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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 5, 2017 6:29:13 GMT -6
If you purchase an instructional DVD and use the content when coaching, can you take clips and put it on hudl? I know you can physically do it but is it unethical/illegal? Don't want to mess with guys' income or compromise their work.
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Post by pvogel on Apr 5, 2017 6:45:46 GMT -6
If you buy it and use it for instructional purposes isn't that what its for? I think its unethical and probably illegal(?) once you redistribute it for money or other kind of reimbursement.
Totally could be wrong though. I did not go to law school after getting my degree. Not the best consultant for legal issues. haha
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 5, 2017 6:46:19 GMT -6
Generally the law prevents distribution of copyrighted work, making copies for personal use (as in a backup) is not a problem. Putting it on hudl could be seen as a bit of a grey area, as you're giving access to the whole staff, but it's not grey enough that anyone will care.
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 5, 2017 7:00:38 GMT -6
I think it's probably pretty well understood that you're going to share what you purchase with your staff. I doubt under truth serum anyone is going to say they honestly expect a staff to buy 6 copies of their DVD.
I think if you're giving people access to it outside your staff, that would be a tad unethical if not illegal.
Frankly, even "trading" DVD's is pretty unethical if you think about it a bit.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Apr 5, 2017 7:29:51 GMT -6
There may be a legal grey area, but I don't consider it unethical in the slightest. It's the same thing as letting someone borrow it, except multiple people can use it at once. That's what the DVD was intended for, to teach people.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 5, 2017 13:33:58 GMT -6
You would only run into issues if you were to attempt to sell the HUDL clips. I have no idea how you'd manage that anyway...
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 5, 2017 14:50:02 GMT -6
Thanks, it would be for staff. Figured that was a better way than passing it around or burning copies
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 5, 2017 17:48:41 GMT -6
There may be a legal grey area, but I don't consider it unethical in the slightest. It's the same thing as letting someone borrow it, except multiple people can use it at once. That's what the DVD was intended for, to teach people. To play devil's advocate though, if a purchaser wants the convenience of being able to have multiple users at one time, then that purchaser can PURCHASE multiple copies and pay for the convenience. Saying "it is the same thing as letting someone borrow it, except multiple people can use it at once" isn't really a logical statement. What one is doing by putting it on Hudl is letting MANY people borrow it simultaneously...which is the same as having many copies while only paying for one. |
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Post by hunhdisciple on Apr 5, 2017 22:22:26 GMT -6
There may be a legal grey area, but I don't consider it unethical in the slightest. It's the same thing as letting someone borrow it, except multiple people can use it at once. That's what the DVD was intended for, to teach people. To play devil's advocate though, if a purchaser wants the convenience of being able to have multiple users at one time, then that purchaser can PURCHASE multiple copies and pay for the convenience. Saying "it is the same thing as letting someone borrow it, except multiple people can use it at once" isn't really a logical statement. What one is doing by putting it on Hudl is letting MANY people borrow it simultaneously...which is the same as having many copies while only paying for one. I think that's valid, to an extent. I thinking "teaching" DVD's are meant to be shared, within reason. I mean, it would be more useful to upload and share with the staff or team. If you're uploading it and exchanging it with people and it's just getting out to several different groups, that's a bit excessive. Although I guess the nature of the content isn't legally relevant. The more I think about it, the more I'm not really sure. I mean, so many of them are meant to be shared with the team or groups within the team. And HUDL is the easiest way to achieve that, all the way around. I don't know, man. This is bothering me now. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 6, 2017 11:04:09 GMT -6
I would be 100% comfortable with sharing something within the staff. Doesn't matter the format - HUDL, burn copies, borrow the one copy. Who cares. IMO, your staff is an extension of you, and I just don't believe that coaches who create this stuff would have an issue with sharing within your staff. I mean, are you going to implement the concept of the DVD yourself? Of course not.
But as soon as you extend it beyond that, whether it's "borrowing" or "trading" or whatever - to me that's different. Now you're basically undercutting the earnings of whoever produced the material. I suppose whether that rises to a level of being "unethical" is in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 6, 2017 18:40:31 GMT -6
I would be 100% comfortable with sharing something within the staff. Doesn't matter the format - HUDL, burn copies, borrow the one copy. Who cares. IMO, your staff is an extension of you, and I just don't believe that coaches who create this stuff would have an issue with sharing within your staff. I mean, are you going to implement the concept of the DVD yourself? Of course not. But as soon as you extend it beyond that, whether it's "borrowing" or "trading" or whatever - to me that's different. Now you're basically undercutting the earnings of whoever produced the material. I suppose whether that rises to a level of being "unethical" is in the eye of the beholder. A few things, again just as Devil's advocate : 1) The coaches 'starring' in the videos in many if not most cases are not the producers of the video, nor do they own the rights to the material. 2) Again, as I mentioned earlier, the underlying reason to use Hudl or burn additional copies would be convienence. If you wanted your staff to all see the info, you could have a staff meeting and have everyone watch at the same time. Or you could buy the materials for each coach. 3) Loaning something you paid for to someone however is NOT unethical nor illegal (providing you didn't make back up copies for yourself). You paid for THAT particular object or . You can trade/lend THAT particular object. You don't have to the rights or ownership to the concepts/material included in the object, but you do own that particular object. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 7, 2017 6:06:34 GMT -6
I would be 100% comfortable with sharing something within the staff. Doesn't matter the format - HUDL, burn copies, borrow the one copy. Who cares. IMO, your staff is an extension of you, and I just don't believe that coaches who create this stuff would have an issue with sharing within your staff. I mean, are you going to implement the concept of the DVD yourself? Of course not. But as soon as you extend it beyond that, whether it's "borrowing" or "trading" or whatever - to me that's different. Now you're basically undercutting the earnings of whoever produced the material. I suppose whether that rises to a level of being "unethical" is in the eye of the beholder. 3) Loaning something you paid for to someone however is NOT unethical nor illegal (providing you didn't make back up copies for yourself). You paid for THAT particular object or . You can trade/lend THAT particular object. You don't have to the rights or ownership to the concepts/material included in the object, but you do own that particular object. I disagree, I believe that's unethical. You bought it for your use. Giving it to someone else outside your program, whatever the means (whether trade, loan, sell, or just giving), is basically you transferring the title, even if temporary, to someone who didn't buy it. They have no right to it. Is it illegal? No idea. I'll just stick to ethics. This is knowledge for sale, and once someone watches it, they've gained that knowledge. You purchased that knowledge, now you're allowing someone else to gain that knowledge without paying for it. It's not like once you don't have the DVD you no longer have that knowledge. Give someone a music CD, and you no longer have the music (unless you copied it, but that's another story). Give someone a coaching DVD that you've watched, you still have the knowledge, and now they do too. Look, I'm not sure it's all that big of a deal. But it's certainly on the wrong side of a strict interpretation of right/wrong. If you were to put the content of one of those DVD's on a public access drive (say Google Drive) and post the link on here for everyone, would that be right, just because you bought it? There's no difference in the underlying act of loaning it to your buddy who coaches at another school or posting it on here for all to see. There's a difference of degree, but not of concept - people who didn't buy it are now accessing that knowledge. Again - big deal when you're talking small scale? Probably not. I mean, most of us exceed speed limits when we drive, but we don't consider ourselves criminals. |
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 7, 2017 6:15:52 GMT -6
First sale doctrine says you can do whatever you want with the physical copy you bought: loan it, give it, or sell it. It's neither illegal nor unethical.
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 7, 2017 6:19:02 GMT -6
Glad you posted that. So the physical copy is fair game, copying it and distributing may not be. Makes sense.
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Post by coacht65 on Apr 7, 2017 6:36:22 GMT -6
3) Loaning something you paid for to someone however is NOT unethical nor illegal (providing you didn't make back up copies for yourself). You paid for THAT particular object or . You can trade/lend THAT particular object. You don't have to the rights or ownership to the concepts/material included in the object, but you do own that particular object. I disagree, I believe that's unethical. You bought it for your use. Giving it to someone else outside your program, whatever the means (whether trade, loan, sell, or just giving), is basically you transferring the title, even if temporary, to someone who didn't buy it. They have no right to it. Is it illegal? No idea. I'll just stick to ethics. This is knowledge for sale, and once someone watches it, they've gained that knowledge. You purchased that knowledge, now you're allowing someone else to gain that knowledge without paying for it. It's not like once you don't have the DVD you no longer have that knowledge. Give someone a music CD, and you no longer have the music (unless you copied it, but that's another story). Give someone a coaching DVD that you've watched, you still have the knowledge, and now they do too. Look, I'm not sure it's all that big of a deal. But it's certainly on the wrong side of a strict interpretation of right/wrong. If you were to put the content of one of those DVD's on a public access drive (say Google Drive) and post the link on here for everyone, would that be right, just because you bought it? There's no difference in the underlying act of loaning it to your buddy who coaches at another school or posting it on here for all to see. There's a difference of degree, but not of concept - people who didn't buy it are now accessing that knowledge. Again - big deal when you're talking small scale? Probably not. I mean, most of us exceed speed limits when we drive, but we don't consider ourselves criminals. There are two concepts we are talking about - what is moral vs what is legal when it comes to using a DVD. Legally, there is no debate. Once you purchase a dvd, you have the legal right to lend it, resell it or run it over with your car. You can also "display" it, as long as it is done privately and not for money. This would include letting your staff watch it as a group. You can also make excerpts from it and use it in a presentation. This is all "fair use" under the law. What you can't do is copy the entire thing and give or sell that copy to someone else (you can make a copy for personal use or other "fair use"). This includes putting it on the Internet or on a drive share and giving people access to it. It also likely includes the Hudl scenario, though that is a much closer call, and an argument could be made there that it would be considered "fair use". Morally, it is a different argument and subject to debate. Personally, my morals fit pretty tightly within the confines of the law. That said, personally, I would have no moral issue with putting a copy on Hudl for my staff to use, even though that technically MAY not be allowed. To me, that is the same as us watching it as a group. I would not, however, feel comfortable making copies and give them to my staff. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 7, 2017 7:43:28 GMT -6
Agreed, two different issues.
And frankly, I loosened up my own thinking when I poked around that first sale doctrine.
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 7, 2017 9:44:19 GMT -6
Trading your originals is fine, trading copies is dubious, reselling copies is almost certainly a problem. Sharing it on hudl with your staff is a grey area because if the staff owns the physical copy you're not really distributing, you're making it available to people who already have access to the physical copy.
I'm curious about game film for public schools now, because government publications generally go automatically into public domain.
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