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Post by ogre5530 on Jan 21, 2008 15:08:08 GMT -6
What are your thoughts on having football players workout year-round while possibly playing other sports such as baksetball, wrestling, baseball, track, ect? I was in a situation where the head coach didn't require football players to workout if they played another sport. He said they were working out in their respective sport, but in reality they were lucky to lift 1-2 times a week, if that. I feel those athletes are at a huge disadvantage strength-wise if they aren't lifting all year long. I thought that might have something to do with mediocre seasons at the school. I played at a small high school and our coaches had us lifting all year long and I thought that was the reason for the school's success (deep playoff runs, state championship). I've done enough rambling here and I want to see what the consensus is here...
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Post by superpower on Jan 21, 2008 15:50:38 GMT -6
We encourage all of our players to be 3 sport athletes, but we also highly recommend that all of our football players enroll in a weight lifting class. We can't require the lifting class, but we do have 100% of our players enrolled. We want our guys getting bigger, faster, and stronger year round.
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trojan
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Post by trojan on Jan 21, 2008 15:52:17 GMT -6
My opinion has to do with their level of competitiveness in that other sport. A kid who places in wrestling tournaments or at track meets is keeping mentally sharp and in good physical shape. Now, if he rides the pine for the basketball team, or is one of those kids that just shows up to track practice, then missing the weight room is likely hurting him. If I could go back to high school, however, my @$$ would be in the weight room the entire off-season.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2008 16:10:44 GMT -6
Personally, I think the benefits of playing another sport outweigh the disadvantages of not lifting. That being said, any athlete, regardless of the sport, should be on a weight training program IMO.
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Post by Yash on Jan 21, 2008 16:40:57 GMT -6
While ideally you want your kids working out as much as possible, here is what you have to look at. If the basketball coach was having Billy shoot 100 free throws a day during football season would you be happy? Now I know free throws aren't real hard work, but the point is, if other sports were having your kids do their workouts during your seas how would you feel. While I think you should encourage all athletes to work out, you can't require it and all you can really do is encourage it. But you can't force it on them becasue you wouldn't want another coach invading on your season.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 21, 2008 16:51:19 GMT -6
IF you want to land the HC job youd better support the idea of multi sport athletes...you need to find a way to motivate kids to lift even though they are involved in other sports. (pride points reward for playing other sports, additional points for lifting during that season ...) and youd better find a way to let the other sports coaches know that you support their sport and ask that they support yours.
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Post by ogre5530 on Jan 21, 2008 17:16:47 GMT -6
I'm all for multi-sport athletes...Let's not get that confused. It just seemed to me in the situation I was in that the HC didn't seem like it was that important to do it year around. The other sports in the school that I observed didn't have structured in-season workout regiments. There was also no opportunity for multi-sport athletes to come in during the morning to get the appropriate instruction and training. I guess I am just too concerned for Billy Athlete not lifting from December-June and then in September we wonder why so and so is so weak...
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Post by schultbear74 on Jan 21, 2008 20:14:24 GMT -6
I don't think that we do the kids any great service by having "my athletes" and "his athletes".
The healthy athletic programs work out a way to do what is best for OUR ATHLETES.
A good weight class for athletes takes care of a lot of things. That being said, the football coach has to be the best at sharing athletes since his is a game of numbers.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 21, 2008 21:26:46 GMT -6
The biggest challenge - as far as lifting is concerned - at our school is where should a football athlete be in his lifting as it relates to him being in the offseason vs. those who are participating in their winter sport, then those who are in spring sports?
At best, it has been a juggle. My main focus has been the off-season kids. I let the other HC's take care of their own but this isn't working out too well.
We do a great job of sharing our kids but we have some coaches who are not educated at all about strength training. For example, we have a head wrestling coach who tells football players that if they come out for wrestling (he's hard up for upper weights), they can still do the same lifting they would be doing if they didn't come out for wrestling. We pound it pretty hard and I can't see a H.S. kid who could put in a full wrestling practice and matches while juggling the type of lifting we do.
Again, the wrestling coach thinks he's doing what's best for his program but he's going to kill kids. I've told him not to have kids do this and he thinks I'm just protecting my program. Whatever.....
On the other hand, we have a track coach who allows his track boys come in and do their core lifts before going to track practice about twice weekly. Seems to work well.
What do others do who have to juggle, 1 sport, 2 sport and 3 sport athletes as it relates to their year-round training?
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Post by coachcastleman on Jan 21, 2008 21:37:47 GMT -6
I coach at a small school that has to have players play multiple sports. This is my first year there and I am sure I have stepped on toes already. If a kid is not playing another sport he is in the weight room after school three days a week. We do agility work two days a week. I am trying to get all the head coaches on board with lifting year around, which would mean in season lifting for their sport. I believe everyone would benefit. I know there are guys who are lifting on their own at home during their season because the basketball coach doesn't have them do much. One issue I have run into with kids who play football and track, but not basketball is the types of lifts. I need the guys lifting to build muscle mass and the track coach handed out workouts that specifically said not to lift for mass but rather endurance. Just one dilemma of sharing athletes.
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Post by miami5 on Jan 21, 2008 22:06:07 GMT -6
once again great question and answers. I think we all go through the same thing. In our small school most of the kids play 2 or 3 sports. The guys playing basketball do lift 2 times a week.
We try to make them lift for 30 minutes, 1 core lift, CLEANS are high priority one day heavy one light.
if you do not lift they will only go on a roller coaster ride. i have seen this happen all the time.
we try not to kill the legs because they are getting so much running and agility..
They should be lifting for strength, low reps high weight.
cleans,box squats,jerk press, etc.
heavy squats can kill your legs for a couple of days, so do them only with time for rest.
if the athletes are given a plan of recovery and nutrition they can work out hard, still plays there sport and gain strength
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Post by rideanddecide on Jan 22, 2008 6:51:36 GMT -6
Work the other coaches to get them on your side.
We "require" our in sport athletes to lift twice per week. Not perfect, but I cannot ask a basketball player to lift the day of a game. Imagine if the basketball coach told a football kid he needed to work out on Friday before a game? We need to keep that in mind. It's also important that the other coaches are good at what they do. For years I discouraged kids from playing basketball because I knew all they would do is scrimmage and learn to be lazy. Now we have a quality coach and it's good for our fb kids to work with him because he teaches focus, dedication, hard work, accountability, etc...
Finally, be careful knocking your HC. I've done this and it's not good for the program. Now I am an HC and I have a better view of everything. I still agree with the bad things I used to say (mostly just to my family--not publicly) about our old HC, but I can understand his level of thinking easier now.
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Post by k on Jan 22, 2008 15:53:32 GMT -6
Our indoor track guy is great and has both the guys and the girls in the weight room EVERY SINGLE DAY! Hell he has scheduled when our football captain's time is around the football lifting schedule so he can be there for that...
That said our basketball coach is AWFUL. No lifting above your head. No squats. Etc. The sad thing is what is allowed and what isn't changes on a day to day basis for them.
I'm glad that quite a few of our guys have quit basketball in order to play track (they didn't like the coach). I just wish that a couple others made the same call.
Sad thing is the guy probably is there as long as he wants to be... =(
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Post by rideanddecide on Jan 23, 2008 7:34:42 GMT -6
I'm guessing another part of this off season thing is when season's run and what sports are run during what season.
For us basketball is winter and there is no indoor track, only spring track. Also, soccer is a fall sport like football, but I know other states have boys spring soccer.
How does your state season schedule affect what kids can and do workout?
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 23, 2008 7:55:00 GMT -6
Honestly I don't know why as a player you wouldn't want to lift year-round. Do squats and cleans help you in football...yes. DO they help you jump higher for hoops....yes. Do they help you run faster for track....yes. There seems to be a trend here.
In-season you can't spend as much time in the wt room but in 20-30 minutes you can hit 1-2 core exercises, hit'em as hard as you can then go home or go to practice.
I currently have a sophomore football-basketball-track kid. He is in hoops season now. His squat has blown up from 275 to 350 in 10 weeks. He started the season unable to grab the rim, now he can touch it. His 75# increase in his squat is great considering he is INSEASON right now too, and often come to workout after practice in an already fatigued state. I guess it just comes down to how bad you want to get after it sometimes.
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Post by struceri on Jan 23, 2008 8:58:36 GMT -6
we have our multi-sport athletes lift at least 2-3 times per week during their other sport. It's a scaled down program similar to what we do during the in-season. We do have some kids that get after and lift four days a week and we have others that don't do anything but the majority of muli-sport kids lift 2-3 days a week.
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Post by struceri on Jan 23, 2008 12:07:20 GMT -6
I heard a speaker from a florida high school who talked about their offseason program. They require everybody to lift in the mornings before school, even multi-sport guys. He said that if a high school kid can't recover by the time practice rolled around in the afternoon they weren't good athletes anyway!
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Post by superpower on Jan 23, 2008 13:09:36 GMT -6
I heard a speaker from a florida high school who talked about their offseason program. They require everybody to lift in the mornings before school, even multi-sport guys. He said that if a high school kid can't recover by the time practice rolled around in the afternoon they weren't good athletes anyway! Exactly! We have 100% of our football players in lifting classes, and most of them are multi-sport athletes. They are still expected to do the same workouts throughout the year. The mission of our lifting classes is not to develop better football players but to build better athletes. We are fortunate that the other sports coaches here see the benefits and encourage lifting. |
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billyn
Sophomore Member
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Post by billyn on Jan 23, 2008 13:15:08 GMT -6
I spent two years in Kansas where they require after school athletics, and the only advantage I saw to it was that a lot of schools had weight training hours during the day where every athlete lifted. Therefore, kids were in the weight room year round. We are trying to get a zero hour implemented in the morings, and we are going to require every kid in football to enroll in it, so that they can continue to lift year round.
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Post by k on Jan 24, 2008 9:29:43 GMT -6
For example, we have a head wrestling coach who tells football players that if they come out for wrestling (he's hard up for upper weights), they can still do the same lifting they would be doing if they didn't come out for wrestling. We pound it pretty hard and I can't see a H.S. kid who could put in a full wrestling practice and matches while juggling the type of lifting we do. Seems to me that he is doing you a favor. At least in regards to the fact that he is letting you set up the cycles so that he peaks at the start of the football season and not during wrestling season. I'd shake the man's hand. |
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Post by ajreaper on Jan 24, 2008 11:26:33 GMT -6
I think it speaks poorly of any HC in any sport who still believes lifting should be avoided by any athlete for any specific sport- heck look at what every college program does year around. With Olympic athletes every sport to include things like archery are lifting. If they are still clinging to that line of thought they are committing coaching malpractice plain and simple.
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Post by coachmacplains on Jan 24, 2008 15:06:26 GMT -6
My perspective is from one who has been/is head coach in football, basketball, and track. I'm in a small school that places a lot of demand on multi-sport athletes, which involves the majority of kids. The difficulty we face in basketball ( with respect to lifting) is constraint of time and space; when I was head coach I would encourage AM lifts (as we do in FB), but for a lot of kids that is not going to happen. So, is it ideal? No. However, it is the sport most removed from their next participation in football (is same for wrestlers, though our wrestlers are on a lifting program), so they will have time to work with the weights following the winter, and they are at least physically active. As for track (spring), we hit the weights in a more concentrated way during track season than at any other point during the year, with the exception of our summer program. Just need to be sure we have them in track.
As to trade offs, I guess it depends on what you want to see from your athletic program as a whole. Is the marginalizing of potential strength gain worth it in order for other sports to be able to function within the constraints of time and availability of facility? I think it is, at least here at our small school. While I would like to see the basketball program have a weight program full time in season, I don't think we pay too dearly for not having it, given our situation.
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Post by ajreaper on Jan 24, 2008 19:34:06 GMT -6
LOL, whats so difficult about AM lifting? It only does not happen when it's not made clear that is what is expected. If you truly believe it's important you'll make it happen if not you'll give it lip service and justify to yourself why it's not possible. It's about creating a certain culture and attitude within your athletic program.
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Post by coachmacplains on Jan 25, 2008 13:40:18 GMT -6
LOL, whats so difficult about AM lifting? It only does not happen when it's not made clear that is what is expected. If you truly believe it's important you'll make it happen if not you'll give it lip service and justify to yourself why it's not possible. It's about creating a certain culture and attitude within your athletic program. Nothing hard about AM lifting; we have always had kids lift in the morning. I'm not going to make it a measure of their commitment to football, however, if the basketball players are not lifting at 6:00 AM. |
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Post by schultbear74 on Jan 26, 2008 10:08:45 GMT -6
If the Athletic department is forced to be on the same page by the administration, you have a better situation. Don't fight over kids with other coaches, fight for a program for all athletes.
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Post by tim914790 on Feb 2, 2008 15:43:43 GMT -6
has anyone had any success or even tried to implent an Athletic Department wide Wieght trainign and conditioning program? Tat way whether in class or afterschool the player is either doing the in season or out of season workout. The AD I assume would be very helpful in this and all the other coaches have to buy in and hold their kids accountable to it in order to make it work. Our basketball coach currently averages 3 wins a year but will discourage his kids from playign any other sports, they are the most talented kids in the school, but the weakest, wrost condtioned and least disciplined, his starting 5 could easily start for me on the football field.
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