt b/c they do not have someone who can effectively snap the ball deep on punts, some do it for protection.
I suppose it is one less thing to practice.
I don't know how you can coach and not know the rules. I have never coached on a team that didn't teach the FG team how to cover FGs.
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Post by rudyrude9 on Jan 11, 2018 13:18:35 GMT -6
You're exhibiting a common trait of football coaches: a preference for control. A bad punt that stays in the middle of the field may be poison, but a shanked punt presents some great opportunities for a runback by players other than your usual returners. The coverage team is mostly looking the wrong way and out of position when a ball comes down short and near a sideline. I might call it poison if conservatively protecting a lead, but otherwise it's something that should be taken maximum advantage of even if it means a player not used to handling the ball has to play a wobbly or bouncing one. Is it bad as a football coach to want to have control over things that can go catastrophically bad for your team? I have literally never seen a player other than the punt returner do anything positive with the ball but I have seen a ball hit one of our guys numerous times. I would argue that the worst coached position in high school football is punt returner. I will trade a muff or two per season for the 4 to 500 yards of field position I see teams give away. Punt returners must catch the ball for us.
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Post by wheels1284 on Jan 11, 2018 15:32:33 GMT -6
Is it bad as a football coach to want to have control over things that can go catastrophically bad for your team? I have literally never seen a player other than the punt returner do anything positive with the ball but I have seen a ball hit one of our guys numerous times. I would argue that the worst coached position in high school football is punt returner. I will trade a muff or two per season for the 4 to 500 yards of field position I see teams give away. Punt returners must catch the ball for us.
In a perfect world, we would catch every punt, but when the ball is likely to travel 25 yards in the air and we aren't sure where it's going it makes more sense to be safe if the kid can't kick the ball at all. We don't do it all the time. I would say last year we maybe lost 50 yards total because of it and it was well worth it. If we played in a league with guys who can actually punt I wouldn't do it but it works for us.
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Post by coachdavis86 on Jan 12, 2018 7:36:17 GMT -6
we wear shorts and volleyball knee pads for practice instead of practice pants!
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Post by coachdmyers on Jan 12, 2018 9:39:31 GMT -6
we wear shorts and volleyball knee pads for practice instead of practice pants! That's funny, that's something that's caught on in a big way around where I'm at too.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 12, 2018 9:52:51 GMT -6
2 things we do that's unconventional (for this area):
1) We play our players one way (although some defenders are used in our goalline offense package)
2) We go for two instead of PATs
Not that crazy, but people act like I'm a nutbag because of this lol
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Post by CoachM58 on Jan 12, 2018 10:07:21 GMT -6
Side Saddle T is the pride of my hometown! Nothing like some good 6 Power/5 Reverse
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jan 12, 2018 10:40:30 GMT -6
Our Kicker this year could kick field goals father and had better control so we did this the last 4 games of the year and got 10 yards farther on our punts and had zero returns as he could kick it higher and pin them around the numbers and hash. Field Goal Punt was good for us. I'm assuming that you had different personnel and formation from your actual FG team.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 12, 2018 10:55:09 GMT -6
Our Kicker this year could kick field goals father and had better control so we did this the last 4 games of the year and got 10 yards farther on our punts and had zero returns as he could kick it higher and pin them around the numbers and hash. Field Goal Punt was good for us. I'm assuming that you had different personnel and formation from your actual FG team. That is a great point. I just don't see how coverage can be great with trying to protect and then you usually have big boys protecting which aren't great for coverage. I can completely see how this could be ok the first time and maybe even the first game. But after that, no way. No way to get a FG try as high and a FG/Kickoff is MUCH easier to catch than a punt.
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Post by coachthomason on Jan 12, 2018 11:58:38 GMT -6
we wear shorts and volleyball knee pads for practice instead of practice pants! We're going to start doing that next year.
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Post by mnike23 on Jan 12, 2018 12:06:52 GMT -6
Run the wing t!!!!! We are the only under center wing t team in our entire league. funny you mention that!!! so there are 3 teams that run flexbone in the significant area. 1 is a triple team, the other is a hybrid and the last is a triple team. 2 single wing teams and the rest are shot gun offenses. I go to a new school last spring and with having a wing T background, I think lets go wing T and sprinkle some 2x2 just because. we go red/blue and 2x2 all spring. beat a team(1 of the flexbone teams ironically) as they were not ready to see counter criss cross, belly counter, sally. literally scored 2x on CCC and 1 each on the others. it was awesome. my plan had flat out worked. fall games start and 2 teams(1 does single wing and wing t) decide to add to the puzzle and run wing t...... so friggin annoyed. lol i guess i should be flattered that someone followed my thought process(nobody runs it, way to hard to prepare for in 3 days). is what it is, i guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 12:23:21 GMT -6
When I coached small school ball, about 70% of our opponents ran a swinging gate or lonesome polecat package in 2 pt. conversion and FG situations. They never actually kicked it.
I also coached against one of those schools that was all Cov. 0 all the time against everything with 2 fronts: a 5-2 and a Pro 4-3. It was a super simple defense, but they did OK with it in a league where only one team threw the ball much.
We also had an opponent there who ran about 15 trick plays per game. They were godawful fundamentally, but a real PITA to prepare for. Flea flickers, WR double passes, HB passes, double reverse passes, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 12:28:14 GMT -6
we wear shorts and volleyball knee pads for practice instead of practice pants! I coached at a school where we did this all season. We were in shells with thud tempo. It didn't make us any less physical and we had no injuries because of it, but it did cut way down on our laundry.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 12, 2018 20:40:26 GMT -6
Some teams do FG punt b/c they do not have someone who can effectively snap the ball deep on punts, some do it for protection. I can't imagine their snapper has an easier time delivering the ball to someone who's kneeling than to someone who's standing and can more quickly adjust to a bad snap. Nothing says the punter has to stand very deep either. Also surprising they hadn't thought of delivering the ball via pitchout from the QB. Plus, the protection you need for a place kick has to be more leak-proof than for a punt.
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Jan 12, 2018 22:39:52 GMT -6
I talked to a defensive coordinator that I really like a whole lot a while back and he talked about a team that about about 20 years ago did something similar to the drawing you put up, at least in theory. They switched it around a bit more than what you have drawn. Anyway, they were an OPTION TEAM. By that, I don't mean that they ran option every now and then, but instead regardless of any formation they aligned in, from Double Tight Bone, to having only a center and two guards with a QB and FB, with the other six spread evenly with three way far left and three way far right, they tried their absolute best to run some sort of an OPTION play every time. He said they went through a kick where they ran a bunch of the last formation I talked about. Remind you this was twenty years ago or so, so that the idea of running a crazy formation was way out there as far as how people planned for it. They put a center with two guards and a QB/FB. Then, they had trips each way, with two of them being on the L.O.S. HOWEVER, they would not throw the ball. They were just begging for teams to spread themselves out way too thin so that they could run a bastardized form of option against only a few players aligned over the center and two guards. He said that he just called their bluff and aligned almost an entire 4-4 against those few players with definitely not enough defenders to stop the wide "trips" each way. They didn't feel confident enough to throw the ball with any regularity, and definitely not with any efficiency, so they eventually just stopped doing it.
Anyway, just saying that you gotta make sure crazy actually takes advantage of everything that it is. They didn't, and it backfired against a team that called them out.
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Post by Hitch & Pitch on Jan 12, 2018 23:03:35 GMT -6
When I coached small school ball, about 70% of our opponents ran a swinging gate or lonesome polecat package in 2 pt. conversion and FG situations. They never actually kicked it. I also coached against one of those schools that was all Cov. 0 all the time against everything with 2 fronts: a 5-2 and a Pro 4-3. It was a super simple defense, but they did OK with it in a league where only one team threw the ball much. We also had an opponent there who ran about 15 trick plays per game. They were godawful fundamentally, but a real PITA to prepare for. Flea flickers, WR double passes, HB passes, double reverse passes, etc. A team in my league does the same thing with gadget plays. They do a pretty good job running toss sweep towards twin WRS tightly aligned. So they run HB Pass, reverse with X WR, reverse throw back to the QB, inside counter to the slot. They'll run all this in a pre-season scrimmage as well. In addition they fake punts and KOR reverses.
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Post by mwpilots on Jan 14, 2018 4:56:05 GMT -6
For a couple of seasons, I ran No Huddle Double Wing. Teams hated playing me, and they would tell me so.
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Post by bobdoc78 on Jan 14, 2018 6:11:31 GMT -6
We are no huddle option like Navy. We do short motion return and the team looks to the sideline. Opponents, fans,officials have never seen it before and are amazed by it.
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Post by joker31 on Jan 14, 2018 19:57:57 GMT -6
Run the wing t!!!!! We are the only under center wing t team in our entire league. Hahaha! Us too
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Post by coachfrigo on Jan 15, 2018 20:18:53 GMT -6
Anyone design hook and ladder plays as anything more than a gimmick?
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Post by veerwego on Jan 16, 2018 7:49:38 GMT -6
Some teams do FG punt b/c they do not have someone who can effectively snap the ball deep on punts, some do it for protection. I can't imagine their snapper has an easier time delivering the ball to someone who's kneeling than to someone who's standing and can more quickly adjust to a bad snap. Nothing says the punter has to stand very deep either. Also surprising they hadn't thought of delivering the ball via pitchout from the QB. Plus, the protection you need for a place kick has to be more leak-proof than for a punt. I think the only team I have ever heard of that did this in our state did it because they couldn't snap it effectively 13+ yards, but could manage the 7 to the holder.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 16, 2018 9:07:19 GMT -6
I can't imagine their snapper has an easier time delivering the ball to someone who's kneeling than to someone who's standing and can more quickly adjust to a bad snap. Nothing says the punter has to stand very deep either. Also surprising they hadn't thought of delivering the ball via pitchout from the QB. Plus, the protection you need for a place kick has to be more leak-proof than for a punt. I think the only team I have ever heard of that did this in our state did it because they couldn't snap it effectively 13+ yards, but could manage the 7 to the holder. So they could snap it 7 yds. to a kneeling player but couldn't snap it 8-9 yds. to a standing one? Whoever said you had to get the ball back 13 yds. if you wanted to punt? Once I saw a team have trouble getting the ball even 5 yds. back, so their QB took the snap from under center, sidestepped, & punted in the A gap. Twice. Of course the 2nd time it was blocked.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 16, 2018 9:11:17 GMT -6
Anyone design hook and ladder plays as anything more than a gimmick? Design, yes, but that's all. It's part of a quick passing series. The threat of the lateral is so the defense respects the overlapping back out of the backfield even while the 1st pass is in the air.
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Post by coachfrigo on Jan 16, 2018 9:42:41 GMT -6
Anyone design hook and ladder plays as anything more than a gimmick? Design, yes, but that's all. It's part of a quick passing series. The threat of the lateral is so the defense respects the overlapping back out of the backfield even while the 1st pass is in the air. But surely you have to actually use it often enough to make them respect the threat.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 17, 2018 10:52:13 GMT -6
Design, yes, but that's all. It's part of a quick passing series. The threat of the lateral is so the defense respects the overlapping back out of the backfield even while the 1st pass is in the air. But surely you have to actually use it often enough to make them respect the threat. Same as with any series play. Ask someone who has buck lateral series or midline triple option how often they need to pitch. But unlike those two series, this pitch would be safer because the passer and receiver would have their shoulders more or less facing each other's.
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