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Post by badtotheflexbone on Oct 22, 2017 13:49:30 GMT -6
I haven't bought a system but I have done the following: 1) Read as many books as I could on given topic 2) Find as much internet resources as possible 3) Speak/ask as many questions as possible to learn from other coaches
I do this because I am okay with admitting I don't know jack chit about football realize the game has been around for 100+ years thus no need to re-invent the wheel Learn from coaches who have done this longer than I've been alive
Oh and it's all science's fault. They haven't been able to get the life expectancy rate to exceed 100 so I know I have time to experience/learn everything for myself. Sadly, this leads me with no other option thus I have to learn from others to accelerate the learning process
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 22, 2017 16:56:57 GMT -6
Legit question....I've always wondered why a program would buy a "system" from a coach? I've seen some of them, and they're basically the same as every available playbook you can find. Am I missing something as to the advantage of doing something like this when you could get the same kinds of information from other coaches for free? Because in several cases, buying a "system" is the closest one would get to coaching with that coach. Prior to that, if you weren't lucky enough to coach in a quality coaching tree, how were you going to learn? Clinics? Talk about taking forever for that kind of professional growth and development.
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Post by carookie on Oct 22, 2017 17:00:01 GMT -6
Maybe there is a difference between "buying a system" and "buying into the system". The latter being the so-called 'coach in a can' where you just do what the system says, how it says, completely without question. The former being just a search for knowledge.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 22, 2017 19:19:03 GMT -6
Maybe there is a difference between "buying a system" and "buying into the system". The latter being the so-called 'coach in a can' where you just do what the system says, how it says, completely without question. The former being just a search for knowledge. If I am paying 25 bucks for a book..maybe. If it is a 4 figure investment, I am doing what the guy says. Those type of purchases have troubleshooting included though.
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Post by mholst40 on Oct 23, 2017 0:01:20 GMT -6
I don’t think packaged “systems” are a bad idea, at least for a starting point.
A lot of us are teachers and we don’t create our curriculum. A lot of people use some type of system for strength & conditioning programs as well. What’s the difference with an offense or defense?
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Post by funkfriss on Oct 23, 2017 8:13:39 GMT -6
I don’t think packaged “systems” are a bad idea, at least for a starting point. A lot of us are teachers and we don’t create our curriculum. A lot of people use some type of system for strength & conditioning programs as well. What’s the difference with an offense or defense? This is a GREAT analogy. You take a foundation and make it your own. I tell you what, if there had been a "US History System" available when I first started teaching I would have GLADLY ponied up the $$ for a glimpse of what an expert teacher does which his/her curriculum. Wait, am I having a Shark Tank moment???
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Post by pitt1980 on Oct 23, 2017 8:35:22 GMT -6
I don’t think packaged “systems” are a bad idea, at least for a starting point. A lot of us are teachers and we don’t create our curriculum. A lot of people use some type of system for strength & conditioning programs as well. What’s the difference with an offense or defense? This is a GREAT analogy. You take a foundation and make it your own. I tell you what, if there had been a "US History System" available when I first started teaching I would have GLADLY ponied up the $$ for a glimpse of what an expert teacher does which his/her curriculum. Wait, am I having a Shark Tank moment???
People who are teachers probably have a better sense for this than I do, but I was under the impression that there are markets for teaching systems
www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/millionaire-teachers-rising-standards-have-led-to-a-lucrative-online/2320189
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Post by fantom on Oct 23, 2017 11:16:19 GMT -6
This is a GREAT analogy. You take a foundation and make it your own. I tell you what, if there had been a "US History System" available when I first started teaching I would have GLADLY ponied up the $$ for a glimpse of what an expert teacher does which his/her curriculum. Wait, am I having a Shark Tank moment???
People who are teachers probably have a better sense for this than I do, but I was under the impression that there are markets for teaching systems
www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/millionaire-teachers-rising-standards-have-led-to-a-lucrative-online/2320189
In my experience these things turn out to be a waste of time and money. Sometimes it's because the district goes cheap. Thy go whole hog into a program, train the staff and mandate that they use it, then don't buy all of the materials needed to use it right. Sometimes it's because of a change in administration. Somebody at the top of the food chain brings in The Next Big Thing. It gets him stories in the newspaper and on TV so he gets promoted. His replacement then introduces HIS new program so that he can get HIS promotion.
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Post by **** on Oct 23, 2017 11:25:25 GMT -6
Sometimes it's because the district goes cheap. Thy go whole hog into a program, train the staff and mandate that they use it, then don't buy all of the materials needed to use it right. Lol been there as a teacher
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Post by carookie on Oct 23, 2017 12:12:36 GMT -6
In my experience these things turn out to be a waste of time and money. Sometimes it's because the district goes cheap. Thy go whole hog into a program, train the staff and mandate that they use it, then don't buy all of the materials needed to use it right. Sometimes it's because of a change in administration. Somebody at the top of the food chain brings in The Next Big Thing. It gets him stories in the newspaper and on TV so he gets promoted. His replacement then introduces HIS new program so that he can get HIS promotion. I would quit my job as a teacher if they tried to make me teach someone else's stuff. What makes their system better than mine?
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Post by morris on Oct 24, 2017 18:37:13 GMT -6
Mileage will vary by system and person. I've been a part of a number of them from being on staff. One of the biggest things is it accelerated my learning. I'm a client of Dan Gonzalez and what I've learned from him has greatly accelerated my ability to teach and run the passing game. Little details of running routes,combinations, teaching and QB play.
We are a Surface to Air client also. We've learned a lot about working the run game in combination with the pass game. RPOs. It has been well worth the investment for us.
Two systems that I've gained a lot from in different areas.
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Post by coachdawhip on Oct 31, 2017 18:23:14 GMT -6
well with the glazier season pass they coming free next year.
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Post by 53 on Oct 31, 2017 18:54:00 GMT -6
Division of labor
Better to be the settler than the pioneer taking the arrows on a lot of this stuff.
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Post by morris on Oct 31, 2017 19:44:50 GMT -6
well with the glazier season pass they coming free next year. What?
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 31, 2017 20:40:22 GMT -6
well with the glazier season pass they coming free next year. What? A lot of those systems like nzone will be included with season pass.
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Post by 60zgo on Oct 31, 2017 21:12:55 GMT -6
The #1 reason to buy into a system is it allows you to be a better coach of your coaches. If you have limited staff or a staff with limited experience a canned system can help you get them up to speed very rapidly.
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Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2017 6:52:05 GMT -6
The real stigma of buying a system is 1) MONEY and 2) PRIDE.
It may be difficult to justify giving a guy money to do "a job", only to have that guy turn around and ask for more money for a product to do "his job".
Both of these points (you're entitled to feel this way) miss the point of packaged systems. True packaged systems are (or should be) nothing more than a streamlined, evolved methodology towards performance. When you "buy a system" what you are buying is consistent vocabulary, practice structure, implementation plans, relevant drills and a system to get the job done in the most efficient manner possible
What IS a system anyway?
You could (maybe someone should market this) package the Saban methodology on defense. What makes the system effective isn't the plays or coverage, it is the structure it exists within....taking common skill sets and (most importantly) using a uniformed vocabulary that stays congruent throughout the base and sub packages.
I feel the biggest benefit to any packaged system is getting your coaches and feeders onboard with what you're doing. You can be the greatest football mind in the game, but it doesn't matter because you can't clone yourself. Most problems of a Head Coach are keeping your assistants IN the boat and rowing in the SAME direction. Hell, its hard enough for a Header to get guys on staff that actually want to coach, let alone coaching what the header intends to run ("hey guys, I saw the Chicago Bears run this play last weekend, we should.....")
In the football world buying a 'system' sounds silly. In the professional world this happens all the time. Why burn through finite resources trying to come up with your own way of doing things when there is a proven process / application that already accomplishes what you're after?
Are you a lazy coach if you purchase BFS or DeFranco's Westside program for your S&C? How is that any different than an offense/defense system?
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 2, 2017 12:13:43 GMT -6
Structure and organization are great points about buying a canned system. Anyone willing to stay up until 1am on Saturdays could have figured out the "plays" behind TFS (UCLA-era, I don't know where the hell you can find MTSU on TV). But as a process engineer I have more than once gotten a little testy towards an OC whose nomenclature was a disaster and whose offense, while comprised of very good "plays," was a mess.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 2, 2017 12:35:03 GMT -6
Structure and organization are great points about buying a canned system. Anyone willing to stay up until 1am on Saturdays could have figured out the "plays" behind TFS (UCLA-era, I don't know where the hell you can find MTSU on TV). But as a process engineer I have more than once gotten a little testy towards an OC whose nomenclature was a disaster and whose offense, while comprised of very good "plays," was a mess. Inconsistent nomenclature should definitely be added to my "things that make us a rage in our game" thread.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 2, 2017 12:57:10 GMT -6
Like when "fly" refers to a motion, a route, and a play.
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Post by coachchambers on Nov 2, 2017 14:19:41 GMT -6
Man I love kool-aid, but I must say Tang is still better. And a White Visor is the only way to go, I mean you can wear it like 4 different ways how cool is that? You guys sure love dogging on kiffin dontcha
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Post by coachcb on Nov 2, 2017 15:34:29 GMT -6
Buying a system gives you more than a playbook. You get resources on practice planning, drills, game planning, and folks to contact to troubleshoot with week to week. We can all get our hands on a playbook but those playbooks don't teach us how to coach the system; they're just diagrams on paper. Buying a system does.
A team in this state ran their own version of the "spread" for awhile and got the chit kicked out of them. They paid for the Mazzone system and went on a run of semi-final runs and championship appearances for five years. Their HC moved on, they started running their own "spread" again and their program went right back into the tank.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 3, 2017 6:02:57 GMT -6
Man I love kool-aid, but I must say Tang is still better. And a White Visor is the only way to go, I mean you can wear it like 4 different ways how cool is that? You guys sure love dogging on kiffin dontcha low-hanging fruit.
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Post by jtimmerman53 on Nov 3, 2017 6:21:52 GMT -6
I think there are some very good points in this thread about how many coaches miss the point of buying a system from someone else. It's not about the actual plays but instead it's about providing an organized structure to everything you do from your nomenclature to your practice schedule to your off season routines. If you're in a program with a smaller staff I would think getting a proven system would be a great idea because now that eliminated much of the leg work of how to organize everything and you can focus more on just coaching your kids.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 3, 2017 6:43:15 GMT -6
I'm sure that's a big part of the reason that many wholesale offensive changes are successful, purchased system or not. You went from having an offense that didn't work, so the bar is low, and you put in the effort to start from scratch, presumably creating a useful structure along the way, and you haven't yet had years of tinkering to make a mess of it.
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