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Post by coachstepp on Sept 20, 2016 10:11:13 GMT -6
Our current situation is tough. We have low numbers compared to neighboring schools, we are understaffed, and our varsity is 1-4 and really struggling. All of these play a role in the fact that we are not seeing our young kids developed, mainly because our varsity players get all of our focus during practice time.
How do you guys ensure that your young players are being developed? We have between 60-70 players and seven coaches. I coach varsity RB and DL, and am the only coach who works with the freshmen team. Another guy coaches varsity OL and LB, and is the only coach who works with JV team.
Thanks for any advice!
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Post by blb on Sept 20, 2016 10:17:16 GMT -6
It is very common in our state to have three Varsity coaches, two JV, two Freshman.
Obviously all coach both Offense and Defense (coordinate one or the other), a Scout team, and some Special Teams.
The teams practice separately, which gives Sub-Varsity coaches some autonomy and allows them to develop in more areas than if they "specialize."
Having only one JV and one Freshman coach is inefficient and short-sighted.
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Post by coachstepp on Sept 20, 2016 10:40:49 GMT -6
It is very common in our state to have three Varsity coaches, two JV, two Freshman.
Obviously all coach both Offense and Defense (coordinate one or the other), a Scout team, and some Special Teams.
The teams practice separately, which gives Sub-Varsity coaches some autonomy and allows them to develop in more areas than if they "specialize."
Having only one JV and one Freshman coach is inefficient and short-sighted. In which state do you coach? Our school is one of the top five largest schools in Kentucky. A lot of the teams we face have 10-12 coaches, with about four coaches that take care of freshmen and JV duties. We're definitely inefficient and short-sighted right now.
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Post by blb on Sept 20, 2016 10:46:23 GMT -6
In which state do you coach?
Michigan.
If you click on a member's screen name some have their location on their Profile.
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Post by carookie on Sept 20, 2016 11:00:01 GMT -6
Combine your players and then spend most of your time in Individual time (Indy). I cannot stress it enough, INDY!
In any situation, but especially yours where you have so few coaches to work with younger players, you develop skills by having players repeat keys, reactions, and movements; this is most efficiently done in individual time. Get the coaches to cut out the chit chat, and get the players moving and repeating the actions they do in the game. Be efficient with it, if you can have two players go at onces then do it (if you can have five do that). If there is an error correct it on the fly, then make them do it right but don't allow for players to just be standing around listening; we are what we repeatedly do, get them doing. Cut back on team, cut back on small group, cut back on chalk talk and film sessions, and spend more time in INDY.
In addition, develop them athletically; time is never wasted when you are making better athletes. Run sprints, run conditioning, lift weights, plyometrics and agilities, core workouts, etc. 9 times out of 10 the better athlete wins anyways, and young kids can do all this stuff the same as older kids, so you benefit everyone.
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Post by PSS on Sept 20, 2016 11:41:52 GMT -6
You have seven coaches correct?
Have two coach freshmen and assist with varsity on varsity game nights.
That leaves five. Each coach a position on both sides of the ball. Varsity and and JV players go through indy together and are being coached the same. Obviously the JV has to run scout for the varsity and this will have them better prepared skill wised to do so.
Next, devote 30 minutes to your JV for team offense and 30 minutes for team defense. Teach only the base plays and fronts / coverages / stunts. Even if you have to do it before school or after a Wednesday practice.
If you're not teaching them who will replace a varsity player if an injury occurred? You don't want to start at the bottom so it is better to be prepared.
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Post by coachstepp on Sept 20, 2016 18:05:49 GMT -6
You have seven coaches correct? Have two coach freshmen and assist with varsity on varsity game nights. That leaves five. Each coach a position on both sides of the ball. Varsity and and JV players go through indy together and are being coached the same. Obviously the JV has to run scout for the varsity and this will have them better prepared skill wised to do so. Next, devote 30 minutes to your JV for team offense and 30 minutes for team defense. Teach only the base plays and fronts / coverages / stunts. Even if you have to do it before school or after a Wednesday practice. If you're not teaching them who will replace a varsity player if an injury occurred? You don't want to start at the bottom so it is better to be prepared. That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's.
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Post by carookie on Sept 20, 2016 18:18:13 GMT -6
You have seven coaches correct? Have two coach freshmen and assist with varsity on varsity game nights. That leaves five. Each coach a position on both sides of the ball. Varsity and and JV players go through indy together and are being coached the same. Obviously the JV has to run scout for the varsity and this will have them better prepared skill wised to do so. Next, devote 30 minutes to your JV for team offense and 30 minutes for team defense. Teach only the base plays and fronts / coverages / stunts. Even if you have to do it before school or after a Wednesday practice. If you're not teaching them who will replace a varsity player if an injury occurred? You don't want to start at the bottom so it is better to be prepared. That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. I am in a very similar situation. I am the varsity LB coach, and the JV LB coach (all at once). I am also the JV DC (which doesnt really mean much other than I call the defense on Thursdays). Our JV team under preforms sometimes because they never really get a set time to practice JV team (and the special teams is kind of a joke), but they are ready to rock on the varsity level by the time they are upper classmen. So I repeat what I wrote above, a lot of indy time and a lot of athletic development.
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Post by coachstepp on Sept 20, 2016 18:23:17 GMT -6
That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. I am in a very similar situation. I am the varsity LB coach, and the JV LB coach (all at once). I am also the JV DC (which doesnt really mean much other than I call the defense on Thursdays). Our JV team under preforms sometimes because they never really get a set time to practice JV team (and the special teams is kind of a joke), but they are ready to rock on the varsity level by the time they are upper classmen. So I repeat what I wrote above, a lot of indy time and a lot of athletic development. That sounds very similar. The issue I see happening is that this year's varsity team will be the best over the next three years, judging by the talent/personnel in grades 9-11. And we are 1-4 so far this year. We're really missing the big picture.
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Post by carookie on Sept 20, 2016 18:39:00 GMT -6
I am in a very similar situation. I am the varsity LB coach, and the JV LB coach (all at once). I am also the JV DC (which doesnt really mean much other than I call the defense on Thursdays). Our JV team under preforms sometimes because they never really get a set time to practice JV team (and the special teams is kind of a joke), but they are ready to rock on the varsity level by the time they are upper classmen. So I repeat what I wrote above, a lot of indy time and a lot of athletic development. That sounds very similar. The issue I see happening is that this year's varsity team will be the best over the next three years, judging by the talent/personnel in grades 9-11. And we are 1-4 so far this year. We're really missing the big picture. Ouch. Well, sometimes the other teams just have better athletes and players; and in those cases you usually lose. Short of re-evaluating, and making changes, to your program as a whole there probably aint much you can do. You can give the young kids equal reps in practice, heck you can give them pt in the game to get them ready for next year, but if the other team's X's are better than your O's you probably won't win.
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Post by PSS on Sept 21, 2016 6:46:10 GMT -6
You have seven coaches correct? Have two coach freshmen and assist with varsity on varsity game nights. That leaves five. Each coach a position on both sides of the ball. Varsity and and JV players go through indy together and are being coached the same. Obviously the JV has to run scout for the varsity and this will have them better prepared skill wised to do so. Next, devote 30 minutes to your JV for team offense and 30 minutes for team defense. Teach only the base plays and fronts / coverages / stunts. Even if you have to do it before school or after a Wednesday practice. If you're not teaching them who will replace a varsity player if an injury occurred? You don't want to start at the bottom so it is better to be prepared. That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. Does the HC want to build a Program? It would seem that he would notice that players are not being developed at the lower levels and he would make a change. We have enough enough coaches to coach one side but our HC still coaches a position. I can't not even imagine mixing freshmen and varsity together for Indy. During this next offseason you might suggest re-visting how the staff is structured. It seems like an overkill to have 2 OL coaches and 2 WR coaches. IMO, those freshmen need to be separate and have coaches devoted to them full time. It is the only way that their skill level will increase with practice and game reps. Here, our varsity coaches even work with the JH program 3 days a week before varsity practice. Every varsity coach is also a JV coach. Seems like the other coaches on your staff need to buy in, including the HC.
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Post by coachstepp on Sept 21, 2016 8:04:08 GMT -6
That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. Does the HC want to build a Program? It would seem that he would notice that players are not being developed at the lower levels and he would make a change. We have enough enough coaches to coach one side but our HC still coaches a position. I can't not even imagine mixing freshmen and varsity together for Indy. During this next offseason you might suggest re-visting how the staff is structured. It seems like an overkill to have 2 OL coaches and 2 WR coaches. IMO, those freshmen need to be separate and have coaches devoted to them full time. It is the only way that their skill level will increase with practice and game reps. Here, our varsity coaches even work with the JH program 3 days a week before varsity practice. Every varsity coach is also a JV coach. Seems like the other coaches on your staff need to buy in, including the HC. Completely agree!
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Post by funkfriss on Sept 21, 2016 8:17:21 GMT -6
You have seven coaches correct? Have two coach freshmen and assist with varsity on varsity game nights. That leaves five. Each coach a position on both sides of the ball. Varsity and and JV players go through indy together and are being coached the same. Obviously the JV has to run scout for the varsity and this will have them better prepared skill wised to do so. Next, devote 30 minutes to your JV for team offense and 30 minutes for team defense. Teach only the base plays and fronts / coverages / stunts. Even if you have to do it before school or after a Wednesday practice. If you're not teaching them who will replace a varsity player if an injury occurred? You don't want to start at the bottom so it is better to be prepared. That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. Isn't that the point of your post? Aren't you acknowledging that what you are currently doing is not working? An understaffed program and the header won't coach a position? Really? WTF?? We've gone to platooning coaches and I love it. It is more efficient and less stressful on your coaches. We've only been doing it for 2 years, so we're not seeing the full benefits of it yet, but we can tell that the next couple years our guys are going to be WAY more prepared for Varsity than they have been in the past. With platooning, you give each coach only one position and he coaches all kids that play that position 9-12. That coach can now be a master at that position and theoretically coach the same kids for 4 years using the same drills, lingo, etc. Depending on your O and D schemes you should be able to get this done with 7 coaches. We're 21/11 on Offense and 4-2-5 on defense. We have 6 coaches most days, sometimes 7. We split our coaches as follows OffenseQB/RB - Mostly takes both working meshes, reads, etc. RB/WR/TE - Mostly WR/TE, takes the RB sometimes when QBs are just working footwork and throwing mechanics OL/TE - Mostly OL, takes the TE sometimes when working run blocking DefenseDL - Only works DL LB/Guns - Mostly ILBs, but will take Guns too when working run fits/reads DB/Guns - Mostly DBs, but will take Guns when working pass technique (we're heavy Man) So, during practices we'll have 9-10 working Offense while 11-12 work Defense for Indy and Group periods. Then we'll switch. Afterwards, the Varsity and F/S will separate and do their own team periods. We have 2 coaches coach the F/S (RB/WR and DB coaches) and 4 with the Varsity. With 3 groups and 7 coaches you could split this 2/2/3 or whatever makes more sense to you. One coach for both O and D sounds impossible though. I think it would be well worth the investment to take a coach away from Varsity to help coach up the younger kids. Now that we're about half way into the season we're focused mostly on Team stuff so we don't do much of the combined Indy anymore, however, you can tell during the F/S games that our kids are better coached fundamentally than our opponents and that's a cool thing to see. Plus, all coaches are on the sideline for at least the first half of the F/S curtain raisers so they are there coaching their F/S position kids during the games too.
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Post by coachstepp on Sept 21, 2016 8:56:23 GMT -6
That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. Isn't that the point of your post? Aren't you acknowledging that what you are currently doing is not working? An understaffed program and the header won't coach a position? Really? WTF?? We've gone to platooning coaches and I love it. It is more efficient and less stressful on your coaches. We've only been doing it for 2 years, so we're not seeing the full benefits of it yet, but we can tell that the next couple years our guys are going to be WAY more prepared for Varsity than they have been in the past. With platooning, you give each coach only one position and he coaches all kids that play that position 9-12. That coach can now be a master at that position and theoretically coach the same kids for 4 years using the same drills, lingo, etc. Depending on your O and D schemes you should be able to get this done with 7 coaches. We're 21/11 on Offense and 4-2-5 on defense. We have 6 coaches most days, sometimes 7. We split our coaches as follows OffenseQB/RB - Mostly takes both working meshes, reads, etc. RB/WR/TE - Mostly WR/TE, takes the RB sometimes when QBs are just working footwork and throwing mechanics OL/TE - Mostly OL, takes the TE sometimes when working run blocking DefenseDL - Only works DL LB/Guns - Mostly ILBs, but will take Guns too when working run fits/reads DB/Guns - Mostly DBs, but will take Guns when working pass technique (we're heavy Man) So, during practices we'll have 9-10 working Offense while 11-12 work Defense for Indy and Group periods. Then we'll switch. Afterwards, the Varsity and F/S will separate and do their own team periods. We have 2 coaches coach the F/S (RB/WR and DB coaches) and 4 with the Varsity. With 3 groups and 7 coaches you could split this 2/2/3 or whatever makes more sense to you. One coach for both O and D sounds impossible though. I think it would be well worth the investment to take a coach away from Varsity to help coach up the younger kids. Now that we're about half way into the season we're focused mostly on Team stuff so we don't do much of the combined Indy anymore, however, you can tell during the F/S games that our kids are better coached fundamentally than our opponents and that's a cool thing to see. Plus, all coaches are on the sideline for at least the first half of the F/S curtain raisers so they are there coaching their F/S position kids during the games too. I think those are great ideas. Last year we were platooned, as well, but we platooned our players. This year, our new HC said he wanted everyone to coach both sides of the ball. Our young guys were much more fundamentally sound last year than they are this year.
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Post by gibbs72 on Sept 21, 2016 19:15:21 GMT -6
If you can't platoon your coaches, then 1/2 platoon them. On our staff, we had 5 coaches for 40-50 kids. Each coach had a specialty position and an auxillary one. So, I was the secondary coach (and DC) and also helped with RB. So, I coached RB during indy time, but any team/ Skelly situations, I coached the defense. Our LB coach also worked with QB's, so he helped LB's on indy and QB's every other time. Made sure we got good looks in indy but our young/ scout teams were always getting coached up. Really helped us develop some depth the past couple years. Not always the best depth, but any depth is better than none.
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Post by coachphillip on Sept 21, 2016 20:04:01 GMT -6
Not trying to help as it seems everybody else has this thing covered. But, make sure you have "team players" on your staff because if I've been a varsity WR coach for who knows how long and somebody said "Time to restructure! Go coach freshmen!" That staff may not have 2 of every position for long. I don't know the guys, just been around and seen stuff like that not fly.
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 21, 2016 20:30:43 GMT -6
In which state do you coach?
Michigan.
If you click on a member's screen name some have their location on their Profile.
What division? 3 or smaller? When I got my start at Macomb Dakota we had 5 frosh guys, 4 JV, and 8-10 varsity depending on the year. Our staff at Clarkston is similar and so are the other D1 schools we see. I'm guessing you're talking D3 and smaller?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 21, 2016 20:55:16 GMT -6
You have seven coaches correct? Have two coach freshmen and assist with varsity on varsity game nights. That leaves five. Each coach a position on both sides of the ball. Varsity and and JV players go through indy together and are being coached the same. Obviously the JV has to run scout for the varsity and this will have them better prepared skill wised to do so. Next, devote 30 minutes to your JV for team offense and 30 minutes for team defense. Teach only the base plays and fronts / coverages / stunts. Even if you have to do it before school or after a Wednesday practice. If you're not teaching them who will replace a varsity player if an injury occurred? You don't want to start at the bottom so it is better to be prepared. That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. Are you the HC? If so --change how you are set up. If not (and based on your writing, it looks that way) then this falls under the "not my circus, not my problem." Just chalk this up to one of those situations where you are learning WHAT NOT TO DO as a coach. Something else to consider is Saturday Practice (if you don't already do so or if JV / Frosh games are not on a Sat)
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Post by blb on Sept 22, 2016 5:23:54 GMT -6
Michigan.
If you click on a member's screen name some have their location on their Profile.
What division? 3 or smaller? When I got my start at Macomb Dakota we had 5 frosh guys, 4 JV, and 8-10 varsity depending on the year. Our staff at Clarkston is similar and so are the other D1 schools we see. I'm guessing you're talking D3 and smaller?
I coached at schools ranging from Division 2 to Division 6.
At the Division 2 school we had nine paid coaching positions (including HC) which was cut to eight my last year, seven after I left.
All of the other schools had seven stipends if we had three teams, five or six if only Varsity and JV.
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 22, 2016 7:11:28 GMT -6
What division? 3 or smaller? When I got my start at Macomb Dakota we had 5 frosh guys, 4 JV, and 8-10 varsity depending on the year. Our staff at Clarkston is similar and so are the other D1 schools we see. I'm guessing you're talking D3 and smaller?
I coached at schools ranging from Division 2 to Division 6.
At the Division 2 school we had nine paid coaching positions (including HC) which was cut to eight my last year, seven after I left.
All of the other schools had seven stipends if we had three teams, five or six if only Varsity and JV.
I think we officially only have 3-4 stipends for the varsity and one for each lower level. We get little to know support from the school. It's amazing we are as successful as we are. Fortunately the community is willing to invest in good coaches (through fundraising).
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Post by blb on Sept 22, 2016 7:27:38 GMT -6
The schools I have worked at, when I asked because we had more coaches than salaries, would not approve pay from Boosters or fund raising.
I was allowed to split a stipend at the Division 2 school I was HC, but they had been doing that previously.
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Post by gibbs72 on Sept 22, 2016 8:55:37 GMT -6
I've been part of a staff that raised a lot of money through silent auctions, youth camps, etc and provided a couple staff members who were not approved to be paid a regular salary by the board with some of that funding money as "under the table" cash. Not sure if it's right or wrong, but they were good coaches, they deserved to be compensated for their hard work, and our program itself went out to earn the funds ourselves. Plus, it was the worst kept secret in the area!
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Post by coachstepp on Sept 22, 2016 9:00:04 GMT -6
That seems ideal, coach, but that is just not the way we have things set up. Offensively, we have a QB coach, RB coach, two OL coaches, and two WR coaches. Our HC does not coach a position. Defensively, we have a DL coach, DE coach, LB coach, and two DB coaches. Our QB coach only coaches QB's. Are you the HC? If so --change how you are set up. If not (and based on your writing, it looks that way) then this falls under the "not my circus, not my problem." Just chalk this up to one of those situations where you are learning WHAT NOT TO DO as a coach. Something else to consider is Saturday Practice (if you don't already do so or if JV / Frosh games are not on a Sat) I am not the HC but I have started this conversation with him. As I see it, this is not something we need to fix this year, but something we need to correct as a program. We are a Class 6 school, the largest classification in the state.
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 22, 2016 9:12:14 GMT -6
The schools I have worked at, when I asked because we had more coaches than salaries, would not approve pay from Boosters or fund raising. I was allowed to split a stipend at the Division 2 school I was HC, but they had been doing that previously. Situations like that make player/program development tough. They all talk the big talk and give no support, but also won't let you go out and do what you need to do. It's garbage. With that said, I guess most of us aren't doing it for the check anyway. Not being willing to pay coaches or let them find away to pay coaches are a part of a bigger problem many programs face though.
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Post by blb on Sept 22, 2016 9:18:55 GMT -6
Situations like that make player/program development tough. They all talk the big talk and give no support, but also won't let you go out and do what you need to do. It's garbage. With that said, I guess most of us aren't doing it for the check anyway. Not being willing to pay coaches or let them find away to pay coaches are a part of a bigger problem many programs face though.
r, now you're finding out how those of us who DON'T coach at Clarkston, Dakota et al have to live (or maybe survive is more apt)!
I once had opportunity to interview for HFC job at one of our state's largest, most tradition-rich schools.
I turned the job down because during the interview it was clear to me that the administration went out of their way to make sure Football was "just another sport" there.
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 22, 2016 9:34:25 GMT -6
Situations like that make player/program development tough. They all talk the big talk and give no support, but also won't let you go out and do what you need to do. It's garbage. With that said, I guess most of us aren't doing it for the check anyway. Not being willing to pay coaches or let them find away to pay coaches are a part of a bigger problem many programs face though.
r, now you're finding out how those of us who DON'T coach at Clarkston, Dakota et al have to live (or maybe survive is more apt)!
I once had opportunity to interview for HFC job at one of our state's largest, most tradition-rich schools.
I turned it down because it was clear to me that the administration went out of their way to make sure Football was "just another sport" there.
Fair enough. I've been at those schools in other states, but in Michigan definitely live in a different reality. I have bigger aspirations but don't know if I ever want to leave here. I have it good. Guess it depends on who replaces KR in a few years.
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