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Post by larrymoe on Oct 26, 2017 12:18:10 GMT -6
We had a decent amount of pushback from one parent in particular. She called a meeting with our AD, he backed me and we didn't hear much, if anything, the rest of the season about such things. Despite the horror stories, I think most parents, deep down, realize you have to be at practice to have any understanding of what's going on in that week's game. What were the parent's objections? Just wondering how she framed her argument and why she was resistant to what you and your staff are trying to do. She thought it was “ {censored}” that we made her kids run after they missed practice despite the dr telling them to not go outside after their shots (which was a new one to me). I explained to her that we’re out there for 2 hours a day. You can’t miss that and still be in the same condition as the kids who were there. She was still pissed. Oddly, she didn’t seem to care that her kid wasn’t starting Friday. I think she was mainly pissed because she had to wait for them to finish running and that impacted her personal life. I really doubt it had anything more to it than she didn’t get her way and had to take time out of her life. Ultimately in her meeting with the AD she tried everything she could to get her way and get me in trouble. She ended with “my sons told me Coach Larrymoe said practice sometimes makes him want to do heroin. You gunna let that around my boys?” AD asked me about and I said, you’ve seen our games, don’t they make you want to do drugs? He laughed and told me not to say things like that. The irony is she’s an ex stripper who I assure you does drugs and she drug that out to try to achieve her means of getting me in trouble.
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Post by ahall005 on Oct 26, 2017 12:21:41 GMT -6
In the past we have done 20 up downs for the team for every person not at practice. The kids don't cut each other much slack when someone is a repeat offender.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 26, 2017 12:42:40 GMT -6
What do you guys do about kids who miss all or parts of school day but then come to practice?
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Post by fantom on Oct 26, 2017 12:48:50 GMT -6
What do you guys do about kids who miss all or parts of school day but then come to practice? To put it bluntly, it only becomes my problem when they don't come to practice.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 26, 2017 12:51:31 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence?
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Post by fantom on Oct 26, 2017 12:58:26 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence? That's not the same question.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 26, 2017 13:02:22 GMT -6
Yeah I guess I have a couple of related questions:
-Do others have a policy about needing to attend school in order to attend practice? -If you are aware of a player missing school, is there a consequence at football, i.e. run, sit out practice, etc
This is something I'm seeing more of lately. Kids miss school but come to practice. Personally, I think that's a problem.
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Post by throwahitch on Oct 26, 2017 13:09:23 GMT -6
What do you guys do about kids who miss all or parts of school day but then come to practice? To put it bluntly, it only becomes my problem when they don't come to practice. As a player under a good program. It was unacceptable to miss practice. You did your dr appointments, drivers license, etc during school. You didnt miss practice.
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Post by tothehouse on Oct 26, 2017 13:11:49 GMT -6
We were having this discussion earlier about teachers talking to coaches. If a kid is being a butt head in class...what is the teacher's response to that kid? The teacher then dishes out the consequence. Sure it can affect your kid and might cause missed time for detention, etc. My point is....I'm NOT doing the teacher's job as well. If he/she has an issue with a kid...then discipline them. I'll deal with the kid football wise.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 13:12:23 GMT -6
I think modeling is key. You can't ask kids to do things that you are not willing to do yourself. This also goes for assistant coaches. I have let go several coaches that could not display the attributes that I thought were important. I can not hold a kid accountable for being late, if his position group coach doesn't care about time. Surround kids with great people and great things happen. Finding great people is a struggle This is a great point. The coaches' body language and attitude is everything. Leadership isn't as much about what you say, but about what you do and what kind of attitude you put out. If the coaches are upbeat, optimistic, focused, professional, organized, and disciplined while caring about the players, the players will follow that lead subconsciously. If the coaches are losing their minds and freaking out about every bit of adversity that arises, or if they're being sloppy, always looking for shortcuts or shirking responsibility, the players will follow those examples, too.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 26, 2017 13:17:49 GMT -6
So let's say you have a kid who chronically misses school. Teacher marks him absent, calls home, and alerts the HC. Should the HC get involved? I say yes. If a kid cannot make the effort to get to school regularly, he has not earned the privilege of playing time. And I'm not talking about an absence here or there for Dr. appt etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 13:26:40 GMT -6
What do you guys do about kids who miss all or parts of school day but then come to practice? I've coached at places that had school policies in place about that. If a kid missed school (or had ISS/OSS that day), he wasn't allowed to practice. If that happened on a game day, he couldn't play. If your school has no such policy, I'd practice the kid but ask him WTF he wasn't in school. If it's an ongoing thing, then it's something to look at.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 26, 2017 13:38:23 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence? I will be glad to help the teacher and admin out. I will be glad to give the kid bear crawls for missed work, misbehavior, and missing class. But, that teacher should be emailing the admin and parents if Johnny hasn't been in 3rd period all week. I/m for helping, not doing their job.
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Post by throwahitch on Oct 26, 2017 13:54:01 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence? I will be glad to help the teacher and admin out. I will be glad to give the kid bear crawls for missed work, misbehavior, and missing class. But, that teacher should be emailing the admin and parents if Johnny hasn't been in 3rd period all week. I/m for helping, not doing their job. Exactly. Treat the players as you do every other student.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 26, 2017 18:54:04 GMT -6
I will be glad to help the teacher and admin out. I will be glad to give the kid bear crawls for missed work, misbehavior, and missing class. But, that teacher should be emailing the admin and parents if Johnny hasn't been in 3rd period all week. I/m for helping, not doing their job. Exactly. Treat the players as you do every other student. When I was an HC. I told the teachers that came to me that I will work with you and do whatever I can to get the kid to move in the right direction. BUT you can't have it both ways. If you write a player up then he gets whatever discipline the admin gives him. I am not going to double punish him. Now, if you come to me first I will give him a consequence and talk to him and try to get him moving in the right direction. I don't believe in slamming a kid twice. So I will work with you if you want but I don't think it's fair to punish a kid twice so don't bring that BS to me.
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Post by Old Pro on Oct 26, 2017 22:44:30 GMT -6
I remember reading a quote once from Chuck Knox. A teacher told him that "his player" was causing problems in class. What was he going to do about it? Knox replied, " your English student fumbled at the goal line Friday night! What are YOU going to do about that?" In other words, do your job and I'll do mine.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 27, 2017 13:28:55 GMT -6
What do you guys do about kids who miss all or parts of school day but then come to practice? Start em'
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Post by chidesta on Oct 27, 2017 13:34:15 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence? Forward the email onto the parent, CC the Teacher on it and have the Parent and Teacher deal with the problem. You COACH Football, don't use the Sport as the consequence for other things.
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Post by blb on Oct 27, 2017 13:44:04 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence?
Isn't that the teacher's and school's attendance office problem?
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Post by chidesta on Oct 27, 2017 13:48:33 GMT -6
So if a teacher emails you and says Johhny hasn't been to my 3rd period class all week. No consequence?
Isn't that the teacher's and school's attendance office problem?
The OP wasn't asking about Teacher's and school's attendance office problems. He was asking about how to kill a losing culture.
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Post by blb on Oct 27, 2017 14:12:22 GMT -6
Isn't that the teacher's and school's attendance office problem?
The OP wasn't asking about Teacher's and school's attendance office problems. He was asking about how to kill a losing culture.
,,and you just posted "Start 'em" in reply to NC1974's question about kids missing all or part of school.
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Post by hsrose on Oct 27, 2017 14:29:07 GMT -6
What do you guys do about kids who miss all or parts of school day but then come to practice? I get a daily email from the attendance clerk saying which players are ineligible for today. Means they missed 2+ periods of school that day or something. Means they can't practice, I got no say in that. I can't really discipline them because I don't know what the deal was, Dr. appt, slept in, whatever, it's the school that says they are ineligible.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 27, 2017 14:33:33 GMT -6
The OP wasn't asking about Teacher's and school's attendance office problems. He was asking about how to kill a losing culture.
,,and you just posted "Start 'em" in reply to NC1974 's question about kids missing all or part of school.
Hey BLB guess who has two thumbs and realized he can like his own posts? THIS GUY!!!
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Post by hsrose on Oct 27, 2017 15:25:52 GMT -6
It seems that the word 'culture' is becoming over used and out of fashion. Maybe so but I don't know what else to name the term that describes the environment that I operate within when coaching the football team. Student apathy, no parent involvement, staff apathy about sports ("What?! ANOTHER rally for the xxx team?"), players getting laughed at for playing, players going off to feed bunnies instead of coming to practice, what term do you use to describe that? Culture seems to fit.
So how do you change the culture? Hell, I don't know. I'm in my 3rd year and the players are now to the point that they won't quit in a game. That's a big deal because they used to just fold up their tents and head for home when the other team scored. No fight, no trying to come back, just roll over and play dead. Or lie there and think of England. So we've managed to change that aspect.
Grades are coming up, I lost a Jr. to grades because his history grade dropped because of a concussion and the admin/teacher didn't acknowledge it. Lost 4 Fr/So to grades but 3 of them have IEP's and are failing multiple classes in that. The 4th has an incomplete in PE because he didn't turn in his course syllabus. But, I got 3 kids back from probation so the net was a -1. Lost a total of 9 last year.
Players may be fewer but they seem to be the kids we would want to have on the team. Seems that the ones we aren't getting out are the ones that didn't do anything (fundraisers, summer workouts) and caused issues.
Is this changing overnight? Oh, heck no. Am I working on anything outside of the team? No, not really. I'm trying to build relationships with the staff and teachers and admins, but I can't get to the student body as a group yet, just no bandwidth to do that right now. The Leadership group is the spearhead for the school and they seem to consider football to be the stage on which they get to perform their leadership activities. The Leadership teacher last year said she wished things were better but the Leadership kids considered the football team to be dumb jocks and the players consider the Leadership kids to be effete nerds.
I've been making voice memos on my phone about practice and organization and how not to do things for the past 18 months. Up to 57 items. I'm working on a 'here's what is going to change for 2018' document that is at 23 pages right now. After 3 years as the HC here I finally feel that I can charge ahead (in spite of all that happened here this year) and implement my plan/program in its all it's glory and wonderment. I'll probably lose a couple coaches as well when they see what I expect them to do. It's not just changing the kids/school, got to change the attitudes of the coaches as well.
I don't know what to call it, but culture is real and will kick your a$$ without a second thought.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 27, 2017 17:09:36 GMT -6
This is obviously my opinion, and I know things are different everywhere, but if you have kids who chronically miss school but still make it to practice, that is a "culture" problem. To me it means that there are kids who for whatever reason can make getting to football a priority, but can't make getting to school a priority. Regardless of record, that sounds like a losing culture to me. And again, I'm not referring to a kid who missed for a Dr. appt. I'm referring to guys who regularly miss classes. I'm a little surprised that more people don't see that as a football problem. How do you demand accountability, personal responsibility, etc, and not address this issue?
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Post by silkyice on Oct 27, 2017 17:52:05 GMT -6
This is obviously my opinion, and I know things are different everywhere, but if you have kids who chronically miss school but still make it to practice, that is a "culture" problem. To me it means that there are kids who for whatever reason can make getting to football a priority, but can't make getting to school a priority. Regardless of record, that sounds like a losing culture to me. And again, I'm not referring to a kid who missed for a Dr. appt. I'm referring to guys who regularly miss classes. I'm a little surprised that more people don't see that as a football problem. How do you demand accountability, personal responsibility, etc, and not address this issue? Straw man???
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 27, 2017 18:02:12 GMT -6
This is obviously my opinion, and I know things are different everywhere, but if you have kids who chronically miss school but still make it to practice, that is a "culture" problem. To me it means that there are kids who for whatever reason can make getting to football a priority, but can't make getting to school a priority. Regardless of record, that sounds like a losing culture to me. And again, I'm not referring to a kid who missed for a Dr. appt. I'm referring to guys who regularly miss classes. I'm a little surprised that more people don't see that as a football problem. How do you demand accountability, personal responsibility, etc, and not address this issue? Straw man??? Not intentionally, maybe I misinterpreted something. The OP was referred to how to get kids to stop missing practices as part of his original q. I chimed in "what about kids who miss school but make it to practice?" I was surprised by the number of people who seemed to feel this wasn't necessarily their concern as football coaches.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 27, 2017 18:43:11 GMT -6
Not intentionally, maybe I misinterpreted something. The OP was referred to how to get kids to stop missing practices as part of his original q. I chimed in "what about kids who miss school but make it to practice?" I was surprised by the number of people who seemed to feel this wasn't necessarily their concern as football coaches. I understand. I just have never heard of that being a wide spread problem anywhere. I would imagine if it was, admin would step in.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 28, 2017 5:44:43 GMT -6
What were the parent's objections? Just wondering how she framed her argument and why she was resistant to what you and your staff are trying to do. She thought it was “ {censored}” that we made her kids run after they missed practice despite the dr telling them to not go outside after their shots (which was a new one to me). I explained to her that we’re out there for 2 hours a day. You can’t miss that and still be in the same condition as the kids who were there. She was still pissed. Oddly, she didn’t seem to care that her kid wasn’t starting Friday. I think she was mainly pissed because she had to wait for them to finish running and that impacted her personal life. I really doubt it had anything more to it than she didn’t get her way and had to take time out of her life. Ultimately in her meeting with the AD she tried everything she could to get her way and get me in trouble. She ended with “my sons told me Coach Larrymoe said practice sometimes makes him want to do heroin. You gunna let that around my boys?” AD asked me about and I said, you’ve seen our games, don’t they make you want to do drugs? He laughed and told me not to say things like that. The irony is she’s an ex stripper who I assure you does drugs and she drug that out to try to achieve her means of getting me in trouble. That's great...I love your AD's response! And can someone REALLY be an "ex-stripper"...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2017 8:11:17 GMT -6
can someone REALLY be an "ex-stripper"... Once a stripper, always a stripper. The clothes may stay on, but the crazy never comes off.
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