coachZL
Sophomore Member
Posts: 150 
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Post by coachZL on Oct 27, 2017 14:29:49 GMT -6
I was just told about this situation in a game that was played last night. 1:30 to go in the first half and the Kicking team is up 35-0. they decide to do a mid level pooch kick and end up recovering the ball (I was told the receiving team ended up moving away from the ball instead of trying to recover it). They try to score one more time before half but were unsuccessful. The guy telling me the situation (not a coach on either staff) was furious that the kicking team wouldn't just kick the ball deep. He said it was one of the most unsportsmanlike things he has ever seen at a game.
I then give him my response:
That doesn't really bother me, its still the first half, it wasn't an onside kick, and why not try to get a few more reps for your guys on offense if its going to be a running clock in the second half anyways. I'm a defensive coach and although I would not make that same decision it does not bother me at all that is what ended up happening. The way I look at it is the receiving team should have just recovered the ball then this wouldn't even be a problem.
Also I do not believe it the the offense's job to stop scoring just because they are dominating a team, that is the job of the defense. If you don't want them to score any more, STOP THEM. I've been on the wrong side of those blow out games before and as the DC it is tough but I have never been upset with another coaching staff because of their play calling. Even this year we had a really rough game losing pretty bad 35 to 6 (not all points given up on defense but i digress). Less than a minute to go in the game opponent decides to throw a wheel route which they catch for a touchdown. Other coaches on staff were pissed and upset with me because I wasn't. "If our DB would have done was he was supposed to do in cover 3 then there would be nothing to be mad about" was my response to them.
Needless to say this guy telling me what happened didn't like my response and proceeded to tell me that I am a terrible person because I condone behavior like that.
Sorry for such a long post but what is your take on this situation or ones similar?
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Post by bignose on Oct 27, 2017 14:38:43 GMT -6
I don't see this particular situation being either unethical or unsportsmanlike.
It's in the first half, and the clock will be in running time in the second half.
You want an example of unsportsmanlike / unethical?
Many years ago, I witnessed a JV game where a team is up by 40, sores and goes for 2. They succeed. 48-0.
Then on the ensuing kickoff, they onside kick, recover this, and begin throwing 35 yard bombs into the end zone with their first string in.
And there is like 2 minutes left in the game.
The losing coach refused to shake hands with the winner at the end of the game, he got censured for his lack of sportsmanship.
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coachZL
Sophomore Member
Posts: 150
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Post by coachZL on Oct 27, 2017 15:00:47 GMT -6
I don't see this particular situation being either unethical or unsportsmanlike. It's in the first half, and the clock will be in running time in the second half. You want an example of unsportsmanlike / unethical? Many years ago, I witnessed a JV game where a team is up by 40, sores and goes for 2. They succeed. 48-0. Then on the ensuing kickoff, they onside kick, recover this, and begin throwing 35 yard bombs into the end zone with their first string in. And there is like 2 minutes left in the game. The losing coach refused to shake hands with the winner at the end of the game, he got censured for his lack of sportsmanship.Yea that is bad. That would be a game where I would be upset. |
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Post by agap on Oct 27, 2017 17:40:20 GMT -6
I was just talking about this with a coach who has won a few state titles. We both said to score as many points as possible in the first half because you never know what will happen in the second half. Obviously if it's 84-0 in the first half, then you probably wouldn't keep trying to score. But I was at a game a few days ago where a team was up by 30 points late in the first half and they were still trying to score. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 27, 2017 19:14:05 GMT -6
First half is open game. Don’t get mad, get better. Second half blowouts separate men from boys, and I’m not talking about guys in jerseys.
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Post by bartimus58 on Oct 27, 2017 20:06:28 GMT -6
I have a few opinions on this. First, do what you want in the first half. If you are up by 40+ in the second, put in the second string, they can get game reps vs. a varsity team. Go a couple series and put in the thirds. That’s just me. Here is where I get pissed, If you get into a kicking situation, kick the ball. I agree it is the defenses job to stop you, but if it’s 3&10, march out your punt or FG team. We held a team to 4&20. We are down 57-0 in the 4th and they throw a fade and yep their JV dude catches it in double coverage and scores. I don’t know what upset me more, them throwing on 4&20 or us not able to stop it. Probably us not being able to stop it.
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Post by Old Pro on Oct 27, 2017 22:28:57 GMT -6
I agree with the what happens in th first half, happens. But in the second half, if the coach with the lead calls the dogs, them the other coach should too. I have watched a coach down 46 at the half keep his starters in the whole way, and onside kick all night against the backups when they score.
Same coach also down 40+ keeps starters in to pad stats of QB. Brags after the game about throwing for 400 yards but gave up 81 puts in the process.
Point is, there is a point where keeping your starters in vs back ups is as bad as running up the score.
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Post by carookie on Oct 28, 2017 0:43:42 GMT -6
If you are up 60+ late in the game then you shouldn't be throwing bombs trying to pile on the scoreboard. Yes it is the defenses job to stop you from scoring, but it is also your job to teach sportsmanship and respect.
I don't mind a team still trying to win when it is late and they are down big; but along those same lines if a team is loading up the box with their studs while I'm trying to run out the clock then they can't be upset if I throw the ball a little bit, because that is a safety concern for my back up RBs
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Post by fantom on Oct 28, 2017 10:54:59 GMT -6
I was just told about this situation in a game that was played last night. 1:30 to go in the first half and the Kicking team is up 35-0. they decide to do a mid level pooch kick and end up recovering the ball (I was told the receiving team ended up moving away from the ball instead of trying to recover it). They try to score one more time before half but were unsuccessful. The guy telling me the situation (not a coach on either staff) was furious that the kicking team wouldn't just kick the ball deep. He said it was one of the most unsportsmanlike things he has ever seen at a game. I then give him my response: That doesn't really bother me, its still the first half, it wasn't an onside kick, and why not try to get a few more reps for your guys on offense if its going to be a running clock in the second half anyways. I'm a defensive coach and although I would not make that same decision it does not bother me at all that is what ended up happening. The way I look at it is the receiving team should have just recovered the ball then this wouldn't even be a problem. Also I do not believe it the the offense's job to stop scoring just because they are dominating a team, that is the job of the defense. If you don't want them to score any more, STOP THEM. I've been on the wrong side of those blow out games before and as the DC it is tough but I have never been upset with another coaching staff because of their play calling. Even this year we had a really rough game losing pretty bad 35 to 6 (not all points given up on defense but i digress). Less than a minute to go in the game opponent decides to throw a wheel route which they catch for a touchdown. Other coaches on staff were pissed and upset with me because I wasn't. "If our DB would have done was he was supposed to do in cover 3 then there would be nothing to be mad about" was my response to them. Needless to say this guy telling me what happened didn't like my response and proceeded to tell me that I am a terrible person because I condone behavior like that. Sorry for such a long post but what is your take on this situation or ones similar? I've thought about this for a while. Looking at the facts as presented, my feeling toward whoever told the story is, phuk him. |
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Post by coachbdud on Oct 28, 2017 12:51:39 GMT -6
some times you just dont have a kicker who is very good... you pooch it to make them have to fair catch it and prevent them from getting a big return to spark them into a score before half
catch the ball instead of complaining
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Post by 50slantstrong on Oct 28, 2017 12:54:04 GMT -6
LOL it’s a pooch kick not a double reverse pass flea flicker razzle dazzle special. What a crybaby
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famar
Sophomore Member
Looking to learn as much as I can from this site and all of the coaches here.
Posts: 208
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Post by famar on Oct 28, 2017 13:33:36 GMT -6
My team lost 58-0 last night. The team we lost to came in 6-0 and we were 1-5, they're very good and we're very bad, so the result really wasn't a surprise.
Second half started 35-0 with a running clock, they returned the kickoff for a 95 yd TD to make it 42-0. They scored two more TD's, again no surprise, but on the first one they faked the extra point and threw for a 2 pt conversion, and on the last TD they went TE pop pass for the 2 pt conversion.
Bottom line, we were pissed that they decided to rub it in our face, but we were also pissed that for a majority of the game, it looked like our kids didn't compete.
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 28, 2017 13:52:33 GMT -6
It seems like we're all in agreement here, but if a pooch kick up 35-0 is one of the most unsportsmanlike things your buddy has ever seen, he's had a pretty blessed life as a coach, or fan, or whatever his particular role is.
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Post by nicku on Oct 29, 2017 14:11:32 GMT -6
If its a pooch, isnt that in theory just saying, "here's the ball at the 35 without having to return it at all?" Its not like they are surprise onside kicking with 2 left in the 4th quarter. If anything, they were gifting them the ball. We have done that before when up big. Pooch it up in the air and don't send the dogs on the guy catching it.
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 30, 2017 9:56:00 GMT -6
There is nothing wrong with keeping your foot on the gas for the whole first half. The third quarter can be iffy. I don’t know where the line gets drawn exactly but at some point subbing and letting up on the gas probably happen. But first half for sure it’s on.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Oct 30, 2017 10:07:15 GMT -6
I don't see this particular situation being either unethical or unsportsmanlike. It's in the first half, and the clock will be in running time in the second half. You want an example of unsportsmanlike / unethical? Many years ago, I witnessed a JV game where a team is up by 40, sores and goes for 2. They succeed. 48-0. Then on the ensuing kickoff, they onside kick, recover this, and begin throwing 35 yard bombs into the end zone with their first string in. And there is like 2 minutes left in the game. The losing coach refused to shake hands with the winner at the end of the game, he got censured for his lack of sportsmanship.Typically when that happens it's because of bad blood or a grudge. |
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Post by Coach Vint on Oct 30, 2017 10:58:53 GMT -6
Been on both sides of blowouts. First half is free game. Second half you play your backups and run the ball. Our goal in the 2nd half is to get out healthy and get young guys playing time. Early in my career I was on the wrong side of a game where a team threw a reverse pass up 42-0 late in the game with their starters in. I was upset at them, but more upset at us for playing so bad. We still shook hands, but we remembered that the next year when we were much improved. Another team we played was up 49-0 with 2 minutes to go in the first half. We didn't have a first down. They ran their two minute drill and threw a fade for a TD at the end of the half. In the 2nd half they played their backups. We ended up losing 56-21. I had no problem with this at all.
We have been on the right side a few times, and the first half we ran our system and tried to score as much as we could. In the second half we slowed things down and played everyone. The tough part is when you have several blowout wins. You have to get your guys into game shape for the playoffs. The only way to do that is to play them.
People get too upset over blowouts because they let their ego get in the way. When we got blown out back in the day we tried to take it like men and get better from it.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 30, 2017 11:46:31 GMT -6
I see nothing wrong with the pooch kick; they were still playing the game and trying to keep it away from the returners. Also, the receiving team should be thanking them as they would have had good field position if they did their friggin' jobs. And, it's the first half; of course they're going to try and punch it in again.. Their kids deserve to be able to play the game without having the foot taken off of the gas. It's not their fault the opposing team played like crap.
I only get upset in blow-outs if the opposing team leaves their starters in throughout the whole game. We will have our depth subbed in to avoid injuries to the starters so they put our younger guys at risk by playing their studs.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Oct 30, 2017 12:07:29 GMT -6
Been on both sides. A few years ago, a team that we had beaten soundly, in back to back years, came to our place looking for some payback. We had never run the score up on them, but one could tell that this particular year, they were good, we weren't, and they were going to remind us of it.
They were posting a shut out, with only minutes left in the game. They were up 28-0 and slinging the ball all around the yard. It was obvious what was going on. On their last drive they are still pushing the ball down the field when their QB drops back and throws a pick six.
I shook hands with the coach and told him he could have had a shut out, if he wasn't so greedy. His sheepish grin confirmed what I already knew. Anyway, I wasn't mad.
SH*t happens.
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Post by tothehouse on Oct 30, 2017 12:21:54 GMT -6
We were down by 35 really late in the game Friday. I told one of our players that "if they throw 4 verticals" somebody start a fight.
The opposing team is well respected, etc.
With their back ups in they throw 4 verticals and score.
I drank a lot of beer this weekend.
PS- Nobody fought. I probably would have as a player...just saying.
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Post by MICoach on Oct 30, 2017 12:25:40 GMT -6
I agree with the what happens in th first half, happens. But in the second half, if the coach with the lead calls the dogs, them the other coach should too. I have watched a coach down 46 at the half keep his starters in the whole way, and onside kick all night against the backups when they score. Same coach also down 40+ keeps starters in to pad stats of QB. Brags after the game about throwing for 400 yards but gave up 81 puts in the process. Point is, there is a point where keeping your starters in vs back ups is as bad as running up the score. We had this happen this past Friday. Up 34 at half, score again on first drive of the second half. Starting defense shuts down their first drive and we (quite clearly) go into sub-mode. They drive down and score, then kick onside. HFC called a fade to the JV kid just to send a message. He's definitely of the mindset that if he calls of the dogs, they should too. They kept starters in against our 2's/3's/JV for most of the game for whatever reason. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 30, 2017 12:30:31 GMT -6
Second half you play your backups and run the ball. Agree with everything, but I do think there are sometimes that throwing is fine. My guess is that you were making a general statement and would agree. No problem having your backups work a little on pass game. No problem at all throwing if they gang up on the run on your backups. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 30, 2017 17:42:30 GMT -6
We were down by 35 really late in the game Friday. I told one of our players that "if they throw 4 verticals" somebody start a fight. The opposing team is well respected, etc. With their back ups in they throw 4 verticals and score. I drank a lot of beer this weekend. PS- Nobody fought. I probably would have as a player...just saying. Why? Because you got worked by a backup?? |
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Post by tothehouse on Oct 30, 2017 18:40:46 GMT -6
Don't mind throwing. Defenses need to defend. 4 vertical wasn't what I was thinking though.
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Post by coacht2210 on Nov 4, 2017 20:27:25 GMT -6
The tough part is when you have several blowout wins. You have to get your guys into game shape for the playoffs. The only way to do that is to play them. This is sometimes a slippery slope. I still think a coach's loyalty must be to his team and not the other team's feelings. Playing 2 quarters for 2 straight weeks is not going to prepare you to face a playoff team. As coaches, we can slow the tempo, and control the game via playcalling but sometimes you need the kids to get reps to prepare them for NEXT week. Also it kinda stinks for seniors to be forced to sit out multiple second halves. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 4, 2017 20:39:03 GMT -6
The tough part is when you have several blowout wins. You have to get your guys into game shape for the playoffs. The only way to do that is to play them. This is sometimes a slippery slope. I still think a coach's loyalty must be to his team and not the other team's feelings. Playing 2 quarters for 2 straight weeks is not going to prepare you to face a playoff team. As coaches, we can slow the tempo, and control the game via playcalling but sometimes you need the kids to get reps to prepare them for NEXT week. Also it kinda stinks for seniors to be forced to sit out multiple second halves. Yes, but to counter that thought, chances are that in games like we are discussing (running clock after the half) are the starters really getting ANYTHING out of playing in terms of development or getting ready for the next week? |
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Post by Defcord on Nov 5, 2017 8:54:11 GMT -6
This is sometimes a slippery slope. I still think a coach's loyalty must be to his team and not the other team's feelings. Playing 2 quarters for 2 straight weeks is not going to prepare you to face a playoff team. As coaches, we can slow the tempo, and control the game via playcalling but sometimes you need the kids to get reps to prepare them for NEXT week. Also it kinda stinks for seniors to be forced to sit out multiple second halves. Yes, but to counter that thought, chances are that in games like we are discussing (running clock after the half) are the starters really getting ANYTHING out of playing in terms of development or getting ready for the next week? l would add to this that if you are blowing a team out by 5-6 scores that you probably have backups that you can get better live reps against in practice. Blow out games suck on both ends. My biggest fear is getting a kid that the team nerds to compete in the playoffs hurt. Thus when i know for sure the game is out of hand it’s time to sub. |
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Post by Old Pro on Nov 5, 2017 20:27:35 GMT -6
Maybe if youre mad it's at yourself for not coaching up the kids to cover kick offs or even call for a fair catch. That coach may have done you a favor in a round about way. Maybe you'll cover this and other situations so you don't get burned in a close game that may cost you a win.
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Post by coacht2210 on Nov 8, 2017 10:10:46 GMT -6
This is sometimes a slippery slope. I still think a coach's loyalty must be to his team and not the other team's feelings. Playing 2 quarters for 2 straight weeks is not going to prepare you to face a playoff team. As coaches, we can slow the tempo, and control the game via playcalling but sometimes you need the kids to get reps to prepare them for NEXT week. Also it kinda stinks for seniors to be forced to sit out multiple second halves. Yes, but to counter that thought, chances are that in games like we are discussing (running clock after the half) are the starters really getting ANYTHING out of playing in terms of development or getting ready for the next week? I guess I wasnt talking about a completely lopsided games. There have been games where we may have been up 3 or 4 scores but the game is still competitive (they are getting stops and able to move the ball and such). In some of these instances I have thought it's better for my team's future to keep starters in and work on some things (such as inside run game or 2 tite sets) than it is to sub my JV in. Once there is nothing for the starters to gain, I would say it's pretty clear they should come out. 3 weeks ago we were on the other side of this to some extent. Game was competitive but we were down 35-14 with 2 minutes left. We just got the ball back and I had no intention of subbing my varsity offense. Those kids deserved to finish the game and it was the best interest of the team's future to have them try and execute a 2 minute scenario drive. The opposing team sent his JV in but upon seeing that we did not, he send his varsity back out. I was really glad he did this. We were able to move the ball and score on the last play which was a big boost for our team. I think they're coach got something out of it too as his kids were competing hard to the end as well. I think the "feel" of how competitive the game is can have more to do with it than the score sometimes. |
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Post by TheMilkman on Nov 12, 2017 8:38:00 GMT -6
My guess is if this guy were on the other side of the situation he'd see no problem with it. I think a pooch kick is not only a smart move at anytime in the game (why kick it to their best athlete and give him 50 yards wide to run??) but a pooch is also a sign of respect for the return team. It's a defensive play. Would he rather them kick it deep to possibly pin them back so they could get better field position for yet another score???
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