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Post by ogre5530 on Oct 5, 2017 4:59:54 GMT -6
Has anyone ever used something like this after the season is over going into the offseason? I'm just thinking ahead of ways to get kids fully invested into the offseason and some sort of document/pledge/card that we can hang onto to remind them as we progress. We have a team coming back that is loaded with Jr's and bringing up sophs that are having a great year. We haven't been very good over the last 10 years or so, so anything that we can get prepared with as we wrap up this season will be a help. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 5, 2017 9:14:42 GMT -6
That sounds so cheesy. I mean painfully cheesy, corny, tacky, awful. It might even work though? Kids are weird.
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Post by fantom on Oct 5, 2017 9:24:13 GMT -6
It's unenforceable so I wouldn't do it.
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Post by carookie on Oct 5, 2017 9:26:22 GMT -6
I used to work for a coach who had a "commitment contract" he kept posted on his wall; similar to what you are referring to. It didnt really make a difference.
If a kid is going to choose to not be there to work out and put in the effort, then pointing to a signed card isn't going to sway him or motivate him to be more invested in the program.
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 5, 2017 9:51:07 GMT -6
Has anyone ever used something like this after the season is over going into the offseason? I'm just thinking ahead of ways to get kids fully invested into the offseason and some sort of document/pledge/card that we can hang onto to remind them as we progress. We have a team coming back that is loaded with Jr's and bringing up sophs that are having a great year. We haven't been very good over the last 10 years or so, so anything that we can get prepared with as we wrap up this season will be a help. Thanks in advance! I’ve done stuff like that and I don’t think it helped much. We even did it on Google Forms one year so the kids could just fill it out online. I think they make kids think. But we had players who made statement that they’d make 80% of the wt lifting sessions for example. Or come to Team camp and then they simply had excuses. Like a post mentioned above unless it’s enforceable it’s meaningless. Unless you’re using it as a gauge of commitment heading into the next year.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 5, 2017 10:34:43 GMT -6
I've seen it done before and one of two things happen. Most of the kids fill out the card and turn it in to keep you off of their back but a few refuse to do so because they see it's not enforceable.
Personally, I like "commitment charts". A large chart is put up in the weight room that lists the kids in the rows and dates in the columns. Each day, you write put a check in the box for a kid that lifted or participated in another sport or two checks in the box for kids that did both. It serves as a good visual reminder for kids that aren't putting in much time in the off-season. We had a few parents that were p-ssed off about it one year but the administration backed us because we considered participating in another sport on the same level as hitting the weights.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 5, 2017 11:07:42 GMT -6
I took over a program that did commitment cards and end of the season exit interviews and end of the season questionnaires. So when I took over I got all of that great info and promptly threw it all away. There was a reason that the job was open, they hadn't been successful in the last 83 years so we got rid of all that excessive crap and let them worry about football during football season and the rest of the year they can play other sports, go on dates with girls and live their lives.
My advise is give the kids 4 months off of any football talk or weight room stuff, let them wrestle and play basketball. Kids don't want to think about the next season right after the season ends, in fact kids usually don't want to worry about football until after baseball and track are over, so why would you ask for a commitment to something they aren't even focused on? Leave them alone, let them play as many sports as they can and be invested completely in the present and you will see more refreshed and better players when it comes back to football season. Then when it gets to March or April, get them back into the weight room if they don't already have a weights class and start lifting and developing a base of strength.
Also I would check with some of your Juniors on what they want to do in the off-season, check for what they want to be about, check what goals they have for the future and develop your off-season with the idea that you can only do as much stuff based upon the efforts that the kids are willing to give. I have found that doing less, but focusing on the level of intensity, commitment and effort during that thing is the most important. My philosophy has changed to one of GET IN - GET YOUR CHIT DONE AND GET OUT, and in my experience kids love it they love being able to come in Mon - Wed - Fri and lift and practice for 2 hours in the morning over the summer and then being done. So they can get summer jobs or do whatever they want the rest of the day.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 5, 2017 12:44:07 GMT -6
I took over a program that did commitment cards and end of the season exit interviews and end of the season questionnaires. So when I took over I got all of that great info and promptly threw it all away. There was a reason that the job was open, they hadn't been successful in the last 83 years so we got rid of all that excessive crap and let them worry about football during football season and the rest of the year they can play other sports, go on dates with girls and live their lives. My advise is give the kids 4 months off of any football talk or weight room stuff, let them wrestle and play basketball. Kids don't want to think about the next season right after the season ends, in fact kids usually don't want to worry about football until after baseball and track are over, so why would you ask for a commitment to something they aren't even focused on? Leave them alone, let them play as many sports as they can and be invested completely in the present and you will see more refreshed and better players when it comes back to football season. Then when it gets to March or April, get them back into the weight room if they don't already have a weights class and start lifting and developing a base of strength. Also I would check with some of your Juniors on what they want to do in the off-season, check for what they want to be about, check what goals they have for the future and develop your off-season with the idea that you can only do as much stuff based upon the efforts that the kids are willing to give. I have found that doing less, but focusing on the level of intensity, commitment and effort during that thing is the most important. My philosophy has changed to one of GET IN - GET YOUR CHIT DONE AND GET OUT, and in my experience kids love it they love being able to come in Mon - Wed - Fri and lift and practice for 2 hours in the morning over the summer and then being done. So they can get summer jobs or do whatever they want the rest of the day. What do you do with kids who don’t play basketball or wrestle?
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Post by chidesta on Oct 5, 2017 15:38:07 GMT -6
I took over a program that did commitment cards and end of the season exit interviews and end of the season questionnaires. So when I took over I got all of that great info and promptly threw it all away. There was a reason that the job was open, they hadn't been successful in the last 83 years so we got rid of all that excessive crap and let them worry about football during football season and the rest of the year they can play other sports, go on dates with girls and live their lives. My advise is give the kids 4 months off of any football talk or weight room stuff, let them wrestle and play basketball. Kids don't want to think about the next season right after the season ends, in fact kids usually don't want to worry about football until after baseball and track are over, so why would you ask for a commitment to something they aren't even focused on? Leave them alone, let them play as many sports as they can and be invested completely in the present and you will see more refreshed and better players when it comes back to football season. Then when it gets to March or April, get them back into the weight room if they don't already have a weights class and start lifting and developing a base of strength. Also I would check with some of your Juniors on what they want to do in the off-season, check for what they want to be about, check what goals they have for the future and develop your off-season with the idea that you can only do as much stuff based upon the efforts that the kids are willing to give. I have found that doing less, but focusing on the level of intensity, commitment and effort during that thing is the most important. My philosophy has changed to one of GET IN - GET YOUR CHIT DONE AND GET OUT, and in my experience kids love it they love being able to come in Mon - Wed - Fri and lift and practice for 2 hours in the morning over the summer and then being done. So they can get summer jobs or do whatever they want the rest of the day. What do you do with kids who don’t play basketball or wrestle? Nothing -- not a dang thing, just make sure they are in a weights class if you can get them into one and let them have that time off. Then when Baseball and Track come along push for them to one of those. The beauty of track is anyone can be on the track team, it will help with keeping their grades up and keeping them involved. Now I will say that my younger self would kick my older self square in the balls if he heard me say this stuff, but for us it's proven to work. Before I was the guy trying to get kids lifting right after the season, setting max lifts and stuff. However, now it's better, it's better for me as a coach i can coach other sports and still be involved with the kids, but it isn't an entire year of me dragging kids into the weight room to lift. I will say that I do open up the weight room for a kid if he wants to lift before or after school and I will get a handful of kids who come in and do that, but it isn't something I really push. And to that point when you start doing that where you push them into other sports outside of the football season even if they don't do it the first year, usually they will come back next year and say hey coach I think I'm going to wrestle this year, because the last year they got kind of bored during wrestling season.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 5, 2017 16:40:56 GMT -6
I may play ball next fall, but I will never sign that.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Oct 5, 2017 16:51:34 GMT -6
Bob Ladouceur did this at De La Salle. Each player would make three commitments: A practice one, a game one, and a S/C one. Each player had a partner, and their job was to make sure their teammate followed through on their commitment. Seems to have worked out pretty well for them.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 6, 2017 8:17:25 GMT -6
Bob Ladouceur did this at De La Salle. Each player would make three commitments: A practice one, a game one, and a S/C one. Each player had a partner, and their job was to make sure their teammate followed through on their commitment. Seems to have worked out pretty well for them. No they do Goal cards, commitment cards are different. We do goal cards during the season and they work out really well. But how are you supposed to do a goal card in December or January or February? "Yes coach my practice goal for this week is to uh not practice, cause we are not in season so I will check with you at the end of the week coach and let you know if I fulfilled my practice goal."
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 6, 2017 8:40:39 GMT -6
What do you do with kids who don’t play basketball or wrestle? Nothing -- not a dang thing, just make sure they are in a weights class if you can get them into one and let them have that time off. Then when Baseball and Track come along push for them to one of those. The beauty of track is anyone can be on the track team, it will help with keeping their grades up and keeping them involved. Now I will say that my younger self would kick my older self square in the balls if he heard me say this stuff, but for us it's proven to work. Before I was the guy trying to get kids lifting right after the season, setting max lifts and stuff. However, now it's better, it's better for me as a coach i can coach other sports and still be involved with the kids, but it isn't an entire year of me dragging kids into the weight room to lift. I will say that I do open up the weight room for a kid if he wants to lift before or after school and I will get a handful of kids who come in and do that, but it isn't something I really push. And to that point when you start doing that where you push them into other sports outside of the football season even if they don't do it the first year, usually they will come back next year and say hey coach I think I'm going to wrestle this year, because the last year they got kind of bored during wrestling season. And what would you do if your weights class only has produced 3 kids in a school of 380 that can squat 300lbs?
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Post by silkyice on Oct 6, 2017 8:55:01 GMT -6
Nothing -- not a dang thing, just make sure they are in a weights class if you can get them into one and let them have that time off. Then when Baseball and Track come along push for them to one of those. The beauty of track is anyone can be on the track team, it will help with keeping their grades up and keeping them involved. Now I will say that my younger self would kick my older self square in the balls if he heard me say this stuff, but for us it's proven to work. Before I was the guy trying to get kids lifting right after the season, setting max lifts and stuff. However, now it's better, it's better for me as a coach i can coach other sports and still be involved with the kids, but it isn't an entire year of me dragging kids into the weight room to lift. I will say that I do open up the weight room for a kid if he wants to lift before or after school and I will get a handful of kids who come in and do that, but it isn't something I really push. And to that point when you start doing that where you push them into other sports outside of the football season even if they don't do it the first year, usually they will come back next year and say hey coach I think I'm going to wrestle this year, because the last year they got kind of bored during wrestling season. And what would you do if your weights class only has produced 3 kids in a school of 380 that can squat 300lbs? Get your tail kicked on Friday nights.
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Oct 6, 2017 9:11:17 GMT -6
Bob Ladouceur did this at De La Salle. Each player would make three commitments: A practice one, a game one, and a S/C one. Each player had a partner, and their job was to make sure their teammate followed through on their commitment. Seems to have worked out pretty well for them. No they do Goal cards, commitment cards are different. We do goal cards during the season and they work out really well. But how are you supposed to do a goal card in December or January or February? "Yes coach my practice goal for this week is to uh not practice, cause we are not in season so I will check with you at the end of the week coach and let you know if I fulfilled my practice goal." #pedantics? easy goal would be to say I want to squat X amount of lbs by the end of February
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Post by chidesta on Oct 6, 2017 9:26:11 GMT -6
Nothing -- not a dang thing, just make sure they are in a weights class if you can get them into one and let them have that time off. Then when Baseball and Track come along push for them to one of those. The beauty of track is anyone can be on the track team, it will help with keeping their grades up and keeping them involved. Now I will say that my younger self would kick my older self square in the balls if he heard me say this stuff, but for us it's proven to work. Before I was the guy trying to get kids lifting right after the season, setting max lifts and stuff. However, now it's better, it's better for me as a coach i can coach other sports and still be involved with the kids, but it isn't an entire year of me dragging kids into the weight room to lift. I will say that I do open up the weight room for a kid if he wants to lift before or after school and I will get a handful of kids who come in and do that, but it isn't something I really push. And to that point when you start doing that where you push them into other sports outside of the football season even if they don't do it the first year, usually they will come back next year and say hey coach I think I'm going to wrestle this year, because the last year they got kind of bored during wrestling season. And what would you do if your weights class only has produced 3 kids in a school of 380 that can squat 300lbs? I am assuming you are not the weights teacher? So I would talk with the weights teacher(s) and talk about some of the goals you have for your football players in that class, but I mean something is better than nothing. For me I would much rather have my kids playing other sports during the off-season so I don't want to give them any excuse not to participate in other sports. As far as what I care about it is Power Clean and that's the only number I track, now we squat but we don't track that number. If a kid can Power Clean 225 then he is usually a pretty good football player, I mean if you think about it at your size of school you will only face a couple of kids a year that are bigger than 225 on the field. So if you can get 8 to 10 kids PO Cleaning close to 225 then those are probably all of your starters on both sides of the ball. (I am assuming that they play both sides of the ball) With that being said if you start around April you can get kids to that 200 to 225 mark by the beginning of the season. Ya know they may come in PO cleaning 135 and by the end of June get up to 185 then sit there for a while and eventually by August they can get to the 200 mark, but your Seniors will usually end up at around 225 by the beginning of the season. I have spent sometime researching explosive lifts and combining some of those with the more traditional Squat and Bench and I have found that kids need a basis of strength from those heavy lifts, but they usually lack quickness and speed, which you develop through Hang Cleans, Power Cleans and Push Press. So for me Power Cleans and Push Press are what we focus on.
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Post by carookie on Oct 6, 2017 10:38:36 GMT -6
Bob Ladouceur did this at De La Salle. Each player would make three commitments: A practice one, a game one, and a S/C one. Each player had a partner, and their job was to make sure their teammate followed through on their commitment. Seems to have worked out pretty well for them.Correlation and causation. Just because they did something, and were subsequently successful, doesn't mean that the thing caused the success. Otherwise those cut-off hoodies I have would have got me more wins.
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Post by scotdaking on Oct 6, 2017 16:44:29 GMT -6
You can always set goals. There is no more off season. Doesn't anyone want to be great? ReceiveRS can begin a 10,000 ball club where they chart the number of catch attempts from January to June. Reward those who complete the task of charting daily catch attempts of any ball (Tennis ball, football, ping pong ball) with a ceremony and shirt and membership to the club. Make it fun. Keep it football centric. Challenge those that want to be elite players with an off season program that works. For my recieveRS that doesn't include playing baseball or wrastlin.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Oct 6, 2017 21:16:48 GMT -6
Correlation and causation. Just because they did something, and were subsequently successful, doesn't mean that the thing caused the success. Otherwise those cut-off hoodies I have would have got me more wins. Definitely agree with you. Wasn't saying it's the reason behind their success, but in his book, he pointed out how the cards were a way of having teammates holding each other accountable and strengthening the team's bond
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Post by carookie on Oct 6, 2017 21:19:28 GMT -6
Correlation and causation. Just because they did something, and were subsequently successful, doesn't mean that the thing caused the success. Otherwise those cut-off hoodies I have would have got me more wins. Definitely agree with you. Wasn't saying it's the reason behind their success, but in his book, he pointed out how the cards were a way of having teammates holding each other accountable and strengthening the team's bond And in that case they may have been successful- not so much on the field wins but teaching accountability.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Oct 6, 2017 21:26:49 GMT -6
No they do Goal cards, commitment cards are different. We do goal cards during the season and they work out really well. But how are you supposed to do a goal card in December or January or February? "Yes coach my practice goal for this week is to uh not practice, cause we are not in season so I will check with you at the end of the week coach and let you know if I fulfilled my practice goal." He calls them commitment cards because you're making the commitment to your teammates to follow through. I think you can do off season S/C goals. Making commitments like: "I promise to increase my squat total by x amount of pounds" or "I promise to run gassers three days a week." Obviously, you'd have to adjust them for the offseason, but it could help as far as accountability with the offseason program.
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Post by chidesta on Oct 9, 2017 8:37:23 GMT -6
You can always set goals. There is no more off season. Doesn't anyone want to be great? ReceiveRS can begin a 10,000 ball club where they chart the number of catch attempts from January to June. Reward those who complete the task of charting daily catch attempts of any ball (Tennis ball, football, ping pong ball) with a ceremony and shirt and membership to the club. Make it fun. Keep it football centric. Challenge those that want to be elite players with an off season program that works. For my recieveRS that doesn't include playing baseball or wrastlin. Alright let me get this straight you want to take your WR's and do some sort of 10,000 ball club catch club and say that this is fun and exciting and challenging. Here is the deal it doesn't become fun and exciting just because you say that it is fun and exciting, it actually needs to be fun and exciting. I know that you think that charting stuff on a piece of paper all off-season is super fun, but in my experience it's not so much fun for the kids, if it was then my Fitness for Life kids would not complain about keeping track of their eating habits for a week, I can't imagine doing something like this for an entire off-season. Also you are bagging on your beloved WR's playing Basketball, but you want to put them into a 10,000 catch a ball club and give them a shirt at the end of it all, cause kids will do just about anything to get a free shirt right? Well does catching a basketball count in your 10,000 ball club? Why not just have them play basketball and then baseball because where I am from they catch balls in both those sports and guess what they can get a free shirt and have a ceremony and you don't have to organize it for them.
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Post by coachmonkey on Oct 9, 2017 10:06:38 GMT -6
I want all of my football players playing 3 sports. The research for this is there, which is why most successful college coaches are not looking for 1 sport football players these days. As one of my college coaches said, give me a football player he can play one position. Give me an athlete and he can play multiple positions on either side of the ball.
How would you feel if your school had a solid basketball program or any other sports team and they were telling kids not to play football? I would think in this day and age most other sports are at least getting their kids in the weight room 2 days per week.
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Post by Coach Vint on Oct 9, 2017 11:38:05 GMT -6
The best thing I have found is to have accountability of some sort in the off-season. We encourage kids to play all sports, but all kids lift. Lifting is good for kids in all sports, and we adjust the workouts for kids in another sport. We lift four days a week. The workouts take less than 40 minutes. We then have an overtime period one or two days a week where they lift an extra 20 minutes. Kids in other sports don't do the overtime lift, and their workout takes about 20 to 25 minutes. They lift 2 or 3 days a week depending on their game schedule. Other coaches benefit from our lifting the kids, because a stronger more athletic kid is going to be better at every sport they play. Our coaches in other sports all lift their kids here, so they handle their workout. At other places this hadn't been the case.
We want everyone to participate in track. At one school I was at we required every single kid, who didn't play baseball, to go to track practice. The kids that would never run in meets and the kids who were throwers did a 30 minute workout. The athletes and skill guys all did a 45 minute workout. 15 minutes was stretching and flexibility. 15 minutes was starts and form running. The final 15 to 25 minutes was training everyone on running a 400. The distance kids did a distance workout. Hurdlers, jumpers, and relays stayed to work their specialty for 15 minutes.
As far as building a program in the off-season, charting gains is vital. We reward the biggest increases, not the most weight. There are kids that have great genetics and will always lift in your top 15%, but if they don't work hard they will not increase. We charted attendance and increases. Those were the two things we rewarded. We also found that kids who show up tend to have bigger increases than kids who don't show up.
When they lifted we required great technique. If you didn't get to parallel on parallel squat, the rep doesn't count. We didn't let little things go. Coach them on everything, and hold them accountable to small details. Have different competitions with winners and losers. Find ways to build them into a family, where they depend on each other and they feel responsible for the man next to them.
We used to give them time off. The problem was, when they get in the habit of going home when the bell rings it is hard to get them to start staying when the bell rings. Kids are habitual. We built a habit that we will be here for an hour after school. The parents rarely had an issue with it because their son was being supervised. We did have a few kids with conflicts here and there, and we worked those on a case-by-case basis. Most of our kids hang around until we leave. Many get rides home from coaches each day. This is not a bad thing, as it gives us time to build relationships away from the field and weight room.
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