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Post by funkfriss on May 8, 2017 11:56:07 GMT -6
A couple examples for you:
1. We have a DL who is a stud but can be a little uncoachable at times. He doesn't think he has to use his hands and get extension because he's able to plow through and make many plays without good technique. He doesn't realize how much BETTER he could be with good hand striking and extension.
2. We had an extremely athletic kid playing corner. He was able to get away with poor eye discipline and technique because he had great "makeup" speed. This worked 90% of the time, but he would get burned a couple times a year. Could've easily been a shutdown guy that erased one part of the field had he worked harder to get BETTER.
What are some strategies you use to get your best players who don't "need" to get better perform better? Neither of these players were bad kids, they just didn't believe they needed to pay attention to details because they were already good enough. I don't really want to hear about benching them because frankly there wasn't anyone in the same zip code so it would be ludicrous to replace them with the next guy.
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Post by tothehouse on May 8, 2017 12:08:21 GMT -6
Throwing this out there.
If you are preaching "full speed" and "effort" to the whole team...then you bump them out of a drill, etc. and/or call them out.
And yes...you can replace them. Maybe it's a play or two. Doesn't have to be a complete "firing".
If you're asking the question and want answers...then those dudes need to buy in like the rest of the squad.
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Post by larrymoe on May 8, 2017 12:11:39 GMT -6
I think you point out, to the extreme, what happens when they use bad technique on film and also what happens when they use good technique. Make sure they know what they're doing wrong when they get owned and make sure you point out why they're successful when they use good technique.
Certainly make sure your coaching staff doesn't praise them for making a play solely based on athleticism. Make sure praise is only used for proper technique or the message you want to convey.
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Post by fantom on May 8, 2017 12:13:18 GMT -6
Throwing this out there. If you are preaching "full speed" and "effort" to the whole team...then you bump them out of a drill, etc. and/or call them out. And yes...you can replace them. Maybe it's a play or two. Doesn't have to be a complete "firing". If you're asking the question and want answers...then those dudes need to buy in like the rest of the squad. But he didn't say that effort is the problem. |
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Post by tothehouse on May 8, 2017 12:16:56 GMT -6
Effort is the problem. If they aren't giving their best...that isn't their best effort.
Seems like coach wants them to play better. I'm saying...push effort on them in a drill (like you would to all players).
Try to clean up the mistakes in a drill...make sure that carries to the team portion of practice and hopefully into games.
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Post by spos21ram on May 8, 2017 12:23:01 GMT -6
Effort is the problem. If they aren't giving their best...that isn't their best effort. Seems like coach wants them to play better. I'm saying...push effort on them in a drill (like you would to all players). Try to clean up the mistakes in a drill...make sure that carries to the team portion of practice and hopefully into games. Maybe effort to use the proper technique, but according to the OP it's not a lack of effort in the sense of going all out, full speed, and wanting it. |
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Post by fantom on May 8, 2017 12:23:17 GMT -6
A couple examples for you: 1. We have a DL who is a stud but can be a little uncoachable at times. He doesn't think he has to use his hands and get extension because he's able to plow through and make many plays without good technique. He doesn't realize how much BETTER he could be with good hand striking and extension. 2. We had an extremely athletic kid playing corner. He was able to get away with poor eye discipline and technique because he had great "makeup" speed. This worked 90% of the time, but he would get burned a couple times a year. Could've easily been a shutdown guy that erased one part of the field had he worked harder to get BETTER. What are some strategies you use to get your best players who don't "need" to get better perform better? Neither of these players were bad kids, they just didn't believe they needed to pay attention to details because they were already good enough. I don't really want to hear about benching them because frankly there wasn't anyone in the same zip code so it would be ludicrous to replace them with the next guy. I think that you need to sell them on the idea that they're not just trying to be the best player on your team or even the best player in the conference. I assume that they have aspirations to make some noise in the playoffs and to play college football. Tell them that to do that they'll need to compete and beat athletes that are at least as good as they are and that won't happen with crappy technique. To reinforce the point get them to a college camp so they can see what it's like to compete with other studs. |
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Post by funkfriss on May 8, 2017 13:06:40 GMT -6
Effort is not a problem with either of these cases or others that come to mind. If you want to say they lack effort to learn and apply, maybe, but I would equate it this way:
You are a young head coach who has had a successful career thus far. You have won your conference the past two seasons and made a good run in the playoffs last season losing to the eventual state champions in the semis. Another successful veteran coach stops you one day and says, "Coach, I know you're having a lot of success doing what you are doing, but I think you would have won at least one championship if you had done _____________."
What would make you take the advice to heart and make the change? How would you know it was going to make you and your team better? What if you tried it and it didn't work the first season, would you stop doing it?
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Post by wingtol on May 8, 2017 14:36:02 GMT -6
Effort is not a problem with either of these cases or others that come to mind. If you want to say they lack effort to learn and apply, maybe, but I would equate it this way: You are a young head coach who has had a successful career thus far. You have won your conference the past two seasons and made a good run in the playoffs last season losing to the eventual state champions in the semis. Another successful veteran coach stops you one day and says, "Coach, I know you're having a lot of success doing what you are doing, but I think you would have won at least one championship if you had done _____________." What would make you take the advice to heart and make the change? How would you know it was going to make you and your team better? What if you tried it and it didn't work the first season, would you stop doing it? What are you doing that he thinks you should change and what did he say you should change to? 99.9% of the time I'd tell him _ off to be honest... |
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Post by Defcord on May 8, 2017 16:27:38 GMT -6
I am a believer in repitition. We had a recent example similar to this in baseball. Our team has had five head coaches in five years and our seniors had lost confidence in coaching in general. One of our kids was fielding the ball deep between his legs. I mentioned it to him a couple times and he kind of shrugged it off because he made the play. The problem was that he had been pretty inconsistent because of poor mechanics. Instead of keeping on harping the point and discussing it with him I just put him through a drill series in pre practice that emphasized fielding the ball in front. After three or four weeks he was much better at it without even realizing it.
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Post by rosey65 on May 9, 2017 9:19:39 GMT -6
I dont think that punishing the kid for bad technique is a very effective way to drive home a point, especially in the long run.
Tell him everything you posted in the OP. He's good, he's the best on the field, and everyone knows it. Often, these kids have the same insecurities as the kids who dont even come out...his way works, he doesnt want to try something else and risk failure. Keep teaching the techniques. Coach his technique. Praise him when he does things correctly. And also praise him when he blows thru a doubleteam and pulls the RB down by his shoulder pad. He's an insecure HS kid, even if he plays like he's 20. If he has any aspirations of playing at the next level, he'll buy in with encouragement and coaching.
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Post by fantom on May 9, 2017 10:51:56 GMT -6
A couple examples for you: 1. We have a DL who is a stud but can be a little uncoachable at times. He doesn't think he has to use his hands and get extension because he's able to plow through and make many plays without good technique. He doesn't realize how much BETTER he could be with good hand striking and extension. 2. We had an extremely athletic kid playing corner. He was able to get away with poor eye discipline and technique because he had great "makeup" speed. This worked 90% of the time, but he would get burned a couple times a year. Could've easily been a shutdown guy that erased one part of the field had he worked harder to get BETTER. What are some strategies you use to get your best players who don't "need" to get better perform better? Neither of these players were bad kids, they just didn't believe they needed to pay attention to details because they were already good enough. I don't really want to hear about benching them because frankly there wasn't anyone in the same zip code so it would be ludicrous to replace them with the next guy. Every player at every level is a work in progress. The skills that you mention in your examples are two of the most common technical flaws for those positions. If you read the writeups on even some of the most highly regarded draft prospects you'll see those problems mention s lot. Talk to NFL position coaches and they'll tell you that even established players sometimes have those same issues. Of course it doesn't happen as often or those guys wouldn't be in the NFL but it happens. Keep at it. Be patient but persistent. Hell, if every kid was perfect we wouldn't need to have practice every day. |
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Post by Coach Vint on May 10, 2017 10:00:18 GMT -6
There is never a player who doesn't need to get better. Everyone needs to get better. The biggest enemy we face is comfort. This is where coaching comes in.
Do you let it go when he does it wrong? Or do you coach him? Do you have individual drills that focus on the DL using his hands, and the corner having eye discipline?
Drill your DL on his feet, pad level, punch, and separation. Teach the skill, correct the rep, and do it again and again. When he does it wrong he has to hear exactly what he did wrong and how to correct it. When he does it right tell him exactly what he did right. Remind him that we are not competing to beat the guy across from us in practice. We are working hard to be our best, and to be able to beat the #1 OL in the country we will see in the fourth round of the playoffs.
The easy thing to do is to "let an good athlete be an athlete." While there is merit to this, why not coach them to be a great athlete with great technique? It is hard. It requires confrontation. It requires discomfort. But it is the only way to push an athlete to be their best.
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Post by eaglemountie on May 13, 2017 14:45:19 GMT -6
I think you find their weaknesses in the off-season and pre-season and challenge them to become the best they can in those areas...
This coming season we have three very talented running backs that can do it all with the ball in their hands... Their blocking is average at best, so we are going to challenge them this year to be the best blocking group on the team and only grade them out on their blocking performance...
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Post by 53 on May 13, 2017 20:54:33 GMT -6
I generally think we some times focus too much on our best players at the cost of the team.
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Post by fantom on May 13, 2017 21:18:49 GMT -6
I generally think we some times focus too much on our best players at the cost of the team. So your answer to the question would be...? |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 13, 2017 21:42:40 GMT -6
I generally think we some times focus too much on our best players at the cost of the team. Interesting. I would think the opposite is more true. Coaches spend too much time on the other guys, and kind of hope the best players can manage themselves when it comes to things like technique. |
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Post by dubber on May 14, 2017 5:49:43 GMT -6
Kids need to see the why.
Then, if these are good kids who care about the team, you can begin to make process.
All your DT knows right now is he makes plays with his style....what he doesn't see is how that style kills your run fits when he doesn't make the play, leaving his linebackers in a bad place.
You've probably told him that, but have you shown him correct form in a game situation vs his bad plays?
Corner the same thing. Goalies with 90% success rates get fired.....
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Post by funkfriss on May 15, 2017 7:58:01 GMT -6
I generally think we some times focus too much on our best players at the cost of the team. Interesting. I would think the opposite is more true. Coaches spend too much time on the other guys, and kind of hope the best players can manage themselves when it comes to things like technique. This describes me exactly. I feel like I do a really good job with those that are not the top players. Those guys see noticeable improvement consistently and while this helps the team I feel like I need to do a better job of coaching up our best players and squeezing that little bit of juice out of em. |
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Post by pitt1980 on May 15, 2017 9:29:10 GMT -6
couple ideas -
1) I think you should try and create a vision for what sort of players they might become if they're able to pick up the coaching points you're trying to give them
what's their ceiling if they're both a great athlete and have great technique?
Is there a kid that's been through your program in the past and achieved impressive things that he could also achieve? Is there a guy at one of the local colleges that he looks up to, a pro?
I think it should be somewhat realistic in terms of someone they can conceivably resemble
can you go through youtube and put together a montage of them doing things the way you'd like your guy to do it (obviously that's some labor on your part), but sometimes, if you can give a vision of what could be, that can be really motivating for a guy
2) I think you should do your best to impart, that the best guys set the tone for the rest of the team, the other kids are watching him, when they see the best guy not just settling for what gets him by, they'll follow his lead, leading by example can be a powerful thing
3) to the degree to which its realistic, I think you should introduce global goals, if he's a realistically recruitable kid, talk to him about taking pride in every play that's put on film, "hey someone else is going to look at this, they're betting their career on whether he should give a scholarship to you, or some other kid a state away who you've never met, what's good enough to beat the kid across from you might not be good enough look better than that kid a state away, moreover, even if you do get the scholarship, when you show up, you'll be better off if you've already been working on your technique for a while, etc etc"
If there's a college that they'd really like to be recruited by, there might video somewhere of the position coach teaching technique
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I think you should do your best to preserve the concept that you're not full of {censored}, if this kid's one of the best players on the team, you might as well acknowledge it, you might as well also acknowledge that because he's the best, the day to day feedback of needing to have good technique to succeed will be different for him than it will be for other kids, and that's actually a challenge for him to overcome to achieve all the things he's capable of achieving
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Post by pitt1980 on May 15, 2017 9:36:08 GMT -6
I generally think we some times focus too much on our best players at the cost of the team. I'm sure every place and every coaching staff is different, but I think I actually agree with this
Your best players are usually almost inherently engaged with what you're doing, that's not always the case for your fringe around edges guys
I think there's often a lot of hay to be made investing effort into making sure those guys are engaged
seems like an obvious law of diminishing returns situation
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Post by 53 on May 15, 2017 20:16:27 GMT -6
I generally think we some times focus too much on our best players at the cost of the team. So your answer to the question would be...? I don't have any great answer. I like lots of individual and small group time during my practice and less team team reps. Which hopefully after enough emphasis during practice, it becomes a habit. |
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Post by scotdaking on Oct 15, 2017 10:48:33 GMT -6
Kudos first of all for recognizing even the ballers need coached up. Secondly, encourage them to think in terms of the long run or how the great ones understand the need to have a plan B, C and even D. Eventually everyone on the field is fast and strong. Finally. and in part because I always look in the mirror first, find a way to say something or teach something that resonates. Maybe they listen and conclude you have nothing substantive to teach. Good luck.
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Post by coachtuck on Oct 16, 2017 8:38:05 GMT -6
We had/have a WR like this his last year he was a threat purely from the standpoint that he’s 6’3” but he never really tried hard or applied himself to get better he sorta kinda coasted, took him to a 7 on 7 camp this year so he was going against some of the best kids in the state, couldn’t even get off the press at the line it was a real eye opener for him, told him that the kid who shut him down plays on the best team in our class and he’ll do it again come October, safe to say the kid came into the summer a completely new person along with growing up he took getting better more seriously once he seen that the kids that eat and breath football don't care who you are, turned himself into a team captain and leads the state in receiving yards as a junior right now, any changes that need to be made have to start with the kid wanting to improve
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 16, 2017 9:01:58 GMT -6
A couple examples for you: 1. We have a DL who is a stud but can be a little uncoachable at times. He doesn't think he has to use his hands and get extension because he's able to plow through and make many plays without good technique. He doesn't realize how much BETTER he could be with good hand striking and extension. 2. We had an extremely athletic kid playing corner. He was able to get away with poor eye discipline and technique because he had great "makeup" speed. This worked 90% of the time, but he would get burned a couple times a year. Could've easily been a shutdown guy that erased one part of the field had he worked harder to get BETTER. What are some strategies you use to get your best players who don't "need" to get better perform better? Neither of these players were bad kids, they just didn't believe they needed to pay attention to details because they were already good enough. I don't really want to hear about benching them because frankly there wasn't anyone in the same zip code so it would be ludicrous to replace them with the next guy. 1 Year-Around Dvelopment Program, 2. IN-SEASON: A thousand fold repetition of a few simple techniques! |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 16, 2017 11:41:47 GMT -6
Throwing this out there. If you are preaching "full speed" and "effort" to the whole team...then you bump them out of a drill, etc. and/or call them out. And yes...you can replace them. Maybe it's a play or two. Doesn't have to be a complete "firing". If you're asking the question and want answers...then those dudes need to buy in like the rest of the squad. Arguably our best DT spent the first part of the season riding the pine because he wasn't coachable. He'd use some goofy four point stance where he'd fall forward, stand straight up and struggle. He wouldn't use his hands; he was always trying to throw a flipper and shoulder or just run through the line. He'd still managed to maul some people doing so but we sat him until he started being coachable. His dad threw an absolute fit over it (screaming in the stands at us, making phone calls, etc..etc...) but I told him that his kid wouldn't see the field until he started listening. It was a fight for a few weeks but the kid decided that he'd rather play than be a Rebel-Without-A-Clue and now he's on the field for us. I caught him reverting back to his old ways in the first quarter of this last game so I pulled him out and sat him on the bench for a quarter. Here's the issue; this kind of chitty free-lancing technique out of your studs may get the job done for them but it won't work for less talented players. More kids will stop listening and stop being coachable if you continue to play the studs who aren't being fundamentally sound. Right now, we do have a couple of CBs that are athletic and getting away with crap technique and I would LOVE to bench them. Unfortunately, it is a safety issue as their "back-ups" are tiny freshmen and sophomores who'd get absolutely destroyed physically if they played on a Friday night. I tried to sub in one of these smaller guys two weeks ago after a starter severely p-ssed me off and but the younger player was flat on his back for most of a series so I either had to pull him or let the EMTs know they'd better be ready for CPR. |
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