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Post by coachtua on Oct 4, 2017 8:52:30 GMT -6
THE GAME IS CHANGING...(not necessarily for the better)
At Army and Navy Academy (HS I coach at) we as a staff are trying to change the culture of the program. For many years the Academy has been a door mat for it's league and division in playoffs. The change in culture begins with a change in attitude and style of play. Teams we faced our first 2 seasons got the usual soft, scared of contact, undisciplined cadets. This year is different. Our boys are starting to figure it out. We preach to our athletes to play hard, hit harder, but to do it within the rules of the game. We coach, and more importantly teach our young men to play, with integrity. These are the basic pillars of our program philosophy.
We are trying to teach our boys how to play the game safely. We teach tackling fundamentals that keep the head out of the tackle. We teach our defenders to target the ball carriers legs. Aiming point is the thigh pads of the near leg with your near shoulder. We teach to drive through the tackle. This is the way we were taught at Oceanside, and this is the way we teach our athletes. Anyone who has played against one of Coach John Carroll's (Oceanside High School, my HS coach and mentor) teams can attest, you more than likely would be sore after the game. We teach our athletes to hit your ball carrier so hard that they don't want to handle the rock anymore.
After a recent game the opposing Head Coaches exchanged post game pleasantries. Their HC called our boys out for playing maliciously and HITTING HIS PLAYERS TOO HARD. Since when in our game did it become OK to say you hit my players too hard. The game is under enough scrutiny and is being attacked from the outside plenty enough that we don't need to destroy it from within as well.
If the hits to your ball carriers were late or illegal then you would have an argument. But the hits were legal and for you to come at it from the standpoint of we hit you too hard is unacceptable.
Sorry for the long post but I need to stand up for my players.
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Post by dubber on Oct 4, 2017 8:56:58 GMT -6
THE GAME IS CHANGING...(not necessarily for the better) At Army and Navy Academy (HS I coach at) we as a staff are trying to change the culture of the program. For many years the Academy has been a door mat for it's league and division in playoffs. The change in culture begins with a change in attitude and style of play. Teams we faced our first 2 seasons got the usual soft, scared of contact, undisciplined cadets. This year is different. Our boys are starting to figure it out. We preach to our athletes to play hard, hit harder, but to do it within the rules of the game. We coach, and more importantly teach our young men to play, with integrity. These are the basic pillars of our program philosophy. We are trying to teach our boys how to play the game safely. We teach tackling fundamentals that keep the head out of the tackle. We teach our defenders to target the ball carriers legs. Aiming point is the thigh pads of the near leg with your near shoulder. We teach to drive through the tackle. This is the way we were taught at Oceanside, and this is the way we teach our athletes. Anyone who has played against one of Coach Carroll's (local legend, my HS coach and mentor) teams can attest, you more than likely would be sore after the game. We teach our athletes to hit your ball carrier so hard that they don't want to handle the rock anymore. After a recent game the opposing Head Coaches exchanged post game pleasantries. Their HC called our boys out for playing maliciously and HITTING HIS PLAYERS TOO HARD. Since when in our game did it become OK to say you hit my players too hard. The game is under enough scrutiny and is being attacked from the outside plenty enough that we don't need to destroy it from within as well. If the hits to your ball carriers were late or illegal then you would have an argument. But the hits were legal and for you to come at it from the standpoint of we hit you too hard is unacceptable. Sorry for the long post but I need to stand up for my players. I'm guessing you won? Coaches are never rational after a game.....grain of salt it and move on |
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Post by coachtua on Oct 4, 2017 9:01:55 GMT -6
THE GAME IS CHANGING...(not necessarily for the better) At Army and Navy Academy (HS I coach at) we as a staff are trying to change the culture of the program. For many years the Academy has been a door mat for it's league and division in playoffs. The change in culture begins with a change in attitude and style of play. Teams we faced our first 2 seasons got the usual soft, scared of contact, undisciplined cadets. This year is different. Our boys are starting to figure it out. We preach to our athletes to play hard, hit harder, but to do it within the rules of the game. We coach, and more importantly teach our young men to play, with integrity. These are the basic pillars of our program philosophy. We are trying to teach our boys how to play the game safely. We teach tackling fundamentals that keep the head out of the tackle. We teach our defenders to target the ball carriers legs. Aiming point is the thigh pads of the near leg with your near shoulder. We teach to drive through the tackle. This is the way we were taught at Oceanside, and this is the way we teach our athletes. Anyone who has played against one of Coach Carroll's (local legend, my HS coach and mentor) teams can attest, you more than likely would be sore after the game. We teach our athletes to hit your ball carrier so hard that they don't want to handle the rock anymore. After a recent game the opposing Head Coaches exchanged post game pleasantries. Their HC called our boys out for playing maliciously and HITTING HIS PLAYERS TOO HARD. Since when in our game did it become OK to say you hit my players too hard. The game is under enough scrutiny and is being attacked from the outside plenty enough that we don't need to destroy it from within as well. If the hits to your ball carriers were late or illegal then you would have an argument. But the hits were legal and for you to come at it from the standpoint of we hit you too hard is unacceptable. Sorry for the long post but I need to stand up for my players. I'm guessing you won? Coaches are never rational after a game.....grain of salt it and move on You would think, but no we lost 21-14. The opposition has beaten us pretty soundly the first 2 years we have been with this program. |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2017 9:28:23 GMT -6
The possibility of picking up a concussion is certainly changing the way the game. It's good in many ways as some poor techniques are no longer being taught (i.e. leading with the facemask when tackling and blocking) but we are seeing it take some of the aggressiveness of our players this year. One of our nastiest defensive players picked up a concussion during the second game of the season and he hasn't been the same since he has been back. It is evident that he is concerned about getting another concussion and possibly not being able to play basketball or do track.
Right now, four kids that would be starting for us didn't come out for football as they are terrified of being concussed and losing out on the rest of their high school sports. It has hurt us in a huge way. But, it is what it is and we have no control over it.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Oct 4, 2017 10:54:11 GMT -6
A ref in one of our early season games told my TE "ease up, you dont have to hit him so hard" after 3 straight plays. The TE was down blocking to the MLB. No malicious intent, just a good hard block on a LB that was preoccupied with trying to find the football and not playing aggressively. led with his shoulder into the MLBs shoulder/chest and finished with his hands, knocked the kid down 3 times.
It seems as though a lot of people are trying to take the physicality out of the game. I can agree with taking out the more dangerous practices such as leading with the facemask on tackles(as mentioned above), etc but the physicality is what makes the game special and beautiful.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 4, 2017 11:00:58 GMT -6
Several years ago we were flagged for excessive tackling on a play. 😳
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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2017 11:23:56 GMT -6
The concussion issue is affecting the officiating as well. The officials have some liability in these situations as they can be sued it appears as if they're not protecting the players and someone gets hurt. But, it's going overboard in a big way. One of our tackles buried a kid on a simple reach block last weekend and we were warned that he would be flagged if he didn't "lay off". The blocks were clean, the DE obviously wasn't "defenseless" and our guy was just doing a great job.
I asked the officials what he would be flagged for and he told me they'd hit him with a personal foul for unnecessary roughness if it continued to happen. I then asked then to show me where it stated he was committing this penalty in the handbook. He couldn't back it up so he stated that it was a case of "targeting". Again, I asked him to show me how the defender was "defenseless".
His response: "WELL, HE'S PRETTY DEFENSELESS WHEN HE'S BEING DRIVEN INTO THE GROUND BY YOUR GUY!"
I told him that the game was being filmed and that he'd better be able to back up his call if I sent it up to the state for review. He continued to maul the DE and we didn't get a flag.
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Post by carookie on Oct 4, 2017 11:51:47 GMT -6
Ha, I congratulated another team in the handshake line a couple weeks ago for their physicality and how hard they hit. Iron sharpens iron, aint nothing wrong with hitting hard.
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Post by seabass on Oct 4, 2017 11:55:26 GMT -6
I coach 8th grader's so my perspective is a little different but our kids are the next generation of HS football player's.
I have had 2 really weird things happen in our games this year. Our first game opponent quit at the half. The official came to me with :45 left in the 2nd quarter and requested that we take a knee to end the half. The opposing coach had already informed him that they would not be playing the second half. I asked why and he told me the other coach was afraid his player's were going to get hurt.
Last week I had an official ask me if it was necessary for our guy's to be hitting as hard as they were. I asked him if we were too high with our targets or if we had guys late to the pile etc.. He said we were all clean but we could get the job done with less force.
Both of those were a first for me.
Several coaches have stated that maybe the emphasis on safety has made the game softer...or made their player's hesitant. That could definitely be true in some cases. We decided to address the safety issue by becoming as fundamentally sound as we could be. IMO, that has actually made our kids more physical but in a safer way.
I admit I bought in to Coach Carroll's stuff late BUT last year we went all in. We used pieces of hawk tackling before but we (our coaches) were all brought up in the "bite the ball" method and that was hard to shake. Once we started getting the head behind and implemented ALL of Coach Carroll's stuff, we actually became more violent than we ever were before.
As an 8th grade coach, I believe my job is to create the most fundamentally sound player's I can so that's where we spend our time and 1/3 of our practice time is dedicated to tackling...from the first practice to the last. Our kids have become so confident that their head is out of the tackle, even our "worst" players are pretty violent tacklers.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Oct 4, 2017 12:04:49 GMT -6
Coach weve had refs tell our 8th grade kids to ease up on several occasions. Its easy to get physical mismatches between teams and players at that level so I understand the protective nature of refs but when my pulling guard is hitting a DE that's larger than him and the ref is telling him "theres no need for all that" because he knocked him down weve got a problem. Tell the DE to man up or get off the field
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 4, 2017 12:17:57 GMT -6
Along these lines, several years ago in a JV game, we had a ref penalize our slot receiver for "blocking the kid to the ground." Now, it wasn't a crack that now is I think against the rules if you lead with the shoulder; our WR got his hand inside and literally and simply blocked the kid to the ground...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 12:18:25 GMT -6
Any blind side block in this state is now flagged literally ANY from as close as 2 feet away
Had a go-ahead score recalled 2 weeks ago on a peel back by a wide receiver, not even a voilent one
Recalled the touchdown and everything killer was that if he didn't make that block he would have got tackled by the kid anyway
Could be a game changer in a situation where the clock comes into play
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Post by seabass on Oct 4, 2017 12:29:26 GMT -6
Coach weve had refs tell our 8th grade kids to ease up on several occasions. Its easy to get physical mismatches between teams and players at that level so I understand the protective nature of refs but when my pulling guard is hitting a DE that's larger than him and the ref is telling him "theres no need for all that" because he knocked him down weve got a problem. Tell the DE to man up or get off the field I totally agree! I have been in plenty of games where there were a lot of physical mismatches as well...on the good side and the bad side of the mismatch...I get that. The tackle that drew the comment from the official came from our 120# SS against a much bigger FB. Our guy's only chance was to be as physical as he could be. |
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Post by Down 'n Out on Oct 4, 2017 12:33:46 GMT -6
That's one of the things I dislike the most about all this. For a lot of players physicality is all they've got, take that away and the biggest/fastest/strongest win every time.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Oct 4, 2017 12:45:47 GMT -6
Last week a buddy was flagged 3 times for hitting a defenseless player on guard trap.
Was a JV squad, but still
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