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Post by 3rdandlong on Nov 27, 2017 11:13:46 GMT -6
This is just for discussion, not something that is actually in the works. But what would you guys think about having an open division, national playoff to have an actual national champion in high school as opposed to the mythical ones.
This would give teams that want the big spotlight just that and would give others an actual opportunity to compete for a state championship. For example, in California no one is competing with Mater Dei, St. John Bosco, or Corona Centennial in Southern California. Meanwhile in Northern California, no one is going to compete with De La Salle. There's 4 teams right there that can be put in a 32 team national playoff. Bishop Gorman, IMG, and many others can be in this category as well. Thoughts?
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193 
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Post by pistola on Nov 27, 2017 11:16:46 GMT -6
you wouldn't be able to get any of the public schools from TX I wouldn't imagine
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Post by coachddwebb on Nov 27, 2017 11:39:44 GMT -6
Would this be open to any school that wanted to compete or would it be invite only? I say have it open to any team, then like they do in soccer in Europe if you don't have at least a 500 record at the end you get removed and then a state champion is invite up next season.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 27, 2017 12:01:26 GMT -6
We've had some serious dynasties in this state but I doubt that any of them could compete against the top 100 in the country, much less the top 32.
A dominant program in Montana sends half of it's starters to NAIA schools and some studs to the FCS. A dominant program in Texas sends its kids to the SEC.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Nov 27, 2017 12:27:40 GMT -6
Seems like Ohio, California and Florida would make up the lion's share of the teams. calpreps.com/2017/ratings/National_all25.htmI think it would be interesting to see a true national champion but as you said, allowing teams to compete for a state championship would also be fun to watch. At this point there are some very good programs in California that won't even sniff it as long as MD, SJB and Centennial are around. |
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Post by coachg125 on Nov 27, 2017 13:53:44 GMT -6
Not going to lie, I've had this exact thought 100 times over the years. Would love to make it work but too many roadblocks stand in the way of it.
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 27, 2017 14:21:03 GMT -6
$$$
Concussions
Number of Games
Teams have to play in their own state playoff (if they have one... CA has section champions)
Time
$$$
$$$
$$$
$$$
Did I mention $$$?
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Post by blb on Nov 27, 2017 16:09:56 GMT -6
What would be the purpose of this?
How would it in any way benefit the thousands of coaches-kids who play-coach HS football?
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Post by s73 on Nov 27, 2017 17:13:47 GMT -6
What would be the purpose of this? How would it in any way benefit the thousands of coaches-kids who play-coach HS football? It's cool to imagine it I suppose but the reality is even if you did one the champion would still be mythical b/c you could never include enough teams to say that everyone who was deserving got a fair shot. Besides, and I'm only speaking for myself here, I'm still working on trying to become more recognized in my state, national isn't even on the radar right now. Just saying. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Nov 27, 2017 17:19:50 GMT -6
$$$ Concussions Number of Games Teams have to play in their own state playoff (if they have one... CA has section champions) Time $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ Did I mention $$$? It wouldn't effect the number of games. My thought is that it would be in lieu of the regular state championship. So your Mater Dei's, De La Salle's, IMG's, and Bishop Gorman's of the world would not play in their regular state or sectional championship playoff. And when it comes to money, most of these top teams are private schools who give their top athletes free tuition, sooo.... I think this would give the "exposure" these schools and athletes desperately want and it would also give schools who don't play the recruiting game a chance to win a championship. |
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Post by 54695469 on Nov 27, 2017 17:21:19 GMT -6
Might play the championship game around Easter.
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Post by blb on Nov 27, 2017 17:37:52 GMT -6
It wouldn't effect the number of games. My thought is that it would be in lieu of the regular state championship. So your Mater Dei's, De La Salle's, IMG's, and Bishop Gorman's of the world would not play in their regular state or sectional championship playoff. And when it comes to money, most of these top teams are private schools who give their top athletes free tuition, sooo.... I think this would give the "exposure" these schools and athletes desperately want and it would also give schools who don't play the recruiting game a chance to win a championship.
You think athletes at the schools you named don't get "exposure"?
How could schools "who don't play the recruiting game" have a chance to win a championship against them?
The vast majority of schools in our state don't have a prayer of winning a football state championship, much less a national one.
And states aren't going to give up their playoffs much less championship games for something like this.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 27, 2017 17:47:07 GMT -6
$$$ Concussions Number of Games Teams have to play in their own state playoff (if they have one... CA has section champions) Time $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ Did I mention $$$? It wouldn't effect the number of games. My thought is that it would be in lieu of the regular state championship. So your Mater Dei's, De La Salle's, IMG's, and Bishop Gorman's of the world would not play in their regular state or sectional championship playoff. And when it comes to money, most of these top teams are private schools who give their top athletes free tuition, sooo.... I think this would give the "exposure" these schools and athletes desperately want and it would also give schools who don't play the recruiting game a chance to win a championship. How do those schools need more exposure? I would bet about ever high school coach in the country knows about them and every D1 recruiting coordinator does as well. Wasn’t there a state champions showcase last year where some teams played after their state title games in FL or something. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Nov 27, 2017 18:12:46 GMT -6
It wouldn't effect the number of games. My thought is that it would be in lieu of the regular state championship. So your Mater Dei's, De La Salle's, IMG's, and Bishop Gorman's of the world would not play in their regular state or sectional championship playoff. And when it comes to money, most of these top teams are private schools who give their top athletes free tuition, sooo.... I think this would give the "exposure" these schools and athletes desperately want and it would also give schools who don't play the recruiting game a chance to win a championship.
You think athletes at the schools you named don't get "exposure"?
How could schools "who don't play the recruiting game" have a chance to win a championship against them?
The vast majority of schools in our state don't have a prayer of winning a football state championship, much less a national one.
And states aren't going to give up their playoffs much less championship games for something like this.
The teams who don't play the recruiting game won't play against them. The state/sectional championships won't have those teams involved. |
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Post by blb on Nov 27, 2017 18:17:31 GMT -6
3rdandlong Why do you think we NEED a national HS football champion?
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Post by 3rdandlong on Nov 27, 2017 18:40:44 GMT -6
I don't. Just something that i thought I'd throw out there after I heard some people talking about the "what if." If you look at my original post, I was simply posing a question and gave 1 reason as to why it might not be a terrible idea.
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Nov 28, 2017 9:38:44 GMT -6
I don't. Just something that i thought I'd throw out there after I heard some people talking about the "what if." If you look at my original post, I was simply posing a question and gave 1 reason as to why it might not be a terrible idea. seems like people just want to argue lol would it be awesome.. yeah I would watch the best teams from around the country no doubt about it. way to many roadblocks and obstacles to ever see it through though |
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Post by pistolwhipped on Nov 28, 2017 13:32:42 GMT -6
Not wanting to do the work, how many of the Top Ten on CalPreps are true Public schools?
Ben Davis is massive but a public in Indiana and has a team that I'd put up against any.
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Post by fshamrock on Nov 28, 2017 14:01:45 GMT -6
It'd be cool for the coaches bragging rights...everybody would be fired up when the big texas schools got beat, because of all the "friday night lights" penis envy
I could see Texas going all-in on this thing, it would only take a couple of years of losing to some school in California or Ohio before the state legislature would make damn sure they all the best players were on one team like they do over there in "limp-wristed liberal" California. "Allen-Aledo-Lake Travis-Katy Consolidated High School" would have 9000 students, classes would include Football, Gun-cleaning, American History (mostly focused on Texas) World history (again..Texas), and Ancient Philosophy (of Bum Phillips)
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 28, 2017 14:07:57 GMT -6
Well, if truth be told; I know a guy who knows some guys and something like this was actually bandied around about 8-10 years ago. Money isn't the biggest hurdle. The problem is getting the teams/state associations to commit.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 28, 2017 21:06:40 GMT -6
This is just for discussion, not something that is actually in the works. But what would you guys think about having an open division, national playoff to have an actual national champion in high school as opposed to the mythical ones. This would give teams that want the big spotlight just that and would give others an actual opportunity to compete for a state championship. For example, in California no one is competing with Mater Dei, St. John Bosco, or Corona Centennial in Southern California. Meanwhile in Northern California, no one is going to compete with De La Salle. There's 4 teams right there that can be put in a 32 team national playoff. Bishop Gorman, IMG, and many others can be in this category as well. Thoughts? Hate it. I think it strays even further away from what I believe HS football should be. 32 teams? So somebody is travelling nationally for 5 weeks? I do understand what you are getting at. That essentially there are teams across the country that operate on a different level than their local opponents, and that kind of sucks. But to try and push those teams even further, well I think that is a bad idea. |
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Nov 28, 2017 23:38:31 GMT -6
I like HS football the way it is. If I wanted to watch something like this I'd watch the NFL
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 29, 2017 6:53:41 GMT -6
Well, if truth be told; I know a guy who knows some guys and something like this was actually bandied around about 8-10 years ago. Money isn't the biggest hurdle. The problem is getting the teams/state associations to commit. I don't know anything about a playoff, but I do remember a similar discussion that several Evangel Chrisitian (Louisiana) fans were having on message boards about trying to start a National "league" of sorts. Were talking about the games being on ESPN ..blah blah. All that talk died down when they started to think it through, and realized that much like big boy college football, some team is coming in last in the league despite a huge budget, great facilities, and tons of investment. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 29, 2017 7:22:04 GMT -6
Well, if truth be told; I know a guy who knows some guys and something like this was actually bandied around about 8-10 years ago. Money isn't the biggest hurdle. The problem is getting the teams/state associations to commit. I don't know anything about a playoff, but I do remember a similar discussion that several Evangel Chrisitian (Louisiana) fans were having on message boards about trying to start a National "league" of sorts. Were talking about the games being on ESPN ..blah blah. All that talk died down when they started to think it through, and realized that much like big boy college football, some team is coming in last in the league despite a huge budget, great facilities, and tons of investment. This was from the people that put the high school kickoff games together that are broadcast on ESPN. Basically the idea wasn't a national playoff, but a +1 game. Get the State Champ from Florida play the State Champ from Georgia, etc... |
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Post by vanden48 on Nov 29, 2017 11:10:35 GMT -6
It'd be cool for the coaches bragging rights...everybody would be fired up when the big texas schools got beat, because of all the "friday night lights" penis envy I could see Texas going all-in on this thing, it would only take a couple of years of losing to some school in California or Ohio before the state legislature would make damn sure they all the best players were on one team like they do over there in "limp-wristed liberal" California. "Allen-Aledo-Lake Travis-Katy Consolidated High School" would have 9000 students, classes would include Football, Gun-cleaning, American History (mostly focused on Texas) World history (again..Texas), and Ancient Philosophy (of Bum Phillips) Ummmm...How do I get a job at that school??? Hey Texas does high school football the way it should be done. |
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Post by wingtol on Nov 29, 2017 12:24:22 GMT -6
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Post by vanden48 on Nov 30, 2017 9:23:36 GMT -6
OK I'll play along:
8 Regions, 8 teams from each region:
West:AK, WA, OR, ID, CA, HI
Central: ND, MN, SD, IA, NE, CO, MT, WY, UT, NV, AZ
South Central: KS, OK, NM, TX, MO
Midwest: WI, MI, IL, IN, OH, PA
South: KY, AR, LA, MS, AL
Southeast: TN, GA, FL, SC
Atlantic: NC, VA, WV, MD, DE, NJ
East: ME, VT, NY, CT, NH, RI, MA
32 team Bracket, Top Left West would play Central, Bottom left South Central would play Midwest. Top Right South would play Southeast, Bottom Right East would play Atlantic.
Bracket would look like this:
1w: Mater Dei (CA) 1s: North Little Rock (AR)
vs vs
4c: Chandler (AZ) 4se: Brentwood Academy (TN)
2c: Bishop Gorman (NV) 2se: American Heritage (FL)
vs vs
3w: St. Louis (HI) 3s: University Lab (LA)
2w: St. John Bosco (CA) 2s: Trinity (KY)
vs vs
3c: East (UT) 3se: South Pointe (SC)
4w: Centennial (CA) 4s: Hoover (AL)
vs vs
1c: Bingham (UT) 1se: IMG (FL)
1sc: Christian Brothers (MO) 1e: Troy (NY)
vs vs
4mw: Lincoln-way East (IL) 4a: Mallard Creek (NC)
2mw: Archbishop Hoban (OH) 2a: Bergen Catholic (NJ)
vs vs
3sc: Allen (TX) 3e: Everett (MA)
2sc: Bishop Miege (KS) 2e: Darien (CT)
vs vs
3mw: Pine-Richland (PA) 3a: St. John's (MD)
1mw: Ben Davis (IN) 1a: St. Frances Academy (MD)
vs vs
4sc: Union (OK) 4e: Choate (CT)
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Post by coachbdud on Nov 30, 2017 10:04:34 GMT -6
i think it is stupid, no offense
the season is already TOO LONG
there is no longer an off season, football has become year round for every team that is any good here
this would make the season go on to january or february lol
I think we push to much as coaches (myself included)
as the kids would say, " we be doin the most"
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Post by fantom on Nov 30, 2017 20:34:42 GMT -6
I find the preoccupation with crowning a definitive champion annoying. When I played in the late sixties in PA there was no state championship. The closest was the WPIAL and the Eastern Conference, a team from "Da Valley" (Scranton area) vs one from "Down Da Line" (Mt. Carmel/Berwick area). We played that game in December, after teams who had a Thanksgiving game (We didn't" played. Then we started basketball season.
That was fine with us. A 6-3 record was considered a good year. There was no "Second place is the first loser". There's something to be said about playing games just for the sake of playing games.
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