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Post by coachadam on Jan 2, 2018 15:39:34 GMT -6
Coaches,
I am curious how everyone feels about how coaches interact and their behavior on the sidelines. In the college playoff games I saw both of the head coaches (Saban and Swinney) go off on a coordinator after something didn't go right.
Personally, I know last year our head coach went off on one of our coordinators (for something relatively small) and he totally shut down as a coach during the game. He became timid and quiet because he didn't want to get lambasted again. I've been screamed at during a game and reacted both positively and negatively but I have never argued with another coach in front of the players.
In the past I've had a head coach say coaches shouldn't go at each other on the sidelines because the kids then have a tendency to act the same way towards each other.
I've also had a head coach say air it out, especially if it will make a difference in the game.
What's everyone's thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 15:43:03 GMT -6
"Youre not going to last very long in this game if you dont like confrontation"-Bill Parcells
Part of the gig, sometimes you get yelled at, sometimes you yell back
Staffs argue, then afterward you go get beverages
If you cant do that then...probably not in the right profession
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Post by coachfitz on Jan 2, 2018 15:46:25 GMT -6
The biggest blow ups I've witnessed were in the box and over the headsets, so the players didn't even know about it.
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Post by coachdubyah on Jan 2, 2018 15:58:24 GMT -6
Five years ago I used to get my panties in a wad about getting griped at. After that i quit caring. If you’re worth you’re salt as a coach you just roll with it. Just be confident in what you do and don’t take it personally. Ive lashed back at my bosses before and that’s not right either. Just take it and move on.
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Post by hoptions on Jan 2, 2018 16:08:06 GMT -6
I have had it both ways. What we need to be carefull of is not questioning scheme in front of players. That will cause a divide on the team that will be cancerous.
But coaches do get yelled at and yell back about performance can be benifitial to the team as long as nobody get all but hurt about it. And if you do your in the wrong profession.
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Post by blb on Jan 2, 2018 16:24:31 GMT -6
1) The Head Coach is not always right - but: He is always the head coach.
It's his name on the W-L record.
2) Football is an emotional game. You can't take what is said in the "heat of the moment" - especially on phones-head sets - personally or you won't be in the game very long.
The time to discuss disagreements is in staff meetings.
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2018 16:29:29 GMT -6
I frankly think its (losing your cool and yelling at an AC) a load of crap, and has a lot to do with ego. You gotta remember, many assistant coaches are also teachers at the school and working with these kids outside of football. If a HC goes and rips into the AC in front of the players then he is taking him down a peg in front of his students and opening up for his students to do the same; making it harder to be effective in both professions. To be honest if I had a HC flip out on me I'd tell him I'm a grown man and he needs to speak to me as such.
I think back to the story of when Lombardi was ripping into Bart Starr in front of his team, and then asking him to be a leader at the same time. Starr went to Lombardi privately and told him that if he wanted Starr to lead he had to quit tearing him down in front of his players. Lombardi listened and wouldn't rip him in front of his teammates anymore.
I think its best to provide a united front to the players, fans, and community. If you have an assistant who makes a mistake then reprimand him in a respectable way, keeping in mind he's a grown man who should be treated as such. Moreover, if your AC made a mistake, then it probably comes back to you as a HC for not coaching him up as a coach the right way- so look at yourself and what you could be doing better, and if you need to freak out on someone freak out on yourself.
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Post by blb on Jan 2, 2018 16:34:40 GMT -6
I frankly think its (losing your cool and yelling at an AC) a load of crap, and has a lot to do with ego. You gotta remember, many assistant coaches are also teachers at the school and working with these kids outside of football. If a HC goes and rips into the AC in front of the players then he is taking him down a peg in front of his students and opening up for his students to do the same; making it harder to be effective in both professions. To be honest if I had a HC flip out on me I'd tell him I'm a grown man and he needs to speak to me as such. I think back to the story of when Lombardi was ripping into Bart Starr in front of his team, and then asking him to be a leader at the same time. Starr went to Lombardi privately and told him that if he wanted Starr to lead he had to quit tearing him down in front of his players. Lombardi listened and wouldn't rip him in front of his teammates anymore. I think its best to provide a united front to the players, fans, and community. If you have an assistant who makes a mistake then reprimand him in a respectable way, keeping in mind he's a grown man who should be treated as such. Moreover, if your AC made a mistake, then it probably comes back to you as a HC for not coaching him up as a coach the right way- so look at yourself and what you could be doing better, and if you need to freak out on someone freak out on yourself. carookie
You make many good points.
HCs need to be very self-aware and introspective for the good of themselves as well as program.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 2, 2018 17:25:07 GMT -6
Not a fan of ripping a grown man on the sideline.
But Saban had just got plowed and you know the adreline was at full steam and he couldn’t hit anyone. That and “run the DAMN ball!”
I know he blew up at Kiffin some, but who hasn't wanted to slap him? Just kidding. Just kidding
I think you know what you are getting when you sign up for coaching with Saban. That and a nice resume builder and fat paycheck.
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Post by CS on Jan 2, 2018 17:56:53 GMT -6
Give me Daboll’s paycheck and Saban can take a sh!t in my front yard for all I care. With as much money as these guys make then yeah they’re gonna get yelled at if they don’t do what’s expected.
I got yelled at once for subbing a LB out to talk to him when it wasn’t my decision. I didn’t get in my feelings I just took it told him he was being an a$$hole and we went about our business.
I didn’t sub anyone without asking again
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Post by Defcord on Jan 2, 2018 17:58:26 GMT -6
Our HC is a spazz. He’s young and he freaks out about stuff but he’s pretty fair about it and he always apologizes afterward. It doesn’t matter if you are the waterboy or the defensive coordnator if you make a mistake you are going to hear it. At times he will justify it by saying his coach was worse but also acknowledged it as something he wants to get better at. He got me twice this year (once because we blocked a screen wrong and once because I lost my eyes on a play and he asked what one of my lbs did and I told him I had no clue) , but I knew it was my fault so I was already more critical on myself than he could ever be.
The thing about him is we as a staff love working for him so it doesn’t get to us. One of the players told me once “I don’t like when coach yells at me but you know what? The coach before didnt coach or care so I still am happy we have him.”
There’s a lot of tempers in this game so a lot this comes down to relationships. A little yelling is okay as long as everyone has mutual trust and respect.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 2, 2018 18:38:14 GMT -6
I thought this was going to be a thread about behavior like Tom Herman's at the end of that game. That's FAR more of a problem than guys getting pissy with an opportunity to play for a national championship on the line.
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Post by 60zgo on Jan 2, 2018 19:11:21 GMT -6
The vast majority of head football coaches are autocrats or believe the autocratic style is best. It kind of goes with the territory.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Jan 2, 2018 19:17:37 GMT -6
The irony is that there isn't a coach out there that will say you can win without being disciplined...but there are many coaches who lose their own discipline in the moment.
I've done it and am not proud of it.
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Post by fantom on Jan 2, 2018 19:18:09 GMT -6
We used to joke that a coach was a rookie until he'd been fired twice during games.
There's a lot of immediacy and testosterone during games. Stuff happens. I've been barked at during games. When I thought I was right i barked back. When I was wrong I took it. When it was over it was over.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 2, 2018 19:27:28 GMT -6
Something else to consider is crowd noise. They are already speaking at louder levels (which raises the intensity) when trying to talk normally.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 19:31:46 GMT -6
Yelling at your own guys usually isnt anything big, like i said it happens
Yelling at other teams staff MUCH bigger problem
If were yelling at each other were good.
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Post by carookie on Jan 2, 2018 19:54:59 GMT -6
Something else to consider is crowd noise. They are already speaking at louder levels (which raises the intensity) when trying to talk normally. I get this. I had an assistant principal who told me I was the only coach he could hear all the way up from his office (quite a distance from the practice field). I've scared nearby younger siblings in the crowd when trying to get the attention of my receiver on the opposite side of the field; not yelling in anger- just a loud voice.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Jan 2, 2018 20:14:58 GMT -6
If he can legitimately explain why, I don’t have a problem with it. I’ve been on the wrong end of those conversations and as humiliating as it can be in some ways, I just always tell myself this is his show. The success and failure of this program hinges on him not me. So if he’s uptight and something isn’t to his liking, tear me apart.
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Post by Defcord on Jan 2, 2018 20:17:08 GMT -6
Something else to consider is crowd noise. They are already speaking at louder levels (which raises the intensity) when trying to talk normally. I get this. I had an assistant principal who told me I was the only coach he could hear all the way up from his office (quite a distance from the practice field). I've scared nearby younger siblings in the crowd when trying to get the attention of my receiver on the opposite side of the field; not yelling in anger- just a loud voice. I have never had this issue in football but in baseball I constantly have to remind them in practice and games that the distance will cause me to "yell to them" and not "at them." Although not as often as I get older, but the latter has occurred on occasion.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 2, 2018 20:40:58 GMT -6
At the college level I suppose it is or could be part of the game.
As a head coach I never chewed out an assistant during a game. I had two assistants get into once about subbing after the game in the coaches office once. I dog-cussed a narcissistic assistant once at a meeting. But that is about it.
As an assistant I have not been yelled at by the head coach. Yet.
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Post by coachadam on Jan 2, 2018 20:58:48 GMT -6
I frankly think its (losing your cool and yelling at an AC) a load of crap, and has a lot to do with ego. You gotta remember, many assistant coaches are also teachers at the school and working with these kids outside of football. If a HC goes and rips into the AC in front of the players then he is taking him down a peg in front of his students and opening up for his students to do the same; making it harder to be effective in both professions. To be honest if I had a HC flip out on me I'd tell him I'm a grown man and he needs to speak to me as such. I think back to the story of when Lombardi was ripping into Bart Starr in front of his team, and then asking him to be a leader at the same time. Starr went to Lombardi privately and told him that if he wanted Starr to lead he had to quit tearing him down in front of his players. Lombardi listened and wouldn't rip him in front of his teammates anymore. I think its best to provide a united front to the players, fans, and community. If you have an assistant who makes a mistake then reprimand him in a respectable way, keeping in mind he's a grown man who should be treated as such. Moreover, if your AC made a mistake, then it probably comes back to you as a HC for not coaching him up as a coach the right way- so look at yourself and what you could be doing better, and if you need to freak out on someone freak out on yourself. This is the approach I very much believe in. I don’t mind if I get my butt chewed, especially if I deserve it. But not in front of the kids I’m supposed to turn around and coach again. They need to believe in me as a coach and not doubt what I’m telling them. I got my a$$ chewed in a game this year because I adjusted a player pre snap. We were misaligned and if I didn’t do it there was going to be a dude uncovered (which means 6 points). Instead we gave up 15 or so yards for a first down. Post snap DC starts yelling at the kid. I interjected and said I told him to move and I absolutely got throttled by the DC. Coaches, players, and parents could hear everything plain as day. I took it like a champ. Between series I explained to him why I did it and then he started yelling at the kid who called the formation wrong. Post game I told him I didn’t appreciate getting throttled in front of the kids. Should I have fired back during his rant? My head coach says yes! Not necessarily my style to fire back but to no one’s surprise it wasn’t the last time I got yelled at.
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Post by wolfden12 on Jan 2, 2018 21:14:51 GMT -6
I think it goes with the profession however, with technology and such I can see you getting yourself in bind with parents, players, community, administration, etc.
I always think there is a right way and a wrong way. I think those who have a good relationship with the HFC (you do your job to the best of your ability) shrug it off, the ones who don't or are always brought up struggle. I get ripped for stuff I have no control over i.e. slow internet speed, camera guy missing angles, assistant coaches miss labeling a play, countdown clock not changed 1 hour after the game, but it doesn't bother me anymore. It used to, but I just laugh and roll with it. There are other times I have gotten ripped in practice and games whether a wrong signal or kid screws up and the HFC comes after me and I do one of two things 1. admit it was my fault or 2. keep my mouth shut. If he continues coming after me when I stay silent I just admit "my fault" regardless so we can move on. We have coached with guys who deserve it (food on the field during pre-game, on phone, etc.) and they beat themselves up. If I notice it, I usually try to cut it off before hand and give them a heads-up on what is expected and appropriate at the time. If I catch them again or the HFC its on. I will let you know quietly then we will have a talk in the office.
It is a sport and profession that brings passionate people out. If I didn't have a guy who "lost it" at times I would worry however, there are plenty of coaches who are calm and reserved and it works. I think if you are going to yell and rip someone it has to be a certain way and in a certain place dependent on the situation.
Final thought: The DC and myself got into it after a 7 on 7/scrimmage 2 years ago. He made a comment about a kid's poor performance and complaining about depth yada yada yada. I replied, "he's ok, he'll get better, be patient". It is 6 weeks before the opener. He goes off on me about coaching him up (I am an offensive coach and help assist the DB coach (CB's) during indy. We immaturely get into a screaming match on the field at the conclusion of this scrimmage. The HFC doesn't say anything to him just me. He says, "cut it out. you embarrassing me". He was right. I apologized. We got into the coaches office and all the other coaches were on pins and needles when we both entered the coaches locker room. The other coach (we are close friends and have worked together the longest and known each other the longest) started looking around and asked "what never argued or got called out". I apologized and see affirmed "we good". I learned a lesson that it is what you show and where that effects all parties involved. Fans, players and other coaches saw this embarrassing display. I should've just spoke to him later in the day when we or I cooled down.
Live and Learn.
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Post by lonniebob on Jan 2, 2018 21:19:32 GMT -6
I thought this was going to be a thread about behavior like Tom Herman's at the end of that game. That's FAR more of a problem than guys getting pissy with an opportunity to play for a national championship on the line. This... I have no problem with Saban and Swinney getting after an assistant coach. It has happened to me in the past by HCs that I have worked for and ultimately, I am a better coach because of them. What I do have an issue is someone like Tom Herman mocking a player. This just screams immaturity. It is one thing to celebrate with your players but another to mock one. At some point you have to be the adult. To each their own...
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Post by wolfden12 on Jan 2, 2018 21:45:06 GMT -6
I thought this was going to be a thread about behavior like Tom Herman's at the end of that game. That's FAR more of a problem than guys getting pissy with an opportunity to play for a national championship on the line. This... I have no problem with Saban and Swinney getting after an assistant coach. It has happened to me in the past by HCs that I have worked for and ultimately, I am a better coach because of them. What I do have an issue is someone like Tom Herman mocking a player. This just screams immaturity. It is one thing to celebrate with your players but another to mock one. At some point you have to be the adult. To each their own... There were some people saying this is fine because it showed players another side and he relates to them (joking around). Pure garbage in my opinion!
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Post by fkaboneyard on Jan 2, 2018 22:37:00 GMT -6
A few years back our HC tore into me for suggesting we hook a certain kid playing defensive tackle because he was getting absolutely destroyed. This took place at halftime when there were no players around but most of the coaching staff was. The HC was a prig about it, took some personal shots at me and then said, “Fine, we’ll go with your suggestion, you watch how this works” as though I was making the most insane suggestion ever. We were getting our asses kicked by the other team (our rival – a school where he had once coached) so I chalked his behavior up to that and let it roll of my back. The other coaches were quietly telling me, “He’s out of line”, “You shouldn’t allow him to talk to you like that”, etc. He implemented my suggestion and it actually worked. It wasn’t the only reason but it was a big reason we came back and beat the other team in a nailbiter. I know that if I had gotten into a wang measuring contest things would have gone sideways and we would have not won that game.
Two weeks later at a Wednesday practice we were running team and he started hollering at me, I mean completely losing his mind, because our D linemen weren’t two-gapping. From the day this guy took over the program he preached, “We’ll never have the athletes to two gap, anybody teaches two-gapping and they will be gone.” It was so contrary to everything he had ever said that I thought he was joking and I started to chuckle. He didn’t take that too well and started storming over to me. I said, “Coach, as long as you have been here you’ve said we’ll never two gap.” He said, “I changed it yesterday, if you had been at practice you’d have known.” Now, I was a volunteer coach but as dedicated (if not more) than any of the paid staff. And he knew ahead of time that I wouldn’t be at practice the day before because my toddler daughter was having surgery. So several “MF’s, don’t you ever question me and my commitment, if you knew how to manage a staff you’d be 13-0 every year, I’ll shove this whistle up your ass, etc.” he apologized. And then kissed my rear the rest of the time I coached for him.
I was willing to break him in a practice not in a game. Still, doing either in my opinion is not healthy for a team. Do it in private or in a coaches meeting, don’t do it in front of a bunch of high school kids because they don’t really have the ability to put things in context.
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Post by coachadam on Jan 3, 2018 8:36:27 GMT -6
I can relate to all that fkaboneyard! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 3, 2018 10:23:11 GMT -6
I coached with, he wasn't the HC but was brought in to be on staff with a new young HC as a mentor is the best way I can put it, a guy who's name would be recognizable to anyone who follows the college game at all. He was as old school as old school can be. He was around 3 years. Pretty sure he the whole staff on the verge of tears at least once a week. Was an insane environment to coach in. But I learned more about football in that time than I did at another point in my life. There were no apologies you took your beating and rolled with it because everyone was getting lit up.
Watching film and the WR ran the wrong route. He ran it back like 10 times. Ask me what happened. I said "he ran the wrong route told him what to run and not to do it again." Got about 3 plays past it when he turned to me and screamed "They told Hitler not to phucking bomb England but he still did! Make him run 100 100's! Don't do it again that's the dumbest phucking thing I have ever heard!" That was a lot of fun. 18 years later and I still get my balls busted about that.
No idea if that goes along with the thread but need to re-live those times every now and again to laugh about them or at least that's what the therapist told us all to do.
Should also mention to stay with the topic there were several times when coaches were destroyed during games over the head sets or him hanging out the press box window screaming down at the sideline for everyone to hear.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 3, 2018 10:33:20 GMT -6
Guys get yelled at, it happens, learn and move on.
I’ve been corrected and yelled at and the kids on the field and in the classroom still listened to me.
I’ve corrected and yelled at other coaches in front of players and coaches before. I could be wrong but why wouldn’t I fix the problem right then and if it’s something we’ve discussed multiple times, or you make a half a$$ excuse, or you throw the kids under the bus why am I out of line for yelling at you or getting on you about? It may not be the perfect way to do it but everyone is accountable.
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Post by carookie on Jan 3, 2018 10:42:35 GMT -6
Guys get yelled at, it happens, learn and move on.I’ve been corrected and yelled at and the kids on the field and in the classroom still listened to me. I’ve corrected and yelled at other coaches in front of players and coaches before. I could be wrong but why wouldn’t I fix the problem right then and if it’s something we’ve discussed multiple times, or you make a half a$$ excuse, or you throw the kids under the bus why am I out of line for yelling at you or getting on you about? It may not be the perfect way to do it but everyone is accountable. Lots of things happen, doesn't make them right. We can learn and move on from mistakes, but they are still mistakes. Its wrong to demean someone in public under the guise of "its an emotional sport", especially if their error is not one of direct insubordination. You can fix the problem right then and there without being unprofessional or demeaning.
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