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Post by runthei on Nov 2, 2017 9:08:38 GMT -6
I've spoken with a couple of programs around my area over the last year that have been traditionally rotten begin to hit a little bit of a stride as far as winning goes and they attribute it to the fact that they're willing to sacrifice days of off-season work to supplement it with character development.
How much, if any, do you invest in it? I've gotten a couple of different resources and I really like the curriculum of them. The issue I can see with it is that you as a coach has to believe in pursuing it and continuing with it even when there doesn't seem to be progress.
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Post by jared10227 on Nov 2, 2017 9:20:50 GMT -6
Coach,
Do you minds sharing the curriculum of the resources you currently have? I am about to buy "You Can Build Championship Culture: Coaches Complete Guide to Everything Off the Field," and would love to have someone to bounce ideas off of and share resources with.
During the off-season, we do a one hour block every Tuesday where we have a life skills training session. Kids will learn to tie a tie, change a tire (you would be surprised how many do not know this), sew a button on their shirt, etc... We also have an hour devoted every Thursday to character development. Now these things we only do with the Varsity group (we only have the JV for an hour each day), but I would love to see us expand that in the future.
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Post by gccwolverine on Nov 2, 2017 9:39:25 GMT -6
Coach, Do you minds sharing the curriculum of the resources you currently have? I am about to buy "You Can Build Championship Culture: Coaches Complete Guide to Everything Off the Field," and would love to have someone to bounce ideas off of and share resources with. During the off-season, we do a one hour block every Tuesday where we have a life skills training session. Kids will learn to tie a tie, change a tire (you would be surprised how many do not know this), sew a button on their shirt, etc... We also have an hour devoted every Thursday to character development. Now these things we only do with the Varsity group (we only have the JV for an hour each day), but I would love to see us expand that in the future. Check out "A football Journey" |
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Post by wingtol on Nov 2, 2017 9:42:33 GMT -6
coachcharacter.com/Here is what we use. Highly recommended. New theme every season with a character word of the week great power points to go along with weekly awards. Is run by a guy with a deep family background in coaching, several D1 football coaches in the family, so it's built with athletes and coaches in mind.
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 2, 2017 10:04:34 GMT -6
coachcharacter.com/Here is what we use. Highly recommended. New theme every season with a character word of the week great power points to go along with weekly awards. Is run by a guy with a deep family background in coaching, several D1 football coaches in the family, so it's built with athletes and coaches in mind. I used the same program and have the same positive things to say about it. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 2, 2017 10:36:52 GMT -6
Honestly, none.
Nothing against those that do. Some of it just seems contrived and kids (17 year old boys) see through that BS. The coach before me was the KING at that stuff. Bible versus (private school), 6 am outdoor training in January, crucible, us vs them, etc. When I came, kids made fun of most of it.
Now, don't get me wrong. That coach was a good coach. Great man. Great example and role model. The kids liked him.
I had kids remark after we won state that "no way in hell" would they have won state with the other guy. They would have been reciting Bible verses. And these were great young men. But we are football coaches!
Some of that stuff just seems non-genuine, contrived, shoved down their throats, over the top.
I think that you can lose real teaching moments when everything is constantly a teaching a moment and everything is about character.
Do I think character development is important? Absolutely.
As a matter of fact, I think that coaching is my ministry. This is football. There are a million teachable moments without it having to be one. I want to be a role model. Best way to do that: show up, work hard, be organized, love the kids, don't quit, be tough, be positive, teach them football, help them in the classroom, etc. I don't need a program to be that, teach that, or show that.
Instead of Bible verses at practice, etc. We hold FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) breakfasts twice a month. We usually have 40-80 kids there of all ages. Our high school has 145 kids. I have also held FCA at public schools.
I do know that Character education and Christian beliefs are not one in the same (pretty close in the South though LOL). I know you can have one without the other. I was just giving you details about my situation.
While I believe character development is important, the character programs just aren't for me.
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Post by **** on Nov 2, 2017 10:41:55 GMT -6
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Post by runthei on Nov 2, 2017 12:04:32 GMT -6
That's one of the curriculums I have my hands on. I like it. |
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Post by runthei on Nov 2, 2017 12:09:14 GMT -6
Honestly, none. Nothing against those that do. Some of it just seems contrived and kids (17 year old boys) see through that BS. The coach before me was the KING at that stuff. Bible versus (private school), 6 am outdoor training in January, crucible, us vs them, etc. When I came, kids made fun of most of it. Now, don't get me wrong. That coach was a good coach. Great man. Great example and role model. The kids liked him. I had kids remark after we won state that "no way in hell" would they have won state with the other guy. They would have been reciting Bible verses. And these were great young men. But we are football coaches! Some of that stuff just seems non-genuine, contrived, shoved down their throats, over the top. I think that you can lose real teaching moments when everything is constantly a teaching a moment and everything is about character. Do I think character development is important? Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think that coaching is my ministry. This is football. There are a million teachable moments without it having to be one. I want to be a role model. Best way to do that: show up, work hard, be organized, love the kids, don't quit, be tough, be positive, teach them football, help them in the classroom, etc. I don't need a program to be that, teach that, or show that. Instead of Bible verses at practice, etc. We hold FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) breakfasts twice a month. We usually have 40-80 kids there of all ages. Our high school has 145 kids. I have also held FCA at public schools. I do know that Character education and Christian beliefs are not one in the same (pretty close in the South though LOL). I know you can have one without the other. I was just giving you details about my situation. While I believe character development is important, the character programs just aren't for me. I see where you're coming from on that and for me some of it is bells and whistles and not every kid is going to buy into it. I'm also not naive enough to think that just by doing a character curriculum will completely change a place that character and integrity isn't instilled at home. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 2, 2017 13:11:23 GMT -6
Honestly, none. Nothing against those that do. Some of it just seems contrived and kids (17 year old boys) see through that BS. The coach before me was the KING at that stuff. Bible versus (private school), 6 am outdoor training in January, crucible, us vs them, etc. When I came, kids made fun of most of it. Now, don't get me wrong. That coach was a good coach. Great man. Great example and role model. The kids liked him. I had kids remark after we won state that "no way in hell" would they have won state with the other guy. They would have been reciting Bible verses. And these were great young men. But we are football coaches! Some of that stuff just seems non-genuine, contrived, shoved down their throats, over the top. I think that you can lose real teaching moments when everything is constantly a teaching a moment and everything is about character. Do I think character development is important? Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think that coaching is my ministry. This is football. There are a million teachable moments without it having to be one. I want to be a role model. Best way to do that: show up, work hard, be organized, love the kids, don't quit, be tough, be positive, teach them football, help them in the classroom, etc. I don't need a program to be that, teach that, or show that. Instead of Bible verses at practice, etc. We hold FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) breakfasts twice a month. We usually have 40-80 kids there of all ages. Our high school has 145 kids. I have also held FCA at public schools. I do know that Character education and Christian beliefs are not one in the same (pretty close in the South though LOL). I know you can have one without the other. I was just giving you details about my situation. While I believe character development is important, the character programs just aren't for me. I see where you're coming from on that and for me some of it is bells and whistles and not every kid is going to buy into it. I'm also not naive enough to think that just by doing a character curriculum will completely change a place that character and integrity isn't instilled at home. Great old coaches instilled more character than I can ever hope to. I don't think any of them had a character program. Except that hard work and being unselfish builds character. My high school coach didn't have a character program but yet 100 former players from all over the USA came back to see him and honor him a few months before his death. Again, nothing wrong with a character program. Absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to build character. Just not my way. |
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Post by fshamrock on Nov 2, 2017 13:52:35 GMT -6
Honestly, none. Nothing against those that do. Some of it just seems contrived and kids (17 year old boys) see through that BS. The coach before me was the KING at that stuff. Bible versus (private school), 6 am outdoor training in January, crucible, us vs them, etc. When I came, kids made fun of most of it. Now, don't get me wrong. That coach was a good coach. Great man. Great example and role model. The kids liked him. I had kids remark after we won state that "no way in hell" would they have won state with the other guy. They would have been reciting Bible verses. And these were great young men. But we are football coaches! Some of that stuff just seems non-genuine, contrived, shoved down their throats, over the top. I think that you can lose real teaching moments when everything is constantly a teaching a moment and everything is about character. Do I think character development is important? Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think that coaching is my ministry. This is football. There are a million teachable moments without it having to be one. I want to be a role model. Best way to do that: show up, work hard, be organized, love the kids, don't quit, be tough, be positive, teach them football, help them in the classroom, etc. I don't need a program to be that, teach that, or show that. Instead of Bible verses at practice, etc. We hold FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) breakfasts twice a month. We usually have 40-80 kids there of all ages. Our high school has 145 kids. I have also held FCA at public schools. I do know that Character education and Christian beliefs are not one in the same (pretty close in the South though LOL). I know you can have one without the other. I was just giving you details about my situation. While I believe character development is important, the character programs just aren't for me. not that anybody cares, but this mirrors my thoughts exactly I worry sometimes if maybe we are biting off more than we can chew when we attempt to directly and publicly develop character in these young people, it suggests a level of ownership over their lives and decisions that I'm not sure we need to be overly eager to embrace. who are we to define what character is or isn't? what is looks like and what it shouldn't? I doubt there are any of us who would say that we have the answers to living a good life all figured out, most of us are still working our way through it the same as these kids, we are just a little bit smarter due to simple fact that we've lived a little bit longer. I'm not saying we shouldn't be talking to these kids about their lives, or giving them advice when they ask for it, far from it..this is the most impactful part of the job, but I think we need to caveat these things by making sure kids understand that we are just regular people like them, capable of making stupid mistakes and sometimes not learning from them. While making doubly sure they understand that the secrets to happy and fulfilled existence are tough to boil down onto a couple of power point slides delivered a few times a week, even if we knew what they were. The most important life lesson young people learn they figure out for themselves, I like to think that playing football helps by exposing them to the benefits of virtues like selflessness and hard work, allowing them to come to understand their benefits in a tangible way. So I doubt the efficacy of these programs in general, but that part doesn't really matter, they probably don't do any harm necessarily. The part that gives me pause is the way they seem to be embraced by the absolute wrong type of people. Make no bones about it, there are guys out there who love these character programs because it gives them a giant stiffy to feel like they are building the lives of these poor impressionable young folks. It's not about the kids at all....it's about some guy with a giant inferiority complex trying to build a cult following around himself. These guys aren't that hard to find, they are all over the twitter as #lifechangers best of luck to you coach in your search for a program....just my 2 cents but I think your far better off when you and your staff just coach football, build relationships with your players, and let the rest take care of itself, it's been a good system that has helped a lot of kids for a long time. |
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Post by wingtol on Nov 2, 2017 18:53:54 GMT -6
Just wondering for the guys who don't use character stuff, what do you think these programs entail? Sometimes I feel like guys who don't use them think they are some kind of cult like indoctrination that goes on with the kids. It's an honest question not trying to be a jack ass. Just curious to see what people's impressions of them are.
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Post by 54695469 on Nov 2, 2017 21:59:49 GMT -6
Here we go... Off-season must be just around the corner. Time for character and culture changing.
Just coach. When you do that you should take care of all that character stuff.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 3, 2017 3:37:22 GMT -6
Here we go... Off-season must be just around the corner. Time for character and culture changing. Just coach. When you do that you should take care of all that character stuff. Coach, we get it. You aren't into the character and culture stuff. You knock it on here every chance that you get. It's ok to not be into it. Let those who are into it be into it. Different strokes for different strokes and such. For the most part I'm with you, but think that some of these ideas can help a toxic program. |
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Post by runthei on Nov 3, 2017 4:05:53 GMT -6
I completely understand where you guys that are "just coach" are coming from. I would rather "just coach" than have to deal with the extra stuff. And, yes, off season is right around the corner.
I'm not interested in doing character development curriculum to be the look at me guy, or touchy feely, or whatever connotation you have about the people who use the stuff. What I see is a ton of kids without a father making decisions that affect their lives outside of football. Yes, I can coach them hard, love on them, build relationships with them, etc...the reason I'm looking into it is to see if it's worth investing that instead of all off season time to the weight room.
I'm glad that you guys that can "just coach", "just coach", but there's a large population of coaches that don't have that luxury that have to deal with mentally weak individuals who think being coached is being criticized.
Bottom line I'm trying to look under every stone I can possibly look under to make sure the young men that leave me are going to better society. I know I can do that through "just coaching" but I've only been at one school where "just coaching" was enough to get through to them.
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 3, 2017 4:13:13 GMT -6
I think it is more about teaching leadership skills than character. I think it is like a lot of things. Some of the kids will "get it" naturally. Some have to be taught a skill or two. Some will never get it. Some you can talk until you are blue in the face about what it means to be a leader but they will still make bad decisions. I think we offered it because there was need and I do think it made a difference in the program I was in at the time.
I do think the word "culture" gets tossed around way too much in 2017. What's your culture? What are you doing for culture in your program? I wonder if the "culture/leadership/character" curricula are analogous to vitamins and supplements. You have to have the foundation of hard work, leadership from the top down, support at home etc. That like "eating right" to diet. Then adding in the off-season teaching in the classroom is like adding in the supplements.
I believe one of the best teachers of character in the school is the weight room.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 3, 2017 7:04:17 GMT -6
I think some guys feel that character programs are some like infomercial Tony Robins televangelist type crap. The one we use is set up to be short burst of information for the players. We hit em with a word of the week from our theme for the year. For example Selfless, I will give more than, I take I will dare to put others first, I will be compassionate, I will consider others more than myself. Try and give them the meanings of these words they heard but probably have no idea what they mean. Hit em with some knowledge and hope they model it a bit. Of course we still work hard preach to them the benefits of it and all but ya gotta supplement all that a bit. Especially when kids are going home and seeing mom and dad collecting a check every month and sitting on their asses all day. Or watch adults make un-adult decisions every day. Just trying to give our kids a bit more in their lives. We know we aren't changing the world but hell 5 mins a week and modeling behavior for them probably isn't gonna hurt.
I also find it funny how you get the " When I played my coaches just coached and were good role models" well times change hell there is a what 4-5 page thread on kids not standing for the National Anthem on here. Bet those coaches didn't worry about that 30 years ago. Guys are always looking to improve their X and O and fundamentals and technique, not changing what you do and keeping up with the times is a sin to football coaches! But then people revert back to 30 years ago my coaches just coached. Sure if you heard someone say we haven't changed our O or D in 30 years most guys would roll their eyes at you now.
You can't let the game pass you by but you also better be careful you don't let the kids pass you by as well.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 3, 2017 8:30:16 GMT -6
I completely understand where you guys that are "just coach" are coming from. I would rather "just coach" than have to deal with the extra stuff. And, yes, off season is right around the corner. I'm not interested in doing character development curriculum to be the look at me guy, or touchy feely, or whatever connotation you have about the people who use the stuff. What I see is a ton of kids without a father making decisions that affect their lives outside of football. Yes, I can coach them hard, love on them, build relationships with them, etc...the reason I'm looking into it is to see if it's worth investing that instead of all off season time to the weight room. I'm glad that you guys that can "just coach", "just coach", but there's a large population of coaches that don't have that luxury that have to deal with mentally weak individuals who think being coached is being criticized. Bottom line I'm trying to look under every stone I can possibly look under to make sure the young men that leave me are going to better society. I know I can do that through "just coaching" but I've only been at one school where "just coaching" was enough to get through to them. I think you have misunderstood and missed the point. I am not saying "just coach" and don't try and make them better people. I am saying, by "just coaching", teaching moments will naturally occur. And it is much more important to be a good role model and demonstrate character than using someone else's character building program. Oh, and get them weight room over character building. Weight room can teach character also. But no problem with having a 5 minute character session or theme built into weights. More to come on another post. |
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Post by runthei on Nov 3, 2017 8:41:42 GMT -6
I haven't missed your point. I'm from the school of thought that the weightroom teaches you character, integrity, work-ethic and humility. I have a group that I'm working with right now that sees being coached and pushed as a negative rather than embracing it. In that case why not try to reach them in a different way? I know the obvious answer is "cut them loose" but I'm not in a position to do so. The best I can do try and make chicken salad or find another place to coach. Until I'm able to possibly find another place to go I am where I am.
My personal philosophy is get them into the weightroom, grind 'em, love 'em, go to their other sports, get them together in the off-season outside of football and the weightroom, and create a thicker than thieves mentality especially with your position group. I've had some very successful groups that bought in. With this group of kids it doesn't. I honestly don't think character curriculum will either.
I'm just trying to see if there's a program out there that has genuinely benefited from doing a character curriculum and I'm seeing about what I figured I'd see...that it's a toss up on those who do and those who don't.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Nov 3, 2017 9:23:16 GMT -6
I completely understand where you guys that are "just coach" are coming from. I would rather "just coach" than have to deal with the extra stuff. And, yes, off season is right around the corner. I'm not interested in doing character development curriculum to be the look at me guy, or touchy feely, or whatever connotation you have about the people who use the stuff. What I see is a ton of kids without a father making decisions that affect their lives outside of football. Yes, I can coach them hard, love on them, build relationships with them, etc...the reason I'm looking into it is to see if it's worth investing that instead of all off season time to the weight room. I'm glad that you guys that can "just coach", "just coach", but there's a large population of coaches that don't have that luxury that have to deal with mentally weak individuals who think being coached is being criticized. Bottom line I'm trying to look under every stone I can possibly look under to make sure the young men that leave me are going to better society. I know I can do that through "just coaching" but I've only been at one school where "just coaching" was enough to get through to them. Totally agree with this. In some places, you spend more time managing behavior and heading off problems in kids life than you do on field coaching. I used to pride myself in telling folks that we treat every kid like they are our on in our program. I don't believe I can do that anymore, simply because alot of kids don't have the same raising so I can't hold them to the same standard of know how that I would my kid. Some of these kids are raising themselves literally starting at age 8 or 10. If that isnt their situation then you have others who have never experience failure on any level because their parents protected them from it. I think some of these programs could possibly help with those. |
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 3, 2017 9:26:41 GMT -6
I've spoken with a couple of programs around my area over the last year that have been traditionally rotten begin to hit a little bit of a stride as far as winning goes and they attribute it to the fact that they're willing to sacrifice days of off-season work to supplement it with character development. How much, if any, do you invest in it? I've gotten a couple of different resources and I really like the curriculum of them. The issue I can see with it is that you as a coach has to believe in pursuing it and continuing with it even when there doesn't seem to be progress. As a part of our out-of-season program! In-season - we follow Lou Holtz' advice that the best way to deal with "character", is to get rid of those who don't HAVE it (& are a "cancer" to the team). |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 3, 2017 9:30:18 GMT -6
I think some guys feel that character programs are some like infomercial Tony Robins televangelist type crap. Yep Agreed. I would imagine that y'all are doing it correctly, so this is a general statement, not a specific or personal one. But, there is a real danger losing credibility in the kids eyes. I just think that pretty soon the players just start to roll the eyes. When everything is a teaching moment, nothing is a teaching a moment. Similar to the coach who always screams or always cusses or always is pumped, pretty soon the kids tune you out and use lose the opportunity when real situations arise. On the other hand, if you don't over do it, when a situation arises, you can use something you have already taught. Another concern. What does the character program look like in year two? What does it look like to the senior in year 4 of the program who has witnessed the real you. If the real you is a great role model who loves the kids and works them and uses teaching moments as the arise, then did he really need the program? If the real you is is someone who expects more out the kids then you put in, or is inconsistent, or just uses the kids, or is a jerk, or leaves the program at the first opportunity after preaching loyalty, you could do irreparable life-long damage. Maybe not that specific situation (which character could be argued on both sides here. I think that is political situation, not necessarily a character one anyways). But, American life hasn't been a bed of roses either. What about the Vietnam War. What about actual real segregated schools? What about when they integrated? Character is a different animal than scheme or how you practice or condition or whatever. It isn't like there is some new way of being on time or being honest or putting the team first. Of course every coach should evaluate everything they do, including character development. Points we can agree on: Character matters. We should try and be good model. Nothing wrong with using a canned character program. Nothing wrong with not using one. What you do is WAY more important than what you say. |
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Post by PSS on Nov 3, 2017 13:26:59 GMT -6
There are all kinds of character development material out there. Most of it is good stuff and is very similar. IMO, the most important aspect of character development is that all the coaches have to be on the same page. Everyone has to address it with seriousness and sincerity. If not it you have difficulty with developing character and achieving the goals you set. There are 2 things that we did as a coaching staff. The first was to go through the FCA 3D Coaching Program. The second was to attend a Coaching Greatness seminar / workshop. The Coaching Greatness is sponsored by the Flippen Group, the one's that also do "Capturing Kids Hearts". It's not the same, I've been through both. We had just gone 1-9 ( 3 seasons ago ) and knew we had to change some things up. It was also our second year here. The first season after going through these we went 4 rounds deep in the playoffs. This year we have won our district and will be 9-1 with a win tonight and looking at a deep playoff run. Each one of these change the way we approached coaching. It showed our individual weaknesses and strengths, what we needed to improve. I highly recommend these. It will help you grow as a coach. flippengroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Coaching_Greatness_Flyer.pdf |
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 3, 2017 13:33:46 GMT -6
Part of me also thinks if I can help a few kids be better leaders, and maybe the kid who doesn't have the roll model at home but is hungry for what we are telling them then it is worth it. Like somebody said it is a few minutes. We did it on Mondays. I had the word for the week tied into the game plan power point and on the practice plans for the coaches. We talked about how that theme for the week was going to help us.
I like the 3D Coaching stuff.
It is not that easy in most schools to get rid of cancer. At small schools you might need that player to win and don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face. While I agree sometimes it is the easiest way, and sometimes you have to fish or cut bait, sometimes you get your hands tied.
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Post by PSS on Nov 3, 2017 13:36:31 GMT -6
There are all kinds of character development material out there. Most of it is good stuff and is very similar. IMO, the most important aspect of character development is that all the coaches have to be on the same page. Everyone has to address it with seriousness and sincerity. If not it you have difficulty with developing character and achieving the goals you set. There are 2 things that we did as a coaching staff. The first was to go through the FCA 3D Coaching Program. The second was to attend a Coaching Greatness seminar / workshop. The Coaching Greatness is sponsored by the Flippen Group, the one's that also do "Capturing Kids Hearts". It's not the same, I've been through both. We had just gone 1-9 ( 3 seasons ago ) and knew we had to change some things up. It was also our second year here. The first season after going through these we went 4 rounds deep in the playoffs. This year we have won our district and will be 9-1 with a win tonight and looking at a deep playoff run. Each one of these change the way we approached coaching. It showed our individual weaknesses and strengths, what we needed to improve. I highly recommend these. It will help you grow as a coach. flippengroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Coaching_Greatness_Flyer.pdf Let me note, after going through these programs we teach character development everyday. Every chance we get we teach it. I don't think you need a special curriculum or program to teach it. iCoach has a phone app that is very helpful if you need information or quotes. |
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