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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Sept 12, 2017 6:07:47 GMT -6
Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is "Pepe the Frog"? An internet meme, it's safe to Google, but I would recommend safe search just in case. The internet is a dark place when you start getting into that stuff.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Sept 12, 2017 7:11:24 GMT -6
Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is "Pepe the Frog"? An internet meme, it's safe to Google, but I would recommend safe search just in case. The internet is a dark place when you start getting into that stuff. It was never intended to have any sort of racist meaning, but was high jacked by neo Nazis as a sort of symbol. The internet is a weird place, filled with racist frogs.
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Post by brophy on Sept 12, 2017 7:29:22 GMT -6
The black kid who plays QB .... why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others?
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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Sept 12, 2017 7:46:36 GMT -6
The black kid who plays QB .... why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others? I think you have to draw the line when it's hate towards teammates. All white team might be different, in my opinion if you can put on a KKK hood and play with an African american quarterback, you don't deserve to be recognized by either your dumba$$ online friends nor the team.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 12, 2017 8:04:49 GMT -6
The black kid who plays QB .... why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others? Because people who dress like those five kids did used to terrorize and murder black people.
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Post by bleefb on Sept 12, 2017 8:12:59 GMT -6
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 411
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Post by SconnieOC on Sept 12, 2017 8:13:59 GMT -6
The black kid who plays QB .... why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others? You're usually spot on with most things but I don't agree here.. If something is hateful, you have to address it. If a kid retweets a video about weed, they probably smoke a bit.. but you can't do much unless it's them in the video (unless you maybe have a policy in place) but once it becomes about hate, or violence, or a symbol of violence, something needs to be done about it. Where it gets really cloudy is when you get into the memes and stuff like that. Sometimes certain things mean one thing to person A, but another to person B. But when it is blatant like hoods, and burning crosses, you have to draw a line there. I'm willing to boot anyone who crosses the line on social media. We address this every year, and if our top kid did this, his a$$ would be gone. We talk about and sign conduct codes before the season. They know what's expected.
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Post by funkfriss on Sept 12, 2017 8:30:12 GMT -6
The black kid who plays QB .... why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others? To add to brophy , what if you know a kid on your team is racist? Maybe he's said a few passive agressive things in the past, flies a confederate flag on his truck and your non-white players don't like him. Kick him off? Or do you wait for him to post a picture of himself in a white hood on social media?
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Post by 19delta on Sept 12, 2017 9:00:32 GMT -6
why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others? To add to brophy , what if you know a kid on your team is racist? Maybe he's said a few passive agressive things in the past, flies a confederate flag on his truck and your non-white players don't like him. Kick him off? Or do you wait for him to post a picture of himself in a white hood on social media? Ok. I'll bite. The difference is that the kid who is displaying a Confederate flag on his truck is being passively racist. On the other hand, a kid who burns a cross in a field, brandishes a weapon, and hides behind the costume that historically was used by terrorists who brutally subjugated African Americans and other minority groups for over a century is engaging in active racism. The first kid...maybe he just needs a history lesson to learn about what the flag really means. The 2nd kid...he needs a complete deprogramming. All racism isn't equal. Kids who dress up as Klansmen and appear to joyfully revel in doing so are objectively worse than a kid who tells an occasional racist joke. Both need to be addressed, of course. But the path back from one is much longer than the path back from the other.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 12, 2017 9:11:17 GMT -6
So glad I am trying to figure out how to stop the other team's isolated d1 receiver in trips while they have two college bball prospects on the other side, instead of dealing with the confederate flag!
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Post by carookie on Sept 12, 2017 9:26:17 GMT -6
So, where does it end? If you kick them off the football team are they also not allowed to participate in basketball or any other sport? What if they are underclassmen? Never get to play again? Listen, I don't know everything in this situation and neither do any of you (at least I assume so). Further, I understand what was done was agregious, but at the same time wouldn't it be better to give these young men a chance at retribution? To redeem themselves? To learn and grow from a mistake they may have made? It's not like they're going away, they are still enrolled in the school. I agree with your premise (where does it end), but that can be made any time we institute a punishment. Often times we have to accept that the punishments we put forward are somewhat arbitrary in their severity; but that does not mean we do not have consequences at all. Just because they are not part of the football team this year, does not mean they still don't have a chance for retribution.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 12, 2017 10:45:24 GMT -6
So glad I am trying to figure out how to stop the other team's isolated d1 receiver in trips while they have two college bball prospects on the other side, instead of dealing with the confederate flag! We all have it. It just hasn't reared its head at your place yet.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 12, 2017 11:14:53 GMT -6
So glad I am trying to figure out how to stop the other team's isolated d1 receiver in trips while they have two college bball prospects on the other side, instead of dealing with the confederate flag! We all have it. It just hasn't reared its head at your place yet. Don't disagree. Just saying that I am glad I am dealing with football instead of crap.
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Post by scotdaking on Oct 13, 2017 23:46:40 GMT -6
Ahhh. This is what makes coaching so honorable. We do God's work.We never absolve ourselves of the responsibility to sharpen young men. Just as WR recognize young men didn't come out of the womb knowing how to run, catch or play cover 2 they also don't always know how to treat each other respectfully. That is where we come in. Kicking them off the team is the easy thing to do and sets a perilous precedent. Don't oust them from the family, perhaps the only family they have, and throw them to the wolves or leave them to their own devices. Grow them up. Help them understand what it means to be a productive citizen and a football player in that order. Emphasize a value centric rather than conduct centric environment. Don't burden them with rules or guidelines that are made to be broken and open you up for favoritism accusations when a star player breaks your rule but folks look the other way until a marginal player commits the same error. Emphasize values instead that speak volumes about your expectations. It is easier to enforce and its fair and clear to all. This way, if your player values bringing guns to practice or skipping conditioning to go shopping with his girlfriend or sees no value in applying himself in the classroom to avoid ineligibility, then it is clear his values may be more suitable to another venture. Time for you to go .... Hopefully determined in the off season or during pre season, early communication with the athlete. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by jlenwood on Oct 14, 2017 6:57:21 GMT -6
I typically don't like wading into public discussions like this because no matter what you say anymore, someone is going to get bent out of shape and it never seems to end well. Here is something I have noticed over the years, as it pertains to football and the kids I have coached, not talking about the broader context of society as a whole.
I have noticed and almost casual regard to tragic, nasty historical facts from some kids, and it comes from a place of ignorance. I had a camp one year and as part of the application, you had to provide social media accounts that I used to contact the players. On of the kids had a picture of himself as a Nazi, complete with a twitter handle that referenced Hitler and he was even sporting a Hitler 'stache. The strange things is when I held the camp, he was one of the hardest working kids there. I talked to someone before hand about the guy and was told he is just a knucklehead who try's to stir people up, but harmless. I was younger and probably should have engaged him about it, but I didn't (an older me would have).
Now whether that kid turned out to be a mass murderer, or just another kid who graduates, grows up and moves on I don't know. My point is he really never fully understood what a Nazi was or the unbelievably terrible things they were responsible for. I think the same thing goes for a lot of these kids today that think that way about the KKK. DO they really know what it was like for those black families to be terrorized like they were?
Who's fault is it now that we have high school kids who don't know these things. Have our school systems failed to fully teach and inform today's students about how terrible these periods of history were? Instead of just standing up and "preaching" about how bad the slave days and the period of time directly after that period were, put it into a personal perspective and focus on the plight of those effected back in the day. You can not see pictures of Auschwitz and not be emotionally effected unless you are sub-human. You cannot see a picture and hear the story of a black man hanging from a tree and not be emotionally effected.
As far as the 5 kids in the original picture, has anyone got there side of the story? I AM NOT SIDING WITH THESE KIDS SO DON"T BLAST ME FOR WANTING TO ASK THIS!!! Why in this day and age would you ever dress like that and burn a cross I don't know. However we are now dipping our toes into punishing people for their THOUGHTS, and that scares me almost as much as so called Neo-Nazis and today's Klan. The guy who showed up in a gorilla mask was expelled? That is as dumb as showing up with a gorilla mask at a BLM event. Because we presume he is making a poke at black people he is expelled?
The whole situation is sad.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 14, 2017 8:19:46 GMT -6
No one ever said Nazis were lazy...
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2017 9:00:50 GMT -6
what if you know a kid on your team is racist? according to whom? define "racist"? you guys are wading your toes in political memes for no other reason than to be a reactionary presence in the current year's topic at hand. We're forcing our players into these (temporary) ideological boxes and it serves no purpose to benefit fielding a competitive football team. Search the forum, in the history of this board, since 2005, there hasn't been a thread addressing the coaching crisis of National Anthems and "Klan rallies" until a year ago.....hmmmm, that kind of leads me to believe its all bullsheet
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 14, 2017 12:47:37 GMT -6
I typically don't like wading into public discussions like this because no matter what you say anymore, someone is going to get bent out of shape and it never seems to end well. Here is something I have noticed over the years, as it pertains to football and the kids I have coached, not talking about the broader context of society as a whole. I have noticed and almost casual regard to tragic, nasty historical facts from some kids, and it comes from a place of ignorance. I had a camp one year and as part of the application, you had to provide social media accounts that I used to contact the players. On of the kids had a picture of himself as a Nazi, complete with a twitter handle that referenced Hitler and he was even sporting a Hitler 'stache. The strange things is when I held the camp, he was one of the hardest working kids there. I talked to someone before hand about the guy and was told he is just a knucklehead who try's to stir people up, but harmless. I was younger and probably should have engaged him about it, but I didn't (an older me would have). Now whether that kid turned out to be a mass murderer, or just another kid who graduates, grows up and moves on I don't know. My point is he really never fully understood what a Nazi was or the unbelievably terrible things they were responsible for. I think the same thing goes for a lot of these kids today that think that way about the KKK. DO they really know what it was like for those black families to be terrorized like they were? Who's fault is it now that we have high school kids who don't know these things. Have our school systems failed to fully teach and inform today's students about how terrible these periods of history were? Instead of just standing up and "preaching" about how bad the slave days and the period of time directly after that period were, put it into a personal perspective and focus on the plight of those effected back in the day. You can not see pictures of Auschwitz and not be emotionally effected unless you are sub-human. You cannot see a picture and hear the story of a black man hanging from a tree and not be emotionally effected. As far as the 5 kids in the original picture, has anyone got there side of the story? I AM NOT SIDING WITH THESE KIDS SO DON"T BLAST ME FOR WANTING TO ASK THIS!!! Why in this day and age would you ever dress like that and burn a cross I don't know. However we are now dipping our toes into punishing people for their THOUGHTS, and that scares me almost as much as so called Neo-Nazis and today's Klan. The guy who showed up in a gorilla mask was expelled? That is as dumb as showing up with a gorilla mask at a BLM event. Because we presume he is making a poke at black people he is expelled? The whole situation is sad. As a history teacher, I don't believe these kids lack in any knowledge of the horrors of the Holocaust or slavery. They're beaten over the head with it, by law I might add, every year of school since they were in 2nd or 3rd grade. I think, for what it's worth, is if anything they've become desensitized to it. They know it's bad, they know why it's bad, but this is a counter movement to everyone telling them to act a certain way. I think it's also a counter movement to the movement that any white male is the devil. Don't believe that's a thing? Google white genocide.
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Post by dubber on Oct 14, 2017 14:10:09 GMT -6
I feel like this thread is teetering toward a lock......
To make a more general application here:
How do you deal with something that is not necessarily against the rules, but you get heat for it?
Do you get draconian?
Do you lean on admin for direction?
Do you say F it and do your own thing?
THAT, is where the usefulness of this thread is found.
Let's find that.....
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Post by bleefb on Nov 6, 2017 0:55:12 GMT -6
I would say in these cases you put it ALL on the Administration because they will end up making the decision anyway.
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Post by newhope on Nov 6, 2017 10:43:27 GMT -6
Our administration handles these things...it is a violation of school rules and therefore falls under the athletic code of conduct as well. They don't play on these types of situations.
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Post by theyoungballcoach on Nov 6, 2017 12:47:51 GMT -6
If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. all over a farcebook picture? I think this is more than "just a facebook picture." But ya, I wouldn't quit if they made me take them back. But they would not see the field the rest of the year. Not a snap. And I don't think mom and dad are going to win a lawsuit over playing time.
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Post by leighty on Nov 6, 2017 14:09:21 GMT -6
Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is "Pepe the Frog"? A harmless meme that has been appropriated by the Alt Right.
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