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Post by 33coach on Feb 5, 2017 18:08:37 GMT -6
I'm not sure how it is where you guys live but soccer is the least of our worries. He!!, the girls even call soccer players grass fairies. I think it just depends on the area, but I don't see a problem with kids playing flag football up to 6th grade then strapping on some pads. I think it would build anticipation and keep kids from being burnt out. in my town, soccer gets 1400 kids annually (they play 3 seasons year round)..... we are lucky if we get 150, 8U - MS
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 5, 2017 19:33:08 GMT -6
You can't eliminate youth football all together. The number of participants playing at the HS level would diminish greatly.
I agree with some others that kids don't need to be playing tackle until age 11 or so. Flag football for youth is great.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 5, 2017 22:34:05 GMT -6
Do away with football below the Freshman HS level and you just killed off the Sport. If you think for one minute that a kid that has never played football pre HS but has played all the others Sports is just going to show up out of the blue his 9th grade year...you are a fool. Youth Sports, all of them are fast becoming a specialization thing. Like it or not....agree to disagree all you want....I live it every year. Its a real thing. May as well do everything possible to keep football in the conversation regardless of what you may think otherwise. I disagree. Kids who don't play organized youth football still play football. It just won't be organized, padded football. They'll play 2 on 2, 4 on 4, or whatever in their yard or whatever patch of grass that they can find. None of my HS teammates played youth football because there was no youth football. One thing that we all had in common was that we couldn't wait to get to HS so that we could play on a real football team. P.S.: Very few of our OL played youth football. Couldn't make weight. Your situation is the exception, not the rule. PW with their silly weight matrix is beginning to crack and the League is suffering nationwide. BIG TIME. It has virtually disappeared everywhere sans CA, AZ and the east coast because they are still close to Orlando. Assemblyman Michael Benedetto's District is the Bronx NY. You would think with 10m people that youth football would flourish in NYC regardless. You would think that all youth sports would flourish. The opposite is true. Its a struggle to survive if your sport requires some space. Why? There is no where to practice. Literally. Requires some real innovation just to keep the HS Programs going. Once your old friend Bob Goodman finds this Thread he can explain further. www.maxpreps.com/news/vavycq0qh0-5BTvvkyB7hw/photos--union-city-high-school-football-stadium-sits-on-schools-roof.htm
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coachcorrea
Sophomore Member
Loved By Few But Respected By All
Posts: 120
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Post by coachcorrea on Feb 5, 2017 23:12:14 GMT -6
Youth Football has become big money many places and it's not going any were. Reading this stuff is garbage. The one thing i will agree upon is there are terrible coaches out there who make us all look bad. Pay it no mind it's all hot air. Youth Football will be around longer than us nobody will leave that much money on the table mark my words.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 207
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Post by mc140 on Feb 6, 2017 0:20:53 GMT -6
It was flag football until 5th grade where I grew up. I don't see anything wrong or bad about that.
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Post by CS on Feb 6, 2017 4:51:21 GMT -6
Youth Football has become big money many places and it's not going any were. Reading this stuff is garbage. The one thing i will agree upon is there are terrible coaches out there who make us all look bad. Pay it no mind it's all hot air. Youth Football will be around longer than us nobody will leave that much money on the table mark my words. I don't believe that its not possible...maybe unlikely. With all the concussion concerns and new studies coming out anything is possible. I truly think it would be beneficial to the sport as a whole if tackle football was limited to 12-13+
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 6, 2017 6:42:56 GMT -6
In terms of learning enough football later, My first year at the last school I coached at only had flag FB until school teams (7th grade). We went to the state final with kids that were the 1st flag teams in 3rd grade. Before that there was no FB under 7th grade. I would say that it can be done with flag up until @13 years old but it better be fun or kids will go to soccer. Before flag football, the school was more known as a soccer school. With that said, I think properly coached youth padded leagues can be OK also. They seem to be good at the school I'm at now.
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Post by utchuckd on Feb 6, 2017 6:54:23 GMT -6
How do the flag leagues handle line men? Is there still blocking and running the ball?
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 6, 2017 6:58:24 GMT -6
How do the flag leagues handle line men? Is there still blocking and running the ball? I think that's the beauty of flag football. Everyone plays a skilled position.
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 6, 2017 7:56:40 GMT -6
They still block, though. Ours rotated kids through each position.
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 6, 2017 8:41:51 GMT -6
Youth Football has become big money many places and it's not going any were. Reading this stuff is garbage. The one thing i will agree upon is there are terrible coaches out there who make us all look bad. Pay it no mind it's all hot air. Youth Football will be around longer than us nobody will leave that much money on the table mark my words. Truth
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Post by jrk5150 on Feb 6, 2017 9:56:47 GMT -6
So...my org goes down to 5-6 years old tackle. Pop Warner. I have coached at the 7-8, 9-10 and now 11 years old levels.
My son (now 19) started playing at 7, against my wishes. I started coaching when he was 8. I still coach, and am on our Board.
So that's my bias. But my bias comes from actual experience, and that experience includes being opposed to youth football under 12 years old when I started.
First, my opinion is that the right age to start tackle depends on the kid, but GENERALLY I believe 9-10 years old is a good age to start. The equipment fits, they're physically strong enough to actually execute fundamentals, and the collisions aren't all that violent for the most part. It's a relatively safe age to learn, you can make mistakes that don't separate your head from your body. Usually.
Starting at 12+ IMO can be a mixed bag. Collisions are REAL at that age. For anyone over 45 or so, the collisions in MS football are about what your collisions in JV football back then were like. To drop a kid into that environment with zero experience doesn't always work out really well. It will be fine for most of the kids who end up playing (meaning actually getting playing time) in HS, but not really for the rest. And there are a LOT of "the rest". Most of the kids playing in HS around here played youth. But MANY of the kids playing youth don't play in HS. If you drop those kids into a MS age game without the benefit of years of learning how to play, where they're up against the guided missiles who are going to be playing in HS, as they're voices are dropping and testosterone is kicking in...ugh. That's a recipe for disaster. That said, there are kids who can do it and are fine.
I don't see too many kids in our area starting football as freshman and making it 4 years. They just don't ever catch up to the youth football kids. Now, perhaps if there was no youth football you'd be back on even ground and it would be fine. But you better be VERY good at teaching fundamentals to 9th graders, or you're going to have some sick collisions that are really going to hurt kids. My son's freshman team was very good, and their games physically reminded me of my varsity games back in the 80's as far as speed, size, and the violence of collisions. And even back in the 80's it was pretty rare for a kid to come out for the first time at the varsity level and be okay. I would equate my starting as a freshman to someone now starting at 11-12 years old. I was fine. Then again, I was good enough to play varsity as a soph, so I'm not the majority of these kids...
Flag - not a bad idea, IF your version of flag includes some blocking. If it's the glorified gym class that is the NFL Play 60 crap...good luck converting those kids. In fact, for those of you with flag, if it's all skill positions, how much success do you have putting fat freddy on the line when he's been a WR for years in flag? I know in our experience that's a big ZERO - the kids who jump from flag to us don't make it. Game is too different, too hard.
As for my son, thank God he had tackle football. He'd have been awful in flag, wouldn't have stayed with it. If his first experience with football was at 12-13-14 years old, not sure he'd have ever played - he was NOT one of those kids that you knew was going to play in HS. As it was, he played through HS, was a contributing part of a conference winning team, and is now part of an FCS football program. Football has made a HUGE positive impact on his life. Without youth tackle football, I don't believe that would have happened.
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Post by funkfriss on Feb 6, 2017 11:13:42 GMT -6
First, I think anytime you are getting into a discussion it is important to understand everyone's perspective and experiences so you can understand where each person is coming from. That way you can take emotion our of it and learn from what others have to say.
That said, I'm in a rural community (about 350 in the HS) with extreme income variation. We have a high Hispanic population and our school district is about 70% free and reduced. When I say "Youth sports" or "Youth football" I am talking about anything below 7th grade. In our Youth sports program (all sports), we get very low participation from kids who come from low-income families. We have a 5th/6th program that was started about 8 years ago with our kids playing against other local rural communities. I think youth football is good for the fact that it gets kids interested in football and also gives kids more experience with the game. Generally, kids who played through the program turn into better high school players than those who were not in the program. Is that because of the youth program or do those who play youth football tend to be better athletes with better home lives where parents support them through sports? In my experience it is more the later.
That said, while I do think there are benefits, the negatives outweigh them. I will talk about the two biggest negatives.
1. Coaching - Our Youth coaches rotate every year (7th/8th grade coaches are licensed). We are rural so we don't have Friday Night Tykes guys who are rabid about coaching Youth football every year. Our coaches are dads of the players. Therefore, they aren't experienced coaches who know the game, how to teach proper technique, and how to progress kids through contact UNLESS they are coaches themselves, had great coaching when they played, or are willing to research and learn. We offer to help, few take it, most don't. I mean, any idiot can coach football... Too many have the belief that if a kid can't tackle he's soft so forget about him. Few have the patience or the know-how to coach these kids up and build their confidence to the point of competence. So those "soft" kids often quit, which leads to my next point.
2. High School Participation - I vehemently disagree with the posters who suggest that without youth tackle you won't get kids out later. Our participation numbers have slightly dipped since the introduction of Youth football. Could be a society issue, but to that I argue that our numbers for other sports have not gone down, and some have gone up. I think Youth football can decrease interest in football for two reasons.
First, at the 5th/6th level the sizes and athletic abilities of kids are tremendously different, especially when you are playing 5th graders against 6th graders. I know urban settings have weight limit classifications, and that's great, but we can't have that at our level. So, we can have a 65 lb 5th grader up against a 140 lb 6th grader. Not even close. For perspective, imagine you at ~ 200 lbs going against a 400 lb guy who not only doubles your weight, but is also faster than you! Good luck! Some kids get labeled soft and others just don't like getting their @ss kicked and never having success so they quit. That 65 lb 5th grader could become a 160 lb 9th grader who could play for us, but now has no desire to.
The other way I think Youth can decrease interest happens when kids start playing school ball in 7th grade. Those that weren't out for Youth think they are behind or not good enough so they don't go out. Or they do go out and have these fears confirmed when they don't know formations, plays, and drill like the Youth kids do. So they're the dumb kids who can't do anything right so they quit.
I hear it all the time, "Boo hoo, too bad for those kids. My kid can handle it," but the problem is at a rural community that relies on numbers to have success at the HS level this is detrimental to us. Parents argue that if we don't have the Youth program then we fall behind other communities, and I don't disagree with that which is why I begrudgingly support our Youth program. However, if you're telling me there is legislation that would make it impossible for any kid in any community to play football until 7th grade I would wholeheartedly agree to that.
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Post by coachstepp on Feb 6, 2017 11:17:57 GMT -6
This may pass in New York, but no chance it even gets heard in the South.
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 6, 2017 12:17:21 GMT -6
Back 30 years ago when I was coaching in Central NY, someone did a longitudinal study on how many kids who played youth (under 7th grade) for at least a few years played on the local HS team. 6 kids on the Varsity that year had played youth. The rest started FB in 7th grade or later. One reason, some of us felt, was because the little league FB played a 12 game schedule that had 1/2 of the teams playing at the Syracuse Dome for championships. Once they got to school it was a definite let down. They had achieved, in their eyes, a high level already. TOO BIG IMO. Where I am now the youth play 4-6 games. Keeps them hungry since the emphasis is on them eventually representing our town on the varsity team.
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Post by jrk5150 on Feb 6, 2017 12:17:51 GMT -6
funkfriss -
All good points. I don't KNOW what would happen to HS numbers with no youth football. I can only address what I've seen happen around here. Numbers are hurting at all age levels from youth to HS.
I wonder, in a situation like you describe, if there is a good reason to tie the youth and HS programs together so this statement - "We offer to help, few take it, most don't" changes from optional to required. Assuming the HS staff is more knowledgeable and skilled - and I'd imagine that is usually the case but it's definitely not always - requiring the coaches to get that training would only help keep the kids safer.
Then again - back up some to a bigger point. Why are we even evaluating youth based on its relationship to HS numbers? What's so important about HS? Youth football isn't necessarily a feeder for HS football any more than LL baseball is a feeder for HS baseball, or youth soccer is a feeder for HS soccer. Sure, if done right it certainly can help those who MIGHT play in HS develop. But that's not the purpose of having a youth sport, any more than the purpose of HS sports is to get kids ready to play in college. Youth football does and should exist for youth football, and be evaluated on that basis. It has just as much right to exist (or not exist) as HS football. There are NO - ZERO - NONE studies that even suggest HS aged kids are less at risk for concussions and/or long term brain damage than youth. In fact, what I've seen says the opposite, there are more traumatic head injuries the older they get. As for the long term/CTE, we're all just guessing, nobody knows anything for sure.
So why are we debating the right age vs. no age? Seriously - other than the bias that exists because this is a HS football coaching site, anyway. If you aren't going to let a 10 year old play football, why let a 16 year old? ESPECIALLY when the proven risk of injury is much higher at 16.
It is in your (plural) best interests for youth football not to be banned. Because if it is, HS football is right behind it, whether because of falling participation numbers or legislatively. There is no logical argument/reason to ban youth football that doesn't equally apply to banning HS football on any objective level. And, similarly, if flag is a viable youth tackle alternative, then ultimately it's a viable alternative to HS football too.
I think a lot of you/us need to remember that youth is technically everything under 18 when it comes down to it, and if "society" is moving against football for kids under 14, the next step is to go after HS football.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 6, 2017 15:42:58 GMT -6
I have coached youth football several times in my career and I can honestly say that we have never had a diagnosed concussion. And, we all pay very close attention to it. We taught proper tackling and blocking form and didn't have any issues.
Anyone that's coached or watch a youth football game can attest to the fact that the kids don't have a ton of coordination and just aren't big enough or fast enough to generate a ton of force when they block or tackle. So, a good tackle is generally square up, pop, wrap, and let the other little guy trip over you.The kids that have wrestled will shoot some exceptional double leg take downs, lol. Blocking no longer involves engaging with the face mask first so they don't rattle their little brains around that way either.
Honestly, the most horrendous concussion I have seen have come from basketball. We had a girl this year bang her head off of the floor so hard it took her five weeks to pass the IMPACT test afterward. Another kid did the same thing and he was out for three weeks. Neither of them have a history of concussions either.
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Post by tmtfootball on Feb 6, 2017 21:43:57 GMT -6
I feel we lose many kids to the weight limit issue in youth football. Many kids that in the future will not be linemen because they will hit the growth spurt and become running backs or receivers but are hamstrung by being lineman at youth due to weight which chases some of them out of the sport. Also, with the amount of pressure being put on us about concussions, I see youth tackle football only being available from grades 6 and up. We never had youth football when I was growing up and when you hit 7th grade kids came out of the wood work to play. I also now see the same level of burnout with youth football that little league baseball has been dealing with.
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Post by somecoach on Feb 6, 2017 21:52:06 GMT -6
Don't worry youth football is safe.
Leaving the local politics out of this, New York (City) (I can't speak for upstate) football is not as ingrained in our culture as the rest of the country. I am assuming majority of you grew up/coach in suburban/rural towns where the traditional "Friday night lights" happen. Football is just another sport here (to the regular population). The only people who show up to games are parents, some students, and some football alumni. Non football alumni generally don't care. Middle school football is literally non-existent. Our middle schools have no interscholastic sports, or even football fields. Luckily for us privately run leagues have sufficed in introducing football to boys all around the city and feeding kids into their local high schools.
With all that being said it's no surprise to me that a local politician is going to virtue signal against youth football to a non-football populace. Just another politician showing how "compassionate" they are.
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Feb 6, 2017 22:35:54 GMT -6
I remember playing peewee football and the equipment weighing more than me. Football is meant to be played by adults or at least individuals close to their physical maturity because of the grind you go through with training, the weight of the equipment, tackling, hitting, the physical dexterity like blocking.
You don't really think how unnatural some things in football are. Where else do you see someone squat with their arms extended forward while chopping their feet? Throwing a football isn't really natural compared to throwing a baseball or shooting a basketball.
It takes time to develop the skill set to do a lot of the things you see on the football field and when you're a kid and have no idea what the rules are, you're learning how to do simple things like throw the ball, dealing with uncomfortable equipment, and then throw in the violent nature of the game.
TL;DR
I think it helps the game by having kids be introduced to the violent part of the game later on. Rather than throwing everything at them all at once where half the kids are scared away, you introduce the game little by little so by the 7th/8th grade time they love the game and learned enough to have a decent skill set
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Post by seabass on Feb 7, 2017 0:51:12 GMT -6
I think the decision for my kids to play or not play a sport should be my decision as a parent. Novel idea; I know!
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Post by tiger46 on Feb 7, 2017 2:15:27 GMT -6
I always hate when this subject comes around on a HS football board. I find it sad that coach jrk5150 is the only coach that hit on any salient point, whatsoever. I'll even try to make it more clear. The point of youth football is NOT to make kids into better HS football players. Over half of youth football players will never play HS football. And, if there are a bunch of HS football coaches sitting around thinking they missed out on some real gem of some players because said players got 'burnt out' through youth football, they're living through some opium pipe dreams. Sure, it can happen. But, reality is 'burn out' because of youth football is just an excuse some kids give because they don't want to play. Go to a youth game. After the game, you'll see many of those kids running, ripping and playing their hearts out at tag, paper cup football, or whatever it is that they want to do. The football game was just another part of their day. As a youth coach, when I'm checking my players grades, it's not because I give a flying f#ck about how many TD's they may score then, or at anytime in the future. When I'm teaching them how to persevere through adversity it's not because I care how well they tackle. Responsibility is not a derivative of being able to throw and catch some g'damn ball. I tell all of my players that I'd rather see them make an 'A' in math than ever score a TD.
As the years have gone by, I've leaned more and more towards all sports being removed from puplic HS's. Wtf should our tax dollars pay for all those school buses, equipment, etc... that is hardly ever used? And, why should I care if some math teacher happens to be good at teaching my kid how to cut block? Teach them how to solve a freaking quadratic equation! That's what we should pay the teacher to do. Give that teacher a stipend for that! I'm all for it. TBH, why should that much money, time and effort be paid by tax dollars to find out which is the best damned 3A HS football team in Texas is? Who gives a _?! In reality, those kids would be better prepared if those public schools had funded military basic training since we've had an on-going 'War on Terror' since 2001.
Who gives a crap if the English teacher helped lead some kids to a state championship in anything besides a spelling bee or some other academic competition? And, by the same token, why should an excellent math teacher be ran out of town on a rail because his football team went 3-7 again? Did anyone care about how well he taught algebra before making that kind of a decision about his future at the school? Of course, with standardized testing being all the rage, I guess it doesn't matter as much anymore.
I'm all for teen-agers participating in all kinds of sports. I'm just starting to lean more towards it being private schools (if the parents want to pay) and private club organized activities. Let the parents buy the damned equipment. Pay to charter buses. Pay to have their kids learn proper weight training in gyms. If necessary, pay some coaches to teach their uncoordinated, nonathletic 'Next John Elway' to throw a football without causing himself a groin injury on their own dime. I'm good with that. I'd even pay to go spectate.
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Post by ccscoach on Feb 7, 2017 2:54:54 GMT -6
Do away with football below the Freshman HS level and you just killed off the Sport. Odd none of you can see this. Your participation numbers would dwindle to the point you'd eventually have to close up shop. And yes I've heard the argument ad nauseum that this move would have no adverse effect on your own Program. Maybe but eventually you will have no one left to play against. If you think for one minute that a kid that has never played football pre HS but has played all the others Sports is just going to show up out of the blue his 9th grade year...you are a fool. Youth Sports, all of them are fast becoming a specialization thing. Like it or not....agree to disagree all you want....I live it every year. Its a real thing. May as well do everything possible to keep football in the conversation regardless of what you may think otherwise. Or...bone up on your baseball skills so you can coach Fall Baseball or even LAX when it takes the place of football. That is already happening in spades. Im a really good youth coach only because I have already made all the mistakes and now know what not to do anymore. Currently I have conversations with maybe half my team every off season about returning to play another season. Why? Has nothing to do with safety and I mean absolutely ZERO. Has to do with the fact that football is a grind too them. Three practice sessions a week and then play one game. Each Regular Season is only 8 games. This compared to baseball or LAX where they practice once or twice per week and then play 3 or 4 games a week with a 25+ Regualr Season Schedule. They experience this in the Spring for the first time and are hooked. Then find out they can do it all over again in the Fall. Football has simply become....too much work for some and specialization is very real. Why couldn't you run flag youth program like they run Lax and baseball?
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Post by ccscoach on Feb 7, 2017 3:05:18 GMT -6
Back 30 years ago when I was coaching in Central NY, someone did a longitudinal study on how many kids who played youth (under 7th grade) for at least a few years played on the local HS team. 6 kids on the Varsity that year had played youth. The rest started FB in 7th grade or later. One reason, some of us felt, was because the little league FB played a 12 game schedule that had 1/2 of the teams playing at the Syracuse Dome for championships. Once they got to school it was a definite let down. They had achieved, in their eyes, a high level already. TOO BIG IMO. Where I am now the youth play 4-6 games. Keeps them hungry since the emphasis is on them eventually representing our town on the varsity team. The best run youth league in our section is run like this. They have 3-5 play flag in a town youth league. The best kids in town youth play all stars and play other towns. 5-6 they play 8 man tackle and get like six or seven teams from those 8 man teams they pick all stars that play 11 man travel and play the other towns. Beauty of it is they continue to play 8 man amongst themselves. I think they play five 8 man games and 5 travel games. head coach runs the league and picks the youth coaches all are former players that he trusts. Teams are given a play book and are made to run what the head coach wants in both 8 and 11 man respectively. Youth coaches are also given a basic practice plan and are taught drills that they are expected to teach to the kids. This program has total vertical interegration and continuity. Watching 5th grade kids call out varsity plays is pretty funny. Football here is a big deal and has been for a long time coach has 300 wins 2 state titles. But he retired after last fall wonder if it will change.
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 7, 2017 6:46:32 GMT -6
Not sure I totally agree with Tiger. Of course the academics are vitally important and I and probably many on this site would agree. BUT.... the development of everything associated with a TEAM (football being one of the best examples) is 1 thing the academic part of schools don't do as much justice to. Individual growth is the main emphasis with much less social and team activities than athletics.
A study back a long time ago found that 58 out of 60 CEO's of big companies looked at that year had been not only varsity athletes, many had been captains. Being a leader of many people (company) and working towards a mutually beneficial goal is facilitated by a well run athletic program.
I'm always impressed and proud of how well many of my former players have leadership roles in their life choices. Billy Graham once said a good coach can do more in a season then he can do in years for kids. Everything in Balance but don't get rid of school athletics. What if they can't afford to pay for equipment at a private club?
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Post by CS on Feb 7, 2017 6:58:57 GMT -6
Do you teach? And what state do you live in? I haven't seen anyone saying that the youth program is a feeder for the HS at all in this thread.
Your opinion is based on your experience as a youth coach I'm assuming. The reality here is that most youth coaches I have seen either have no clue or want to use peewee as a d!ck measuring contest.
Now there are HS coaches that are the exact same so I honestly believe its a wash on the coaching front. My biggest argument is that the equipment is expensive in the first place and most kids aren't equipped properly. Flag football is cheap and can teach kids a lot of football skills.
Throwing, catching, running, tracking a ball carrier are all great fundamentals of the game that can be learned by playing flag football.
Having parents pay for everything will make football a rich kids sport. By your logic, we should also get rid of all music programs, cheerleading, clubs and make our schools, even more, test driven robot factories.
Those programs are important to the kids developing as individuals and to some the only way to motivate them to perform in the classroom. By having them pay for everything you are leaving out a huge part of the population and in some areas killing the sport completely.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 411
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Post by SconnieOC on Feb 7, 2017 7:52:16 GMT -6
I see this a couple of different ways. In my own experience, If I had played tackle at an early age, I might have quit football. I was a way bigger than most in 3rd-5th grade, so I played OL/DL. In the league we played in, you could center sneak it, or run the guards on a pass (both had to be very structured, had to keep an extra blocker in to replace the guard.. etc. I know it's not perfect football but it was fun) and that stuff kept me interested. We started tackle in 6th grade, and didn't have any weight limits, plus all the flag teams coming together provided enough lineman, that I moved to QB, and fell in love with the game. And to be honest, didn't truly love it until high school because it was hard, we weren't very good, and coaches yelled a lot. I mean in middle school, we ran a mile as a warm up.. our coaches were bad.
I see no problem with flag football until middle school. You still block, you still coach all the fundamentals except for tackling, but it's fun. There is a reason the NFL Play 60 stuff is so focused on flag football leagues. My biggest worry is the future of the game. I see middle school as being a perfect time to start tackle. Kids can play flag, and if they start football in 6th/7th grade, they have enough time to catch up without being grossly overmatched.
Everyone keeps talking about collisions, and velocity with young kids.. I don't think that's the issue at all. It's the lack of shoulder/neck strength that these kids have. I always hear people say "well female high school soccer has more concussions than football".. that's a huge argument in favor of football. But those concussions happen because they aren't strong enough to be heading a ball. Their necks can't support the stability of their head. The force at which a soccer ball hits your head, is not that much different than two 8 year olds running into each other. I understand that hawk tackling and the heads up stuff is great.. but how many people don't teach that?! I know there are some unbelievable youth coaches, but there is a huge amount of bad ones, with absolutely ZERO understanding of how to teach it. They just yell, and act like big shots.. nothing good for the kids. I'd be willing to bet there are as many Friday Night Tykes coaches in the country as there are good ones.
My last point... my girlfriends step brother is 7. His mom is a chiropractor, and is very "body conscious". Where they live, they don't have a flag football league.. so 3rd grade on, is tackle. She isn't going to let him play, because she thinks football is dangerous. He wants to play but I doubt he'll get to. If there was a flag football alternative for him, maybe he'd have a chance to start playing, maybe he'd love it, maybe she'd feel more comfortable letting him move on to tackle with some experience.
To be honest, I don't know where I truly stand on this topic. I'm just worried about the future of our game and if young kids are allowed to play flag (by their parents) and it gets them involved in the game.. then so be it. These are all great points being thrown out.. I just hope we can figure it out before some idiot politician finds a way to screw it up.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 7, 2017 9:47:08 GMT -6
Do away with football below the Freshman HS level and you just killed off the Sport. Odd none of you can see this. Your participation numbers would dwindle to the point you'd eventually have to close up shop. And yes I've heard the argument ad nauseum that this move would have no adverse effect on your own Program. Maybe but eventually you will have no one left to play against. If you think for one minute that a kid that has never played football pre HS but has played all the others Sports is just going to show up out of the blue his 9th grade year...you are a fool. Youth Sports, all of them are fast becoming a specialization thing. Like it or not....agree to disagree all you want....I live it every year. Its a real thing. May as well do everything possible to keep football in the conversation regardless of what you may think otherwise. Or...bone up on your baseball skills so you can coach Fall Baseball or even LAX when it takes the place of football. That is already happening in spades. Im a really good youth coach only because I have already made all the mistakes and now know what not to do anymore. Currently I have conversations with maybe half my team every off season about returning to play another season. Why? Has nothing to do with safety and I mean absolutely ZERO. Has to do with the fact that football is a grind too them. Three practice sessions a week and then play one game. Each Regular Season is only 8 games. This compared to baseball or LAX where they practice once or twice per week and then play 3 or 4 games a week with a 25+ Regualr Season Schedule. They experience this in the Spring for the first time and are hooked. Then find out they can do it all over again in the Fall. Football has simply become....too much work for some and specialization is very real. Why couldn't you run flag youth program like they run Lax and baseball? because flag is about as close to real football as soccer is.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 7, 2017 10:00:08 GMT -6
I would not be disappointed to see youth football doe entirely, but my thoughts have little to do with safety. So what are the reasons? Without getting into a long winded diatribe, I think it's running off more kids than it's getting involved, the culture it is producing among youths and more particularly their parents toward football is disgusting and I just think it's stupid to have 6 year olds playing tackle football. I probably should have more appropriately put- I would not be disappointed to see youth sports die entirely.
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Post by coachfloyd on Feb 7, 2017 10:19:06 GMT -6
I can't get my two year old to pee in the right place all the time let alone run the right direction. when my 6 year old plays madden half the time he goes backwards. I would never pay money for him to play organized football.
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