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Post by Coach Bruce on Jan 10, 2007 13:07:55 GMT -6
I will be coaching my sons Flag team this season. They are 6,7,8 years old. I want to play EVERYONE.....it is 8 man so I can start 8 on O and 8 on D......thats how I want to do it. I know that is not our best shot at winning. I will be coaching a team of 12,13,14 year olds this year and have no prob with playing my best both ways and using my subs as need be. But these are just babes and I want to instill fun and a love of the game. Some one tell me that I am right please. Losing burns a hole in my gut with my big boys but thses young ones ...they are different. Advice? Please..and by the way...thank all of you who helped me with plays and playbooks for my big boys....That is why I came here for your advice because I know that you guys are first rate. What say ye?
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Post by superpower on Jan 10, 2007 13:14:32 GMT -6
I agree with you: Instill fun and a love of the game. That will be the best result for those kids.
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Post by brophy on Jan 10, 2007 13:19:13 GMT -6
how many coaches do you have?
What is wrong with having two teams essentially, so you are two-deep or more at every position? "Blue team" and "White Team" (or whatever)........instead of calling it 1st and 2nd team.
Johnny is "Blue Team" OT and "White Team" DT Billy is "White Team" OT and "Blue Team" DT.......
that way the kids can play both sides of the ball...........just start "White team" on Defense for the 1st half, then the second half is for "Blue Team"..........
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Post by jacket4life on Jan 10, 2007 13:23:04 GMT -6
Couldn't agree more. Good Luck with the parents though. Best response to a complaining parent, IMHO: "We could always use a little more help, why don't you come ou to our next practice??" Many times that will stop the griping, since they won't spend any time helping out!
I have no interest in doing what you're doing, but I have done clinics in some of the communities I've coached in for kids that age. You may consider running your practices for the year like a clinic. Work on a particular set of skills with all the kids each practice, give them a base of fundamental knowledge for the future. On game day, let 'em have fun! You'll be surprised, I think. If you show them some fundamentals, they'll probably win a few games. If they have a lot of natral talent, they'll probably win a lot of games. Kind of like other age groups!! LOL
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Post by jacket4life on Jan 10, 2007 13:23:48 GMT -6
brophy's idea is an excellent one, I think.
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Post by knighter on Jan 10, 2007 13:25:32 GMT -6
Brophy, oh ye of vast wisdom.
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Post by spartancoach on Jan 10, 2007 14:40:16 GMT -6
The only think I disagree with is looking at the 12-14 year olds as the "big boys." They are still young kids where having fun and instilling the love of the game is more important than winning. The trick is to instill the thrill of "competing like a winner" while still making sure that EVERY kid plays and has fun. Just my two cents.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 10, 2007 14:53:51 GMT -6
Bottom line when working with middle school and younger- if the kid practices than he plays. You gotta set ego aside with the youth level and make sure everyone is playing. You have to teach the kids the fundamentals of the game and teach them to love the game. All wins aside, if those two things aren't accomplished than you haven't done your job as a coach at that level.
Honestly, it's not that tough to go out and win ball games while playing all of the kids. I love coaching middle school and youth football because you truly can "out coach" your opponents week in and week out. I coached youth league football this year and started and played every single kid on our the team. I did so even when facing opposing teams that only played their best kids- and beat them. We didn't have an exceptional amount of talent, in fact we had a lot of 5th graders (no contact football experience).We really emphasized fundamentals on both sides of the ball, coached the kids up and it showed on game day.
While other teams spent their practice time installing a dozen different formations and plays, we were working on form blocking and ball-carrying with everyone. Most other teams spent half of their defensive time getting new offensive plays in while we repped tackling, shedding, and spilling for an hour a day.
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Post by scoopandscore on Jan 10, 2007 16:27:55 GMT -6
I agree with Spartan coach - I would use the same platoon system/ "everyone plays" with the 12-14 year oldsas well. Heck on our JV team we make sure everyone gets significant playing time as long as they have put in the work. I don't like losing more than anyone else but its the varsity season they are building to/
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Post by chorizo on Jan 10, 2007 20:08:01 GMT -6
I like Brophy's suggestion. And even the 12-14's should play. I have used this with good feed back... After fundementals and walk throughs, scrimmage. That goes a long way for the kids as far as the love of the game. For the parents, I tell them "Jimmy plays twice a week when we scrimmage. Come out at 430 and you'll see him play for 20 minutes". Usually when a parent watches how his kid plays compared to the others, they understand why he doesn't play a lot in games"
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jan 10, 2007 21:01:16 GMT -6
I apologize guys. I wasn't specific enough. I play all of my "big boys" and play them alot....but my horses play more. Everyone see's significant time but my flag guys..I have 16 of them and it is 8 man so I can start every single player. However that definitely is not conducive to winning. You see I work for Mental Health and many of the parents of the children I work with think highly of me (smiles). They signed their kids up to be on my team. This provides me with half of my team having ADHD and ADD and OCD and the like. Now you see the dilema? I want to play these guys who have no clue what a football is even after a year of teaching. They look off into space during the game and don't move during the plays rather they chase butterflies and watch the clouds. Problem is I love the guys and want to play them. It may be the best memory some of them have of their childhoods.
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Post by knighter on Jan 10, 2007 21:21:54 GMT -6
Play them anyway. Ya never know when they are going to figure it out, AND you never know who might just develop...
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jan 10, 2007 22:54:45 GMT -6
Wonderful...thank you. Just wanted to know that I was not alone in my thinking. I know the parents and other coaches are gonna villify me. I'm gonna do it my way.
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Post by brophy on Jan 10, 2007 23:40:45 GMT -6
I apologize guys. I wasn't specific enough. I play all of my "big boys" and play them alot....but my horses play more. Everyone see's significant time but my flag guys..I have 16 of them and it is 8 man so I can start every single player. However that definitely is not conducive to winning. You see I work for Mental Health and many of the parents of the children I work with think highly of me (smiles). They signed their kids up to be on my team. This provides me with half of my team having ADHD and ADD and OCD and the like. Now you see the dilema? I want to play these guys who have no clue what a football is even after a year of teaching. They look off into space during the game and don't move during the plays rather they chase butterflies and watch the clouds. Problem is I love the guys and want to play them. It may be the best memory some of them have of their childhoods. don't pat yourself too hard on the back there... Just teach the game. If you go 0-10 or 10-0........WHO CARES? If it isn't for state titles or National Championships, no one cares, and if someone DOES care what the win loss record of a 12 year old team is, they have their priorities distorted. All it takes to make a 0-10 youth team 10-0 is ONE transfer student. 1) Teach the game. 2) Instruct each player on fundamentals and safety. 3) be positive - give each kid a purpose 4) be a mentor / role-model. That is ALL you can do and 1-4 satisfy EVERY reason those kids and their parents are supporting youth football. sorry, but it had to be said.
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jan 11, 2007 8:37:53 GMT -6
Well, you are half correct. 1-4 will satisfy me and my boys..it will far from satisfy 95% of my parents. Perhaps our rec league is different that yours. Our parents are savage and on more than one game last year were near riot status. So if I do it MY way I will pat myself pretty well. It will be a long few months in my home with the visits I will get and the verbal abuse that my son will take. Anyway, thanks for the advice and help. The Blue and White team approach is great and hopefully we can pull it off. As for the 10-0 or 0-10 I think I made myself clear that I do not care about that and was willing to sacrifice wins to play all of my boys so I am not sure where that came from. That is where the problem is gonna come from, the parents seem to care about nothing but wins and make it violently clear. Just wanted some confirmation from you guys, (guys who know much more than I) that sacrificing wins for the sake of getting all of my kids in was acceptable to more than just me.
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Post by joboo59 on Jan 11, 2007 8:49:56 GMT -6
Play them all coach. Take the losses. Winning will come with time and effort, knowledge of the game. If a player lines up thirty yards downfield use it as a learning experience, that is why those kids are there, to learn. If a parent has a problem with it explain that it is the right thing to do, do not allow the parents to dictate the conversation, take control of it and tell them how things are being done. Trust me on that one, I learned the hard way. I've lost many JV games because every player had to play in the game, not equally, but needed to see some time. As long as the player is making practice, he is going to play regardless.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 11, 2007 9:00:24 GMT -6
Sure don't have all of the answers but you have to listen to your gut and not anticipate unhappy parents who will be unhappy no matter what you decide to do. If you start listening to them, you are no longer the coach - just a figurehead. Make it VERY clear with them that you are always open to their input regarding treatment of their sons, but the positions and playing time (however you decide on this) is your realm.
With your older kids, if you decide on a development philosophy to start the season, make sure you are still doing this at the end of the season. We do this with our 9th grade program at my high school. Some parents are very upset with this because they think we could go undefeated instead of finishing 4 and 4. I asked them who won the Freshman championship the year before and they can't offer an answer. The majority of our parents are good about letting us do our job and understand a bigger picture but you'll have to educate them a little bit.
As a H.S. coach (or 25 years) I see huge developmental changes with players between 9th and 12th grade. Some get better and some don't and get passed up by those who once backed them up. With young kids, you don't want to discourage any of them with minimal playing time because we just never know how they might pan out. Obviously, playing time must be earned with excellent effort so there should be some kind of a criteria.
Make it fun, keep it simple and teach the hell out of skills, sportsmanship and a team concept. Also, Meet with your youngsters and develop some team rules (you guide them) and have some rules that are specific to parents. Then share your parent policies with the parents that came from the team. I did this when I coached my son's little league baseball team and it was very powerful to tell parents that the kids don't want you screaming at umpires, the kids want you to cheer and bring good snack and to get them to practices and games on time. I once had a group of kids who told parents that only the players could bring up the game in the car ride home, not the parent. Kids hate that drive in some cases.
Of the kids who played on this team, all but 1 is still involved with baseball and this is 8 years later. To me, that is success.
Good luck!
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Post by coachcb on Jan 11, 2007 9:09:00 GMT -6
Well, you are half correct. 1-4 will satisfy me and my boys..it will far from satisfy 95% of my parents. Perhaps our rec league is different that yours. Our parents are savage and on more than one game last year were near riot status. So if I do it MY way I will pat myself pretty well. It will be a long few months in my home with the visits I will get and the verbal abuse that my son will take. Anyway, thanks for the advice and help. The Blue and White team approach is great and hopefully we can pull it off. As for the 10-0 or 0-10 I think I made myself clear that I do not care about that and was willing to sacrifice wins to play all of my boys so I am not sure where that came from. That is where the problem is gonna come from, the parents seem to care about nothing but wins and make it violently clear. Just wanted some confirmation from you guys, (guys who know much more than I) that sacrificing wins for the sake of getting all of my kids in was acceptable to more than just me. As long as you're playing all the kids and treating them well, the parents don't have a viable b-tch about anything. The 1st parent that complains about winning/losing with younger kids is going to get shot down, hard and fast.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 11, 2007 9:20:00 GMT -6
Coach CB Wrote "Bottom line when working with middle school and younger- if the kid practices than he plays. You gotta set ego aside with the youth level and make sure everyone is playing. You have to teach the kids the fundamentals of the game and teach them to love the game. All wins aside, if those two things aren't accomplished than you haven't done your job as a coach at that level." AMEN Brother
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Post by spartancoach on Jan 11, 2007 10:24:00 GMT -6
Make your philosophy clear right up front. When I did coach youth teams 12-14, I told all of the parents at a pre-season parent meeting that my priorities as a coach were (1) keep everyone safe and healthy; (2) teach the game to every player; and (3) win. I told them that if any of the parents had different priorities, they should put their kid on a different team. There will always be problem parents, but that parents' meeting headed off a fair amount of potential parent problems.
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jan 11, 2007 10:55:00 GMT -6
Thank you guys. I appreciate the words of wisdom and they will be utilized.
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Post by angryman27909 on Jan 13, 2007 2:40:41 GMT -6
try this: i have coach ADD/ADHD kids for awhile and i have learned to not be surprised by what they can recall. I coach them very very fast, as fast as i can talk and move. This gets them excited and helps them to focus on what you're saying. repeat specific rules 3 times then move on. Drill the hell out of them then recap. If u set go good drills they will be tired by then and better able to hear u talk normally. Oh and please dont not be affraid to be disciline.
play all the kids winning here is about developing teamwork and better social skills, seeing them overcome disappointments controling emotions and respecting others.
i need to write this, my boys was 0-9 this year but after reminding myself of the intributes that they needed, i see we had a highly successful year.
exercise fast discipline frim love alot
in that order that my method of ADD/ADHD kids
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jan 13, 2007 11:45:21 GMT -6
I hear ya angryman....and thanks. The more advice the better!
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 13, 2007 13:38:24 GMT -6
play them all but try to win the games. if you want kids to stick with football then they have to feel like they are reasonably good at it. those of you who think winning doesnt matter to middle schoolers and below would do well to ask those kids. sure, not all kids are competitive, those that arent probably wont stick with it anyhow. bottom line, winning matters to those kids. but that doesnt mean sitting the stiffs on the bench the whole time either. they play to have fun, they play to win, they play to be with their friends, they play to please adults...teach them the game and make it fun...but coach to win. just my two cents. I have done it both ways at the ms level...the "everyone plays the same amount" did not work for me at all as we lost a bunch of games we would have won easily so a bunch of kids gave up the game sighting 'we suck"...now, while coaching to win and playing the hardest workers...the numbers grow every year because kids want to play for a winner. the answer in there somewhere is balance and common sense. a kid who works hard and comes to practice needs to get a reward there somewhere. for those lil types just learning the game, play them all and dont sweat the scores too much. but middle school...yeah, you have to try to win.
try to win by"
haveing great fundamentals teaching the rules of the game, name of positions and assignment responsibilities make it a team effort get the most out of the least, everyone has a role choose a system that fits level of play win with sportsmanship and class lose the same way be a teacher and motivator, for the game and life
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