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Post by tippecanoe41 on Aug 3, 2017 21:07:50 GMT -6
I've been at coaching for about 12 years at high school. I've seen all sorts of different guys over those years. Right now I'm dealing with a couple that are particularly difficult and I haven't figured out how to handle them, so I wanted to see if someone had a bit of advice.
Being honest, I'm a guy who will scream and rant at times; I know some guys aren't. Just different styles. I really can't remember a time that I went off on a tirade that was for anything other than a terrible attitude or a total lack of effort. Not going to yell at a kid who doesn't get the job done on something as long as he's working his @$$ off to get better at it every time he tries it, you know.
I've got a couple guys right now that I'm trying to figure out. Today, we were working a drill where the main focus for OL was to make sure that we were picking up the proper guys in a pass pro situation, while obviously still trying to work good pass pro technique where we could. So, quarterback is setting up to the right, this is our protection, pick up the stunt, get in position between your guy and the QB. This kid I've had trouble with actually did a really good job of not getting sucked into chasing a guy the wrong direction and stayed home to pick up the second part of a twisting stunt that's usually tough for a guy to pick up. Only thing was once he picked the guy up, he got a bull rushed a bit.
He's new to the O-line, so I went to him and said something similar to this--"Hey, nice job, man. That's good you didn't get fooled there. That's the guy we want you to end up on." Then I just said, "Only thing I would say is one little tip because I know you haven't worked this a lot," and started to explain what to do when you start getting bull rushed. And he's got these eyes like I've just crawled in his helmet calling him every name in the book for the last 15 plays. And I'm thinking, holy cow, I made it a point to start with a compliment, what's so bad about being given a little tip when it really is something you haven't worked a lot.
My first instinct was to go on a tirade about the overly sensitive and totally defeatist attitude, but I just told him that I'm trying to make him better so don't get defensive, etc. and left it at that. I guess I'm just wondering who in this kid's life has beat him down to the point that what I started to tell him about great job, but just one tip, would be something to put eyes on him like he was a dog that had been beat too much. This has happened a couple times with the kid.
Anyway, anyone have a kid/kids like this that they can give some tips? I like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt because he is working and getting better at stuff, but he needs to know that if I talk to him calmly nit-picking things, it's not that I'm trying to be a prick, but just trying to make him better, and I don't know how to make that clear to him.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Aug 3, 2017 23:19:18 GMT -6
You've been coaching long enough to know that some guys you can scream at and some guys have to be nurtured, sounds like you were doing the right thing here. I had a kid that I quickly learned needed to be nurtured and would turtle up when I said anything that wasn't high praise. One day after practice I took him aside and told him, "I think you're going to be a helluva football player. I know you don't take criticism very well but you need to understand I'm not doing it to pick on you, I'm doing it because I want you to be the best you can be. I don't want you to think I'm a prick but I'm willing to sacrifice that if it will make you the best tackle in the division. Football is a lot like life - you're going to have mean or bad coaches, teachers, bosses, friends. You show what your made of when things don't go your way. Anybody can do a job when the boss washes his balls and never criticizes him but that's not life. So if I get on your case you need to know it's because I'm the coach and it's my job to make you better, not to make you feel warm & fuzzy. If you think I'm too hard on you, come to me after practice and we'll talk about it." I saw a noticeable change for the better in that kid. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Aug 3, 2017 23:53:43 GMT -6
You've been coaching long enough to know that some guys you can scream at and some guys have to be nurtured, sounds like you were doing the right thing here. I had a kid that I quickly learned needed to be nurtured and would turtle up when I said anything that wasn't high praise. One day after practice I took him aside and told him, "I think you're going to be a helluva football player. I know you don't take criticism very well but you need to understand I'm not doing it to pick on you, I'm doing it because I want you to be the best you can be. I don't want you to think I'm a prick but I'm willing to sacrifice that if it will make you the best tackle in the division. Football is a lot like life - you're going to have mean or bad coaches, teachers, bosses, friends. You show what your made of when things don't go your way. Anybody can do a job when the boss washes his balls and never criticizes him but that's not life. So if I get on your case you need to know it's because I'm the coach and it's my job to make you better, not to make you feel warm & fuzzy. If you think I'm too hard on you, come to me after practice and we'll talk about it." I saw a noticeable change for the better in that kid. Your mileage may vary. I like what you're saying. I'm gonna keep working at it with these guys. I can't understand this type of attitude, but the best I can do is to keep working at it and giving examples for them to understand that I'm there for them to get better and ready for many different examples. |
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Post by carookie on Aug 3, 2017 23:56:16 GMT -6
The best advice I can give my man is, "Hang in there." We can quote lots of sayings about long journeys and single steps or cities being built in single days, instead I'll just encourage you to keep at it. From what I've seen the best way to work with someone to help change their attitude is to keep working; sometimes it will seem good and sometimes it won't- keep at it.
You did the right thing and did not get the reaction you wanted, see if it is the same after the 100th time, the 1,000th time, etc. Keep doing the right thing a lot and eventually it will pay off.
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Post by freezeoption on Aug 4, 2017 6:37:59 GMT -6
Here is the thing, you can start off the season with the nuture, but you got to condition him to how you are going to be through the year and at games, because if he is going turtle up now how is it going to be when the crap hits the fan
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Post by aceback76 on Aug 4, 2017 6:58:39 GMT -6
I've been at coaching for about 12 years at high school. I've seen all sorts of different guys over those years. Right now I'm dealing with a couple that are particularly difficult and I haven't figured out how to handle them, so I wanted to see if someone had a bit of advice. Being honest, I'm a guy who will scream and rant at times; I know some guys aren't. Just different styles. I really can't remember a time that I went off on a tirade that was for anything other than a terrible attitude or a total lack of effort. Not going to yell at a kid who doesn't get the job done on something as long as he's working his @$$ off to get better at it every time he tries it, you know. I've got a couple guys right now that I'm trying to figure out. Today, we were working a drill where the main focus for OL was to make sure that we were picking up the proper guys in a pass pro situation, while obviously still trying to work good pass pro technique where we could. So, quarterback is setting up to the right, this is our protection, pick up the stunt, get in position between your guy and the QB. This kid I've had trouble with actually did a really good job of not getting sucked into chasing a guy the wrong direction and stayed home to pick up the second part of a twisting stunt that's usually tough for a guy to pick up. Only thing was once he picked the guy up, he got a bull rushed a bit. He's new to the O-line, so I went to him and said something similar to this--"Hey, nice job, man. That's good you didn't get fooled there. That's the guy we want you to end up on." Then I just said, "Only thing I would say is one little tip because I know you haven't worked this a lot," and started to explain what to do when you start getting bull rushed. And he's got these eyes like I've just crawled in his helmet calling him every name in the book for the last 15 plays. And I'm thinking, holy cow, I made it a point to start with a compliment, what's so bad about being given a little tip when it really is something you haven't worked a lot. My first instinct was to go on a tirade about the overly sensitive and totally defeatist attitude, but I just told him that I'm trying to make him better so don't get defensive, etc. and left it at that. I guess I'm just wondering who in this kid's life has beat him down to the point that what I started to tell him about great job, but just one tip, would be something to put eyes on him like he was a dog that had been beat too much. This has happened a couple times with the kid. Anyway, anyone have a kid/kids like this that they can give some tips? I like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt because he is working and getting better at stuff, but he needs to know that if I talk to him calmly nit-picking things, it's not that I'm trying to be a prick, but just trying to make him better, and I don't know how to make that clear to him. I have ALWAYS thought that the best way to change an attitude is to have consequences that result in the player losing privileges (loss of playing time, dismissal from team, etc.). Just like my Dad (a tough old Cop) told me when I was 16: "if you don't dance with the lawnmower this afternoon (I.E. cut the damned grass), I will not loan you my car to go dancing tonight"!!! Worked everytime! |
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Post by Chris Clement on Aug 4, 2017 7:33:49 GMT -6
So you're going to punish him for doing an above-average job?
To OP: maybe just a slight rephrasing-you opened the critical part with "only thing is," which (in the mind of a frightened and insecure child) can tend to undo the opening compliment. Instead maybe try "great job picking up the stunt, next step is striking the looper."
I had similar issues last season with my RBs in pass pro, they would square to the blitzer and get absolutely rocked. The day my fifth string kid took a pass pro stance and a good inside position I didn't even mention how his hands were down or how his kickslide was all kinds of screwed up, we focused entirely on the positive that he'd put himself in the first position needed to succeed.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 4, 2017 8:36:58 GMT -6
Why not sit him down and tell him "that if I talk to you calmly nit-picking things, it's not that I'm trying to be a prick, but just trying to make you better". Might be amazed at how letting him know the situation can help and stress that point all the time.
As far as punishing a kid for an attitude it would have to be a pretty big problem to get to that point. I think the example given is just a normal kid, sometimes we forget they are 15-16-17 year old kids. Maybe he has had some bad experiences in life that make him like that. Doesn't sound like he's a problem, he's at pracctice, working hard it seems, not talking back, etc. Maybe he's nervous being new to the line and doesn't want to screw up or thinks he can't make a mistake or whatever.
Sometimes just talking with a kid off the field about it can make a huge difference.
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Post by fantom on Aug 4, 2017 11:05:33 GMT -6
I've been at coaching for about 12 years at high school. I've seen all sorts of different guys over those years. Right now I'm dealing with a couple that are particularly difficult and I haven't figured out how to handle them, so I wanted to see if someone had a bit of advice. Being honest, I'm a guy who will scream and rant at times; I know some guys aren't. Just different styles. I really can't remember a time that I went off on a tirade that was for anything other than a terrible attitude or a total lack of effort. Not going to yell at a kid who doesn't get the job done on something as long as he's working his @$$ off to get better at it every time he tries it, you know. I've got a couple guys right now that I'm trying to figure out. Today, we were working a drill where the main focus for OL was to make sure that we were picking up the proper guys in a pass pro situation, while obviously still trying to work good pass pro technique where we could. So, quarterback is setting up to the right, this is our protection, pick up the stunt, get in position between your guy and the QB. This kid I've had trouble with actually did a really good job of not getting sucked into chasing a guy the wrong direction and stayed home to pick up the second part of a twisting stunt that's usually tough for a guy to pick up. Only thing was once he picked the guy up, he got a bull rushed a bit. He's new to the O-line, so I went to him and said something similar to this--"Hey, nice job, man. That's good you didn't get fooled there. That's the guy we want you to end up on." Then I just said, "Only thing I would say is one little tip because I know you haven't worked this a lot," and started to explain what to do when you start getting bull rushed. And he's got these eyes like I've just crawled in his helmet calling him every name in the book for the last 15 plays. And I'm thinking, holy cow, I made it a point to start with a compliment, what's so bad about being given a little tip when it really is something you haven't worked a lot. My first instinct was to go on a tirade about the overly sensitive and totally defeatist attitude, but I just told him that I'm trying to make him better so don't get defensive, etc. and left it at that. I guess I'm just wondering who in this kid's life has beat him down to the point that what I started to tell him about great job, but just one tip, would be something to put eyes on him like he was a dog that had been beat too much. This has happened a couple times with the kid. Anyway, anyone have a kid/kids like this that they can give some tips? I like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt because he is working and getting better at stuff, but he needs to know that if I talk to him calmly nit-picking things, it's not that I'm trying to be a prick, but just trying to make him better, and I don't know how to make that clear to him. Maybe I'm missing something. Did the kid actually do anything or did you just not like the look in his eyes? |
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Post by dubber on Aug 4, 2017 11:45:31 GMT -6
You've been coaching long enough to know that some guys you can scream at and some guys have to be nurtured, sounds like you were doing the right thing here. I had a kid that I quickly learned needed to be nurtured and would turtle up when I said anything that wasn't high praise. One day after practice I took him aside and told him, "I think you're going to be a helluva football player. I know you don't take criticism very well but you need to understand I'm not doing it to pick on you, I'm doing it because I want you to be the best you can be. I don't want you to think I'm a prick but I'm willing to sacrifice that if it will make you the best tackle in the division. Football is a lot like life - you're going to have mean or bad coaches, teachers, bosses, friends. You show what your made of when things don't go your way. Anybody can do a job when the boss washes his balls and never criticizes him but that's not life. So if I get on your case you need to know it's because I'm the coach and it's my job to make you better, not to make you feel warm & fuzzy. If you think I'm too hard on you, come to me after practice and we'll talk about it." I saw a noticeable change for the better in that kid. Your mileage may vary. This. Nothing gets results like building a relationship with the player. |
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Post by joe83843 on Aug 5, 2017 22:51:58 GMT -6
This is why I always spent a bunch of time and energy building a relationship with my position group, and also why I preferred subbing 7-9th grade. When the kids have been seeing you for 3-6 years straight and know you care about them/you're coaching them hard because you know how great they can be, this kind of stuff generally is less of a problem.
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Post by aceback76 on Aug 6, 2017 7:37:28 GMT -6
I've been at coaching for about 12 years at high school. I've seen all sorts of different guys over those years. Right now I'm dealing with a couple that are particularly difficult and I haven't figured out how to handle them, so I wanted to see if someone had a bit of advice. Being honest, I'm a guy who will scream and rant at times; I know some guys aren't. Just different styles. I really can't remember a time that I went off on a tirade that was for anything other than a terrible attitude or a total lack of effort. Not going to yell at a kid who doesn't get the job done on something as long as he's working his @$$ off to get better at it every time he tries it, you know. I've got a couple guys right now that I'm trying to figure out. Today, we were working a drill where the main focus for OL was to make sure that we were picking up the proper guys in a pass pro situation, while obviously still trying to work good pass pro technique where we could. So, quarterback is setting up to the right, this is our protection, pick up the stunt, get in position between your guy and the QB. This kid I've had trouble with actually did a really good job of not getting sucked into chasing a guy the wrong direction and stayed home to pick up the second part of a twisting stunt that's usually tough for a guy to pick up. Only thing was once he picked the guy up, he got a bull rushed a bit. He's new to the O-line, so I went to him and said something similar to this--"Hey, nice job, man. That's good you didn't get fooled there. That's the guy we want you to end up on." Then I just said, "Only thing I would say is one little tip because I know you haven't worked this a lot," and started to explain what to do when you start getting bull rushed. And he's got these eyes like I've just crawled in his helmet calling him every name in the book for the last 15 plays. And I'm thinking, holy cow, I made it a point to start with a compliment, what's so bad about being given a little tip when it really is something you haven't worked a lot. My first instinct was to go on a tirade about the overly sensitive and totally defeatist attitude, but I just told him that I'm trying to make him better so don't get defensive, etc. and left it at that. I guess I'm just wondering who in this kid's life has beat him down to the point that what I started to tell him about great job, but just one tip, would be something to put eyes on him like he was a dog that had been beat too much. This has happened a couple times with the kid. Anyway, anyone have a kid/kids like this that they can give some tips? I like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt because he is working and getting better at stuff, but he needs to know that if I talk to him calmly nit-picking things, it's not that I'm trying to be a prick, but just trying to make him better, and I don't know how to make that clear to him. Out of season we spend classroom time on Leadership developmernt, Character development, etc. We have motivational speakers, videos, etc. That helps! We TRY to get all that worked out BEFORE the season starts! Here is one of our handouts: A T T I T U D E “The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company . . . a church . . . a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past . . . we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude . . . I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you . . . we are in charge of our attitudes.” |
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Post by 54695469 on Aug 6, 2017 8:48:41 GMT -6
That's groundbreaking stuff, right there.
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Post by coachphillip on Aug 6, 2017 10:57:13 GMT -6
Continue to be consistent and fair. Let him know that you're there for him and that you'll be consistent and fair. Eventually, he'll learn you're there to build him up, not tear him down. Just have a talk with him about accepting criticism. That's something we all deal with for the entirety of our lives. That's a more important lesson than picking up loopers. You're on the right track, coach. Keep it going.
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Post by 54695469 on Aug 6, 2017 22:05:20 GMT -6
Read a book about changing your programs culture. There are coaches all over the place who no longer face attitude problems because they spent so much time in the off-season changing their programs culture.
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Post by scotdaking on Oct 9, 2017 11:32:06 GMT -6
Look in the mirror. It is not what you think you are that counts. It is what your players and coaches perceive you to be that matters. If you are perceived by players as a screamer or nitpicker then that is what you are. If you don't like being perceived that way then change it and not in an off season classroom setting or by pulling a kid off to the side for a one on one talk about how helpful you really want to be. That's weird and the kids know it. They are very perceptive. If you speak one way in a classroom session and another way on the field kids will develop a perception. If you want to exact change do so in the same environment where the bad perception of you was conjured up. If all else fails, coach. Instead of the lip service on how ineffective the kid pass blocks the bull rush, set up the drill. Teach by demonstrating, not telling or yelling, the technique used by his favorite NFL O lineman to counter the bull rush. I teach taking another bite. That stuff is real. If you really want to him to get better improve his skill set. Talk is talk or as Tuko said in the Eastwood movie "If you're gonna shoot, shoot don't talk."
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