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Post by chadp56 on Sept 22, 2007 6:22:56 GMT -6
Guys,
Despite never going on one in practice, we are struggling to go on two and three in games. We destroyed many drives this year with false start penalties, and now I'm looking for alternatives that work. How many people think they should just be able to do it, and who says forget it and goes on 1 or something simple all the time? I have to try something different. Thanks!
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Post by fbdoc on Sept 22, 2007 10:20:18 GMT -6
This comes up on the board every once in awhile. Many coaches say just go on one and forget about it. Our cadence is down, set, hut and we use all 3 plus going on two. We will get a kid who jumps from time to time but we work on it in practice every day so it is (for us) one of those things. earlier this summer, a coach shared his scheme of cadence which I believe was something like "Down - RED - GO" where the "concepts" were different. It made sense to me, but we still use our old school way.
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Post by deaux68 on Sept 22, 2007 11:58:53 GMT -6
If you rep it out you can do it. It'll still bite you at time though.
A couple of other points though. If I was in the I and running straight at people I would rarely do it. Since we are in the spread we have to help our tackles out for one thing. We see a lot of jet DE's. Got to keep them honest.
I've ran the veer also where we needed to stay in positive yardage. We went on first sound with them. I guess it comes down to; will it hurt you more to have the DL jumping the count or losing five yards here and there.
We will come up with code words and when we are going to the line the guards and tackles will relay the words back and forth. Like Green for "on two" or something along those lines.
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Post by Mav on Sept 22, 2007 17:35:17 GMT -6
Guys, Despite never going on one in practice, we are struggling to go on two and three in games. We destroyed many drives this year with false start penalties, and now I'm looking for alternatives that work. How many people think they should just be able to do it, and who says forget it and goes on 1 or something simple all the time? I have to try something different. Thanks! We've made going on 2 our default for a several years now. We'll never go later than 2 so the worst we have is a player getting off the ball late. We consider this much better than a 5 yard penalty. btw - to ensure we're getting off quickly, in practice we occasionally have the Center not snap the ball to see who's hesitating.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 23, 2007 10:36:13 GMT -6
If we have a few of these in a game next week everything in practice is on 2- and that's everything, group, skelly, inside 7, and team- in there is a snap it's on 2. Makes a big difference. Mav love your idea on having the center not snap the ball occassionally- simple yet pure genious. LOL, it's simple things you appreciate as a coach
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Post by jraybern on Sept 23, 2007 13:08:02 GMT -6
I have posted this before but here goes. It isn't fool proof but seems to work for our guys. We go on one most of the time (maybe 90%-95%). Whenever we go one something other than 1 our QB - BEFORE CALLING THE PLAY - says something like "OK guys we are going to go on 2 this time to try to get em offsides, do not jump early" Then he calls the play and snap count "Gun Right On Jet Lead Reach Right On TWO on TWO" He draws out the word "two" so the the guys do not just ignore it. We have only had a few offsides penalties all season (4 games thus far). MAYBE this will help.
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Post by highball007 on Sept 23, 2007 15:51:50 GMT -6
What I have done in the past and will continue to do is this.
Series - Play Types - Snap Count
00s (0-9) - Draws, Options - Two
10s (10-19) - Gap Runs, Misdirection Runs - one
20s (20-29) - Zone Runs - One
30s (30-39) - Quick Series Pass - One
40s (40-49) - Screens - One
50s (50-59) - Drop-Back Pass (Half-Roll Left) - One
60s (60-69) - Drop-Back Pass (Half-Roll Right) - One
70s (70-79) - Drop-Back Pass - Two
80s (80-89) - Sprint Pass (Right) - One
90s (90-99) - Sprint Pass (Left) - One
We rep this out in fall camp, we give this sheet to the kids and they seem to have no problem with it, we have actually incorporated the New England Patriots system of double snap counts. If you would like more info on that let me know by email or PM me.
Let me know what all of you think about this!
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clloyd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 210
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Post by clloyd on Sept 26, 2007 18:52:19 GMT -6
Yes, going on two is the answer. We have gone on two all camp and season long and we have not had anyone jump offsides. Believe it or not the only time we jumped was when we put in a no huddle on one and the next play we jumped. We quickly changed the no huddle to on two and we have had no problems.
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Post by bulldogoption on Sept 26, 2007 19:54:52 GMT -6
We run a lot of motion and our cadence is dictated by the motion. However we have a good mix of plays so our cadence is a mix of first sound, on one and on two. We have our share of penalties though.
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Post by superpower on Sept 26, 2007 20:21:03 GMT -6
For a team that is having trouble, keep it simple and go on one until they prove that they can handle that consistently. Remember, it is our job as coaches to put the kids in positions to be successful. If they can't handle anything other than one, then go on one and let them be successful.
Many years ago when Jerry Burns was the off. coord. of the Minnesota Vikings, they always went on one in the red zone to avoid false starts. About mid-way through the season, one of the OL told him, "Coach, the defense knows that we always go on one." To which Burns replied, "So do we." His point was that he didn't care if the defense knew the snap count so long as his own players knew it.
Remember, first eliminate losing and then find a way to win! (Compliments of Coach Hugh Wyatt)
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Post by silkyice on Sept 27, 2007 13:52:30 GMT -6
I don't think there is a wrong way or a best way.
But, I do think if it is a problem for you: only go on ONE! (or always go on two-just one count)
Then use your no play at the start of every quarter or when you need it or whatever.
The next thing is run plays where it is good for the other team to jump the count and penetrate. Every offense has them: trap, speed option, veer, quick screens!
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Post by eickst on Sept 27, 2007 15:23:12 GMT -6
Snap count? What's that....?
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Post by coachnorm on Sept 28, 2007 7:30:13 GMT -6
I coached at a place for several years where the only snap count we used was "Go". We would sprint out of the huddle, get set, the QB would put his hands up under the center and say "Go".
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Post by gacoach on Sept 28, 2007 8:50:00 GMT -6
The players have developed words that they say at the LOS to help them remember the snap count. For example they may say "Tuesday....Tuesday" for going on 2.
I don't think we've jumped offsides once this year.
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Post by wingt74 on Sept 28, 2007 9:07:53 GMT -6
Had an easy but very effective fix. See, the problem is, between breaking the huddle running to the LOS, getting set, thinking of their responsibility...players forget, and just go on instinct. So, I use colors to essentially remind players what the cadence is. Green Red Black NOT on 1, on 2, on 3. Then, you have a completely seperate cadence system for each color. Example. Black (Your standard on 1) Down Black 11 Black 11 Hit (play begins) On Green Down Green 22 Green 22 (Play begins) on Red Down Red 12 Red 12 GO Black 11 Black 11 HIT there is more to it, but I really don't want to make it ALL public You should get the idea
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Post by hawkfan on Sept 28, 2007 10:01:03 GMT -6
I coached at a place for several years where the only snap count we used was "Go". We would sprint out of the huddle, get set, the QB would put his hands up under the center and say "Go". We do something similar to this now. We run to the line, and we're flying off the ball (well, we're supposed to be ) on "Set". When we go "on 1", we're about 85% successful in getting a free 5 yards. It really works well on 4th and less than 5, when you don't even have to run a play.
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Post by dawgdef on Sept 28, 2007 10:42:33 GMT -6
We move when the ball moves. Pretty simple for us, but maybe thats why I coach defense!
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Post by eickst on Sept 28, 2007 14:40:47 GMT -6
We move when the ball moves. Pretty simple for us, but maybe thats why I coach defense!
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Post by joebradshaw on Sept 29, 2007 21:16:19 GMT -6
One thing I've seen done in the past is a "freeze" play with a live word. After the live word the line goes on the next sound. The QB calls "FREEZE 30 Trap" in the huddle. The QB will come up and go through his cadence, "Down, set, HIT, HIT, HIT...." The lines job is to freeze until a live word, like "RED" is called. Once RED is called the line knows the next sound is live.
I've also seen it where the QB can just go through his cadence "Down, set, HIT, HIT, HIT....." and once he restarts the cadence it's on one.
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Post by coachjim on Sept 30, 2007 3:33:35 GMT -6
"I coached at a place for several years where the only snap count we used was "Go". We would sprint out of the huddle, get set, the QB would put his hands up under the center and say "Go". "
Snap counts get you in trouble and in practice, you waste more time disciplining them for going off sides, probably, than any other kind of screw up. I like Norm's suggestion and will take that one step further.
Go... Setgo. No one ever goes on GO (except the motion guy) We never false start. Ever. Our QB shouts GO, but quietly says Setgo. Because it is the only cadence we use to help with our motion timing, the kids on the line don't need to hear the words, they only need to know that there is one split second after go and then they go. We also use the Freeze tactic only don't use the word Freeze. It gives too much away. We use... our team name or something and then simply do the Go.... Setgo again.
Simple, removes frustration and fups during practice, and is legal. I must admit, it doesn't draw defenders off sides like I thought it would but it also isn't something the D keys off of either, unlike I thought, because they very rarely even hear it. All they hear is GO, see motion, and shortly after, everyone brings it. I don't think anything works better, even going on one, which they will eventually key off of. Hope that helps. Hope the team i'm playing this morning isn't reading this, but regardless, it won't help. Even when they know what it is on D, it doesn't matter. For college +, well... I can't answer that. This is HS and youth level. In college, I think you should be less simplified and have to. But that's not something I could advise on.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 30, 2007 7:32:03 GMT -6
In HS we had a team full of DI recruits including Rave Rimington. and 3 other DI O-Linemen> The coach lost most of his hair that year and wasted so much practice time trying to get us to go on 2. By the third week and a 1-1-1 start we went to going on 1 every time. We won out. Moral of the story: Even with good O-linemen kids still jump with varied counts and coaches waste lots of valuable practice time on this.
On my youth teams out count is shift, down, ready, set go. We always go on go and we use other words as landmarks for motion. If anyone is jumping our count, we run a "no play" , take our 5 yards and move on. Saves so much practice time and our kids play aggressively.
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Post by Coach Huey on Sept 30, 2007 13:52:16 GMT -6
just use "go" or whatever.... where you get the "variance" is WHEN the qb says go ....
sometimes, he says go immediately after getting under center. other times, he gets under center and waits 2 counts then says go, etc....
don't put so much thought into, really....
for me, our basic cadence is "after move" ... meaning the first word by the qb of EVERY cadence is "move" (which, if we had a shift, etc. then it takes place then)... ball is snapped on next word out of his mouth (typically a color or go or hit -- doesn't matter). he just varies when he STARTS the cadence ...
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