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Post by 19delta on Dec 29, 2017 18:44:30 GMT -6
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 29, 2017 19:18:32 GMT -6
Wow.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Dec 29, 2017 21:43:23 GMT -6
Every time something like this happens I wonder how much of it was influenced by the new coach being in admin’s ears
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Post by CS on Dec 30, 2017 6:20:33 GMT -6
Every time something like this happens I wonder how much of it was influenced by the new coach being in admin’s ears In this case I would bet on some/a high profile parent/booster with an agenda. |
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Post by Defcord on Dec 30, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -6
I don’t know about a lot of guys but my high school coach was my hero growing up. If my high school called me and said they wanted to go a new direction and I was the guy they had in mind, then I would hang up. I don’t know what Lynch’s role is in this but even being the replacement is more than I would comfortable with.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2017 10:21:35 GMT -6
It would be interesting to see how he would fare. While he is obviously a tremendous program builder and coach, I would be really surprised if the program wasn't built in part by doing things that other programs can't/wouldn't do. A quick google search seems to paint Mt. Carmel as the stereotypical "private powerhouse" with recruiting infractions, and stories of lower socio -economic families claiming that their kids were asked to go to the school just to play ball. To be clear, not knocking a man I don't know, or a situation I am not personally involved with, but to compare it to something like JT Curtis at John Curtis I believe is fair. I will state with absolute certainty that Coach Curtis would never had won 25 state championships if he were not the HC of a family owned k-12 private school in a suburb of a metropolitan area with a population of between 1.2 and 1.4 million people centrally located such that players from at least 4 different parishes (counties) attended that often saw players repeat grade levels before this practice was outlawed by rule (yet with loopholes available at earlier ages...) |
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Post by s73 on Dec 30, 2017 10:58:14 GMT -6
Wow!
This to me smacks of the "peanut gallery" running things. Jordan Lynch what....27 years old or so. Former Heisman finalist, former pro baller, coach at NIU.....Lenti an old veer option guy. Let's bring in the new blood & bring MC into the 21st century.
Yep, somebody's been listening to pops in the stands. IMO this will be a disaster. Lynch has 1 year as a coach under his belt. I feel this move disrespects the coaching profession. It takes more of a "anybody can do it approach". Lynch has never even coordinated before.
As for anything nefarious with Lenti? School has a pretty clean record as far as I can tell. This seems wrong to me. When somebody has been as successful as this guy has w/ no major issues (as far as I can tell) he deserves to go out on his own merits. Plain & simple.
JMO.
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Post by silkyice on Dec 30, 2017 13:07:09 GMT -6
Winningest coach in state history. 11 state titles AND just made it to the semi’s.
Yep, fire that no good bum!
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Post by s73 on Dec 30, 2017 13:34:38 GMT -6
Winningest coach in state history. 11 state titles AND just made it to the semi’s. Yep, fire that no good bum! This whole thing reminds me so much of the Nebraska fiasco when they fired Frank Solich back in 2003. He was an Osbourne disciple w/ an "old school" philosophy and all he did was take runner up in the national championship in 2002 & win 9 games in 2003 & fired. Well.....they had hired a new AD the year before & he wanted to "make his mark" so he brought in B. Callahan from the NFL, he has to be better b/c he coached NFL ball right? I think we all know how that went. And...Nebraska football has never been the same. So many parallels, guy is successful & still fired by new admin b/c he had an "old school" approach which just isn't as good as winning w/ a "new school approach" for some reason. New guy coached (1 year, scary) at the "next level" so he must be better right? He's going to be new & dynamic (hate that word as it pertains to football). I see this as a microcosm of the same thing. Should be interesting to see how it plays out. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2017 13:35:21 GMT -6
. I feel this move disrespects the coaching profession. It takes more of a "anybody can do it approach". Lynch has never even coordinated before. I agree. I think this definitely reflects the lack of respect that many have for the coaching profession. Not because someone was fired, but because, as you said, it essentially does seem as if the general public feels anyone can do it. I recently attended the Louisiana state championship games for the first time in a long time, and it is amazing to listen to the fanbases talk about the coaches. |
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Post by silkyice on Dec 30, 2017 14:21:10 GMT -6
Winningest coach in state history. 11 state titles AND just made it to the semi’s. Yep, fire that no good bum! This whole thing reminds me so much of the Nebraska fiasco when they fired Frank Solich back in 2003. He was an Osbourne disciple w/ an "old school" philosophy and all he did was take runner up in the national championship in 2002 & win 9 games in 2003 & fired. Well.....they had hired a new AD the year before & he wanted to "make his mark" so he brought in B. Callahan from the NFL, he has to be better b/c he coached NFL ball right? I think we all know how that went. And...Nebraska football has never been the same. So many parallels, guy is successful & still fired by new admin b/c he had an "old school" approach which just isn't as good as winning w/ a "new school approach" for some reason. New guy coached (1 year, scary) at the "next level" so he must be better right? He's going to be new & dynamic (hate that word as it pertains to football). I see this as a microcosm of the same thing. Should be interesting to see how it plays out. True. Almost. Make it firing Tom Osborne after he finished in the top 4. And replacing by Scott Frost after one year of coaching as RB coach. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 14:31:18 GMT -6
. I feel this move disrespects the coaching profession. It takes more of a "anybody can do it approach". Lynch has never even coordinated before. I agree. I think this definitely reflects the lack of respect that many have for the coaching profession. Not because someone was fired, but because, as you said, it essentially does seem as if the general public feels anyone can do it. I recently attended the Louisiana state championship games for the first time in a long time, and it is amazing to listen to the fanbases talk about the coaches. I don't think they necessarily feel that anybody can do it, but they make the mistake of thinking that "great player=great coach," as if he's going to magically make the kids as athletic as he was by giving the right pregame speeches. And half the time, if the fans/parents know that a guy like that is interested in the job, they will move heaven and earth to install him there, even if it means running off a true legend. There was that school in our area that recently hired a former NFL player with less than a year of coaching experience to be HC and it was a horrible dumpster fire that completely destroyed that program. He caused all sorts of headaches for the district and school admin in just a few months before getting himself suspended 7 games into the season. But he played in the NFL, so he has to know football better than "some dumb good ol' boy" so that automatically made him an amazing coach. When he got suspended from that school (effectively fired, but still not officially so), the parents in other nearby schools started pushing to have their own coaches fired so he could take over those programs. |
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coachood
Sophomore Member
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. -Vince Lombardi
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Post by coachood on Dec 30, 2017 23:51:47 GMT -6
Wow! This to me smacks of the "peanut gallery" running things. Jordan Lynch what....27 years old or so. Former Heisman finalist, former pro baller, coach at NIU.....Lenti an old veer option guy. Let's bring in the new blood & bring MC into the 21st century. Yep, somebody's been listening to pops in the stands. IMO this will be a disaster. Lynch has 1 year as a coach under his belt. I feel this move disrespects the coaching profession. It takes more of a "anybody can do it approach". Lynch has never even coordinated before. As for anything nefarious with Lenti? School has a pretty clean record as far as I can tell. This seems wrong to me. When somebody has been as successful as this guy has w/ no major issues (as far as I can tell) he deserves to go out on his own merits. Plain & simple. JMO. Not to hijack the thread, but I've been out of coaching for a few years and am planning on getting back in(finally finishing my degree) and what you describe seems to be a very broad trend from what I've seen lately. Has it really gotten to the point where "old school" coaches can't even keep a job with legendary histories and deep playoff runs on a consistent basis? |
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Post by s73 on Dec 31, 2017 0:04:58 GMT -6
Wow! This to me smacks of the "peanut gallery" running things. Jordan Lynch what....27 years old or so. Former Heisman finalist, former pro baller, coach at NIU.....Lenti an old veer option guy. Let's bring in the new blood & bring MC into the 21st century. Yep, somebody's been listening to pops in the stands. IMO this will be a disaster. Lynch has 1 year as a coach under his belt. I feel this move disrespects the coaching profession. It takes more of a "anybody can do it approach". Lynch has never even coordinated before. As for anything nefarious with Lenti? School has a pretty clean record as far as I can tell. This seems wrong to me. When somebody has been as successful as this guy has w/ no major issues (as far as I can tell) he deserves to go out on his own merits. Plain & simple. JMO. Not to hijack the thread, but I've been out of coaching for a few years and am planning on getting back in(finally finishing my degree) and what you describe seems to be a very broad trend from what I've seen lately. Has it really gotten to the point where "old school" coaches can't even keep a job with legendary histories and deep playoff runs on a consistent basis? I do feel that since the average joe has more access to Fb knowledge via the internet, etc that they have become more critical of schematics. When I started there was criticism of winning & losing, now their is even criticism of how you win. Obviously there are greater & lesser extents depending on the community but I have heard it more than ever before. My program is the most consistent winning sports program at our school, yet b/c we are a run 1st UC offense I still hear things like so & so isn't coming out b/c we don't throw enough. Or.....why don't you throw more (have heard it after a win in which we scored 35 points). That's about as serious as it gets for me. Manageable for sure. But some programs have much more struggles with it. Several in our area in fact. |
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mc140
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Post by mc140 on Dec 31, 2017 0:11:58 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2017 8:21:52 GMT -6
Funny though, the guys on the radio unwittingly displayed the "anyone can do it" attitude, even while decrying how poorly MC handled the situation and professing their affinity for Coach Lenti. Around the 15 minute mark one of the reporters basically says (paraphrase) : "I love Jordan Lynch. Sure you wish he had more coaching experience, but come on , we are talking HS football and he knows the game" I think this was less a football thing (although all the attention naturally goes to the "old school veer offense", or relatively less success, or students who normally would go to MC now enrolling in GASP...public school) but a power play between the actual person running the school (the president) and the figurehead of the school (the coach) |
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Post by 19delta on Dec 31, 2017 8:59:59 GMT -6
It would be interesting to see how he would fare. While he is obviously a tremendous program builder and coach, I would be really surprised if the program wasn't built in part by doing things that other programs can't/wouldn't do. A quick google search seems to paint Mt. Carmel as the stereotypical "private powerhouse" with recruiting infractions, and stories of lower socio -economic families claiming that their kids were asked to go to the school just to play ball. To be clear, not knocking a man I don't know, or a situation I am not personally involved with, but to compare it to something like JT Curtis at John Curtis I believe is fair. I will state with absolute certainty that Coach Curtis would never had won 25 state championships if he were not the HC of a family owned k-12 private school in a suburb of a metropolitan area with a population of between 1.2 and 1.4 million people centrally located such that players from at least 4 different parishes (counties) attended that often saw players repeat grade levels before this practice was outlawed by rule (yet with loopholes available at earlier ages...) Dan Appino, another Illinois coach, won over 80% of his games and two state titles during a 10-year career at Boylan Catholic in Rockford, Illinois from 2002-2011. In 2012, he took a job at Auburn, a big public school in Rockford. Auburn had only 2 winning seasons since 1980 and was coming off an 0-18 run from 2010-2011. In 2012, Appino took Auburn to the playoffs for the first time EVER (Illinois playoffs started in the mid-1970s). He reached the playoffs 4 of the next 5 years. This included back-to-back appearances in the 7a quarterfinals (2nd largest playoff class in Illinois) in 2015 and 2016. He retired after an 8-2 season this past year. Nobody expected Appino to have the same level of success at Auburn that he had at Boylan. Clearly, there are advantages he enjoyed at a private school in a city that has a long history of racial and socioeconomic problems and he, more than anyone else, would certainly cop to that. Nobody was talking about winning at an 80% clip and winning state titles at Auburn. What people were hoping for was respectability. But to say that he simply exceeded those expectations does not do the turnaround job at Auburn justice. Outside of some of the Chicago public schools, Auburn was, hands down, one of the worst programs in the state year in and year out. And Appino and his staff changed all of that in a very short period of time. He took that program from perennial doormat to a conference title contender. Some guys can coach, period. Appino is one of those guys and I am willing to bet that Lenti is, too. |
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Post by silkyice on Dec 31, 2017 9:01:33 GMT -6
"I love Jordan Lynch. Sure you wish he had more coaching experience, but come on , we are talking HS football and he knows the game" WOW! |
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Post by silkyice on Dec 31, 2017 9:04:10 GMT -6
It would be interesting to see how he would fare. While he is obviously a tremendous program builder and coach, I would be really surprised if the program wasn't built in part by doing things that other programs can't/wouldn't do. A quick google search seems to paint Mt. Carmel as the stereotypical "private powerhouse" with recruiting infractions, and stories of lower socio -economic families claiming that their kids were asked to go to the school just to play ball. To be clear, not knocking a man I don't know, or a situation I am not personally involved with, but to compare it to something like JT Curtis at John Curtis I believe is fair. I will state with absolute certainty that Coach Curtis would never had won 25 state championships if he were not the HC of a family owned k-12 private school in a suburb of a metropolitan area with a population of between 1.2 and 1.4 million people centrally located such that players from at least 4 different parishes (counties) attended that often saw players repeat grade levels before this practice was outlawed by rule (yet with loopholes available at earlier ages...) Dan Appino, another Illinois coach, won over 80% of his games and two state titles during a 10-year career at Boylan Catholic in Rockford, Illinois from 2002-2011. In 2012, he took a job at Auburn, a big public school in Rockford. Auburn had only 2 winning seasons since 1980 and was coming off an 0-18 run from 2010-2011. In 2012, Appino took Auburn to the playoffs for the first time EVER (Illinois playoffs started in the mid-1970s). He reached the playoffs 4 of the next 5 years. This included back-to-back appearances in the 7a quarterfinals (2nd largest playoff class in Illinois) in 2015 and 2016. He retired after an 8-2 season this past year. Nobody expected Appino to have the same level of success at Auburn that he had at Boylan. Clearly, there are advantages he enjoyed at a private school in a city that has a long history of racial and socioeconomic problems and he, more than anyone else, would certainly cop to that. Nobody was talking about winning at an 80% clip and winning state titles at Auburn. What people were hoping for was respectability. But to say that he simply exceeded those expectations does not do the turnaround job at Auburn justice. Outside of some of the Chicago public schools, Auburn was, hands down, one of the worst programs in the state year in and year out. And Appino and his staff changed all of that in a very short period of time. He took that program from perennial doormat to a conference title contender. Some guys can coach, period. Appino is one of those guys and I am willing to bet that Lenti is, too. So what you are saying is that Jordan Lynch would have won state a few times at Auburn?  |
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Post by ogre5530 on Dec 31, 2017 9:05:04 GMT -6
I wonder if letting kids slip away to CPS schools like Phillips and other schools like Loyola has made a difference??? Either way, what a shame! A legend does not deserve to go out like that.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 31, 2017 9:08:25 GMT -6
I agree. I think this definitely reflects the lack of respect that many have for the coaching profession. Not because someone was fired, but because, as you said, it essentially does seem as if the general public feels anyone can do it. I recently attended the Louisiana state championship games for the first time in a long time, and it is amazing to listen to the fanbases talk about the coaches. I don't think they necessarily feel that anybody can do it, but they make the mistake of thinking that "great player=great coach," as if he's going to magically make the kids as athletic as he was by giving the right pregame speeches. And half the time, if the fans/parents know that a guy like that is interested in the job, they will move heaven and earth to install him there, even if it means running off a true legend. There was that school in our area that recently hired a former NFL player with less than a year of coaching experience to be HC and it was a horrible dumpster fire that completely destroyed that program. He caused all sorts of headaches for the district and school admin in just a few months before getting himself suspended 7 games into the season. But he played in the NFL, so he has to know football better than "some dumb good ol' boy" so that automatically made him an amazing coach. When he got suspended from that school (effectively fired, but still not officially so), the parents in other nearby schools started pushing to have their own coaches fired so he could take over those programs. My observation has been that guys who were great players often don't make great coaches. I worked for a guy about 10 years ago who was a former all-State LB and a D3 All American who was just a terrible high school football coach. Pi$$ed away more talent than any coach I have ever seen. He just didn't get it. He couldn't understand why the kids couldn't do the things he did as a player. He couldn't make the connection that the reason he could do those things is because he was an elite athlete and the kids he was coaching weren't. He didn't know how to coach. |
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Post by 19delta on Dec 31, 2017 9:16:10 GMT -6
I wonder if letting kids slip away to CPS schools like Phillips and other schools like Loyola has made a difference??? Either way, what a shame! A legend does not deserve to go out like that. Several articles I have read have said that very thing. The school that gets specifically mentioned is Phillips. In the past, kids who would have went to Phillips would go to Mount Carmel to play football. Now that Phillips has a couple state titles and is churning out FBS and FCS talent, kids are actually transferring FROM Mount Carmel TO Phillips. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2017 9:16:16 GMT -6
It would be interesting to see how he would fare. While he is obviously a tremendous program builder and coach, I would be really surprised if the program wasn't built in part by doing things that other programs can't/wouldn't do. A quick google search seems to paint Mt. Carmel as the stereotypical "private powerhouse" with recruiting infractions, and stories of lower socio -economic families claiming that their kids were asked to go to the school just to play ball. To be clear, not knocking a man I don't know, or a situation I am not personally involved with, but to compare it to something like JT Curtis at John Curtis I believe is fair. I will state with absolute certainty that Coach Curtis would never had won 25 state championships if he were not the HC of a family owned k-12 private school in a suburb of a metropolitan area with a population of between 1.2 and 1.4 million people centrally located such that players from at least 4 different parishes (counties) attended that often saw players repeat grade levels before this practice was outlawed by rule (yet with loopholes available at earlier ages...) Dan Appino, another Illinois coach, won over 80% of his games and two state titles during a 10-year career at Boylan Catholic in Rockford, Illinois from 2002-2011. In 2012, he took a job at Auburn, a big public school in Rockford. Auburn had only 2 winning seasons since 1980 and was coming off an 0-18 run from 2010-2011. In 2012, Appino took Auburn to the playoffs for the first time EVER (Illinois playoffs started in the mid-1970s). He reached the playoffs 4 of the next 5 years. This included back-to-back appearances in the 7a quarterfinals (2nd largest playoff class in Illinois) in 2015 and 2016. He retired after an 8-2 season this past year. Nobody expected Appino to have the same level of success at Auburn that he had at Boylan. Clearly, there are advantages he enjoyed at a private school in a city that has a long history of racial and socioeconomic problems and he, more than anyone else, would certainly cop to that. Nobody was talking about winning at an 80% clip and winning state titles at Auburn. What people were hoping for was respectability. But to say that he simply exceeded those expectations does not do the turnaround job at Auburn justice. Outside of some of the Chicago public schools, Auburn was, hands down, one of the worst programs in the state year in and year out. And Appino and his staff changed all of that in a very short period of time. He took that program from perennial doormat to a conference title contender. Some guys can coach, period. Appino is one of those guys and I am willing to bet that Lenti is, too. I don't doubt that at all. Hence my statement...it would be interesting to see the results. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2017 9:25:14 GMT -6
I wonder if letting kids slip away to CPS schools like Phillips and other schools like Loyola has made a difference??? Either way, what a shame! A legend does not deserve to go out like that. Several articles I have read have said that very thing. The school that gets specifically mentioned is Phillips. In the past, kids who would have went to Phillips would go to Mount Carmel to play football. Now that Phillips has a couple state titles and is churning out FBS and FCS talent, kids are actually transferring FROM Mount Carmel TO Phillips. And Carmel is losing the tuition $$$$ |
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Post by 19delta on Dec 31, 2017 9:50:36 GMT -6
Several articles I have read have said that very thing. The school that gets specifically mentioned is Phillips. In the past, kids who would have went to Phillips would go to Mount Carmel to play football. Now that Phillips has a couple state titles and is churning out FBS and FCS talent, kids are actually transferring FROM Mount Carmel TO Phillips. And Carmel is losing the tuition $$$$ Which might be the biggest issue that hasn’t even been discussed. Many private schools have closed or are in danger of closing. Driscoll Catholic, a Catholic school in the Chicago suburbs that had won 7 consecutive state titles, closed in 2009 due to declining enrollment and lack of funds. It was a “canary in the coal mine” moment, for sure. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2017 9:54:29 GMT -6
And Carmel is losing the tuition $$$$ Which might be the biggest issue that hasn’t even been discussed. Many private schools have closed or are in danger of closing. Driscoll Catholic, a Catholic school in the Chicago suburbs that had won 7 consecutive state titles, closed in 2009 due to declining enrollment and lack of funds. It was a “canary in the coal mine” moment, for sure. The mentioned on that radio broadcast that mc140 posted something about Lenti 's salary having been reduced signficantly over the last few years. Obviously we don't know if that is true or not. Another interesting point--Lenti is still in the "development" dept (fund raising). How hard do you think he is going to work at raising that money now? Edit--- didn't finish my first thought. The point being that this could be further evidence that the individuals trying to run the school view things differently than those running the football program. Of course, if Lynch comes in making $$$$ then that is out the window. Similar thing happened at one of the North Louisiana Power Privates (either Calvary or Evangel) a few years ago where the new head of school basically said in public that they couldnt afford to pay the current salary of the HC because it was just a high school program. |
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Post by wolfden12 on Jan 2, 2018 21:53:33 GMT -6
This is crazy stuff.
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