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Post by funkfriss on Sept 2, 2016 7:47:52 GMT -6
I've been coaching for a while and have had "smart" and "not so smart" kids throughout. Maybe I'm misremembering the past, but man does it seem like more kids have trouble picking up on things.
We did a pretty good job getting our base offense in, but we went to put in a couple wrinkles this week and it was as if the we got hit with the dummy stick. And I'm not talking big changes, these were really small (really like Joe Daniel's 5-minute rule for installing new stuff). We put in a couple new formations w/ a couple "new" plays that used blocking schemes we've already been using. Hit these hard for two days, then went back to the base stuff and we kept having f*** ups. Not everybody, but probably 1/2 the guys. Frustrating....
Anyways, maybe it's not the kids and there something we're doing wrong so I thought I'd pose the problem and see if anybody has good ideas for incorporating new wrinkles into the offense/game plan smoothly.
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pain
Junior Member
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Post by pain on Sept 2, 2016 7:58:22 GMT -6
I'm on board with this as well. I just don't think kids (not all of them) have football sense like they used to have. I'm not sure if they don't watch any football any more or what it is. I'll say something to make an adjustment and the kids look at me like I'm speaking a foreign language. I can then walk them through it, show exactly the reason for the adjustment, and they still look at me like it's the first day they've ever played.
But, to get to your last point, we don't add any "new" stuff. I'll add tags to what we currently run and keep everyone doing the same other than who the tag is for. It might affect one kid, might affect three. But, it seems to work for us. I don't have a lot of kids and they aren't very bright so we really keep things in the KISS method. Less frustrating for me and easier for the kids to "get it".
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Post by **** on Sept 2, 2016 8:03:57 GMT -6
I throw everything at my kids in the summer, like 99% of what we do, which is a lot. Then we just rep the p!ss out of everything till august. We look pretty average and lost at times during camps in the summer but by the jamboree we are pretty good at everything.
Our offense has the same problem you're describing. We will go from running power read, to installing jet power read and everyone is lost. It makes no sense.
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Post by brophy on Sept 2, 2016 8:06:42 GMT -6
I can't say its the kids, per se, but the way they are conditioned to passively participate, anymore.
There is no real need to actively think or problem solve much anymore.
The classroom test is based on the answers I ell you about every day. You don't have to deep understanding of the material, you just need to memorize the glossary terms.
Don't like being uncomfortable for being awkward? Don't worry you're special and doing everything right...don't change anything
Not having much success playing in the playground? Don't worry, just stop going and play video games all day
Can't make it in your video game? don't worry you have unlimited lives
Its not their fault, this is the world created for them
So, how can you deliver data to your players that they can't screw up? How can THEY identify the concepts (because pattern recognition is something they are actually good with)
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Post by **** on Sept 2, 2016 8:42:03 GMT -6
I can't say its the kids, per se, but the way they are conditioned to passively participate, anymore. There is no real need to actively think or problem solve much anymore. The classroom test is based on the answers I ell you about every day. You don't have to deep understanding of the material, you just need to memorize the glossary terms. Don't like being uncomfortable for being awkward? Don't worry you're special and doing everything right...don't change anything Not having much success playing in the playground? Don't worry, just stop going and play video games all day Can't make it in your video game? don't worry you have unlimited lives Its not their fault, this is the world created for them So, how can you deliver data to your players that they can't screw up? How can THEY identify the concepts (because pattern recognition is something they are actually good with) This is spot on |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 8:59:47 GMT -6
Develop an app or a game for their phones that teaches then your rules and you are golden!
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Post by gibbs72 on Sept 2, 2016 9:10:31 GMT -6
Honestly, the best success I've had with this (on the defensive side) is to break up the initial teaching into smaller groups, and when new things are involved, try to change only one of those small groups from their "normal" stuff. I call it "Pod" teaching. Doesn't always work like a charm, but it's helped.
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Post by funkfriss on Sept 2, 2016 10:45:50 GMT -6
I throw everything at my kids in the summer, like 99% of what we do, which is a lot. Then we just rep the p!ss out of everything till august. We look pretty average and lost at times during camps in the summer but by the jamboree we are pretty good at everything. Our offense has the same problem you're describing. We will go from running power read, to installing jet power read and everyone is lost. It makes no sense. Funny I just had this conversation this morning about wanting to get all of our base stuff put in over the summer. The problem, we don't get everybody there over the summer (probably around 2/3 there consistently). We actually spent the first week and half reinstalling what we installed over the summer which was good because we got more reps at it for those that already knew it, but it delayed some of our secondary stuff. |
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Post by funkfriss on Sept 2, 2016 10:52:19 GMT -6
I can't say its the kids, per se, but the way they are conditioned to passively participate, anymore. There is no real need to actively think or problem solve much anymore. The classroom test is based on the answers I ell you about every day. You don't have to deep understanding of the material, you just need to memorize the glossary terms. Don't like being uncomfortable for being awkward? Don't worry you're special and doing everything right...don't change anything Not having much success playing in the playground? Don't worry, just stop going and play video games all day Can't make it in your video game? don't worry you have unlimited lives Its not their fault, this is the world created for them So, how can you deliver data to your players that they can't screw up? How can THEY identify the concepts (because pattern recognition is something they are actually good with) And this is where I struggle a little. Back in the stone age when I was playing we knew the entire PLAY, not just my assignment on a play. We understood the concept. Today, kids just want to know what their assignment is and if I try to explain the why it's tune-out time for many. I'd love for them to understand the entire play and how our plays fit together, but they don't seem interested in it. Like you said Brophy, they've been conditioned for the easiest possible avenue. "Is this going to be on the test? Nope, ok I don't care." |
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Post by carookie on Sept 2, 2016 11:17:03 GMT -6
Maybe kids nowadays are not as apt to pick up on things, but maybe we are more complex than we have ever been. I can't imagine having to practice all throughout the summer to install the offense or defense we ran when I was in high school. Heck, I was rewatching SB XXXII the other day and marveled that the Packers seemed to run less formations or personnel packages then most of our opponents did last year.
Kids today are really no different than when I was a kid, and I am in my late 30s. I think we tend to judge the majority of kids against how WE were. I imagine everyone here knew everyone's job on every play when we played, probably a big reason we became coaches; but I knew a bunch of kids on my HS team who were screw arounds who never paid attention, stoners, and slackers- and we were a highly ranked team. I think there is a bit of a rose tint in the glasses.
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Post by dubber on Sept 2, 2016 15:22:11 GMT -6
I can't say its the kids, per se, but the way they are conditioned to passively participate, anymore. There is no real need to actively think or problem solve much anymore. The classroom test is based on the answers I ell you about every day. You don't have to deep understanding of the material, you just need to memorize the glossary terms. Don't like being uncomfortable for being awkward? Don't worry you're special and doing everything right...don't change anything Not having much success playing in the playground? Don't worry, just stop going and play video games all day Can't make it in your video game? don't worry you have unlimited lives Its not their fault, this is the world created for them So, how can you deliver data to your players that they can't screw up? How can THEY identify the concepts (because pattern recognition is something they are actually good with) So, I'm going to do something I rarely do and disagree with Brophy. Older generations (X and baby boomers) really don't "get" Millennials. They have basically the same paradigms (older gens), where the rules are set and you either live by them to attain success, or you don't and live with it. Hippies and Corporate-types. Millennials reject the entire premise that rules they had no hand in creating are applicable to them. (As an old millennial, I can tell you a college degree and a willingness to work didn't mean jack in 2008. The rules failed me, so I said F it and made my own way.) Respect is not an automatic because of someone else's position. Learning something "just because" doesn't cut it. Word hard without purpose just isn't realistic. BUT, if you give them ownership of the team, your entire world will change. Let's face it, like Dazed and Confused we keep getting older, but our kids stay the same age. They are not the ones who need to adapt. So, give them ownership, over explain the WHY, and get buy in on the plan BEFORE telling them what and how. Create a Peer Accountability Council where they handle certain discipline items. Basically do not assume compliance.......which a lot of you hate. But here's the silver lining: earned compliance will take you further than anything else. Earn the right to be their coach every day, and you will find they are BETTER kids to coach. That's been my experience at least. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 2, 2016 20:40:36 GMT -6
Maybe kids nowadays are not as apt to pick up on things, but maybe we are more complex than we have ever been. I can't imagine having to practice all throughout the summer to install the offense or defense we ran when I was in high school. Heck, I was rewatching SB XXXII the other day and marveled that the Packers seemed to run less formations or personnel packages then most of our opponents did last year. Kids today are really no different than when I was a kid, and I am in my late 30s. I think we tend to judge the majority of kids against how WE were. I imagine everyone here knew everyone's job on every play when we played, probably a big reason we became coaches; but I knew a bunch of kids on my HS team who were screw arounds who never paid attention, stoners, and slackers- and we were a highly ranked team. I think there is a bit of a rose tint in the glasses. We judge them not only against how WE, those inclined to become coaches, were, but also against how we REMEMBER ourselves. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 2, 2016 23:14:49 GMT -6
I've been coaching for a while and have had "smart" and "not so smart" kids throughout. Maybe I'm misremembering the past, but man does it seem like more kids have trouble picking up on things. We did a pretty good job getting our base offense in, but we went to put in a couple wrinkles this week and it was as if the we got hit with the dummy stick. And I'm not talking big changes, these were really small (really like Joe Daniel's 5-minute rule for installing new stuff). We put in a couple new formations w/ a couple "new" plays that used blocking schemes we've already been using. Hit these hard for two days, then went back to the base stuff and we kept having f*** ups. Not everybody, but probably 1/2 the guys. Frustrating.... Anyways, maybe it's not the kids and there something we're doing wrong so I thought I'd pose the problem and see if anybody has good ideas for incorporating new wrinkles into the offense/game plan smoothly. When I first read this I almost agreed because this year we have the football-dumbest group that I've seen in decades. They're not dumb kids-some are Honor Roll students-but they just don't understand the game of football. They're good kids and work hard but we've had to strip the offense and defense down to bare bones because they don't get it. BUT Last year's team wasn't like that. We ran the whole package last year. So, I wouldn't exactly call this a trend. |
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Post by natenator on Sept 3, 2016 6:17:11 GMT -6
I've been coaching for a while and have had "smart" and "not so smart" kids throughout. Maybe I'm misremembering the past, but man does it seem like more kids have trouble picking up on things. We did a pretty good job getting our base offense in, but we went to put in a couple wrinkles this week and it was as if the we got hit with the dummy stick. And I'm not talking big changes, these were really small (really like Joe Daniel's 5-minute rule for installing new stuff). We put in a couple new formations w/ a couple "new" plays that used blocking schemes we've already been using. Hit these hard for two days, then went back to the base stuff and we kept having f*** ups. Not everybody, but probably 1/2 the guys. Frustrating.... Anyways, maybe it's not the kids and there something we're doing wrong so I thought I'd pose the problem and see if anybody has good ideas for incorporating new wrinkles into the offense/game plan smoothly. When I first read this I almost agreed because this year we have the football-dumbest group that I've seen in decades. They're not dumb kids-some are Honor Roll students-but they just don't understand the game of football. They're good kids and work hard but we've had to strip the offense and defense down to bare bones because they don't get it. BUT Last year's team wasn't like that. We ran the whole package last year. So, I wouldn't exactly call this a trend. Wouldn't a bunch of players this year also been a bunch of them last year? |
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Post by fantom on Sept 3, 2016 8:33:58 GMT -6
When I first read this I almost agreed because this year we have the football-dumbest group that I've seen in decades. They're not dumb kids-some are Honor Roll students-but they just don't understand the game of football. They're good kids and work hard but we've had to strip the offense and defense down to bare bones because they don't get it. BUT Last year's team wasn't like that. We ran the whole package last year. So, I wouldn't exactly call this a trend. Wouldn't a bunch of players this year also been a bunch of them last year? Kids graduate and move. |
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Post by natenator on Sept 3, 2016 8:36:42 GMT -6
Wouldn't a bunch of players this year also been a bunch of them last year? Kids graduate and move. Wow, no returners? |
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Post by fantom on Sept 3, 2016 8:48:14 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Sept 3, 2016 8:51:31 GMT -6
I agree with dubber and I'm certainly not saying kids today are dumb or unmotivated. I don't believe my team in the 80s could handle what we implement today (I was, and continue to be, a football idiot).
I will say there is an increasing challenge in delivering the tenets of football (teamwork, selflessness, perseverence, masculinity) that kids today (Generation ME) have no foundational understanding that you can build from. The game should always be about each other (your teammate) but many are raised to sell each other out quickly because its the easy route.
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Post by morris on Sept 3, 2016 16:33:12 GMT -6
I can't say its the kids, per se, but the way they are conditioned to passively participate, anymore. There is no real need to actively think or problem solve much anymore. The classroom test is based on the answers I ell you about every day. You don't have to deep understanding of the material, you just need to memorize the glossary terms. Don't like being uncomfortable for being awkward? Don't worry you're special and doing everything right...don't change anything Not having much success playing in the playground? Don't worry, just stop going and play video games all day Can't make it in your video game? don't worry you have unlimited lives Its not their fault, this is the world created for them So, how can you deliver data to your players that they can't screw up? How can THEY identify the concepts (because pattern recognition is something they are actually good with) So, I'm going to do something I rarely do and disagree with Brophy. Older generations (X and baby boomers) really don't "get" Millennials. They have basically the same paradigms (older gens), where the rules are set and you either live by them to attain success, or you don't and live with it. Hippies and Corporate-types. Millennials reject the entire premise that rules they had no hand in creating are applicable to them. (As an old millennial, I can tell you a college degree and a willingness to work didn't mean jack in 2008. The rules failed me, so I said F it and made my own way.) Respect is not an automatic because of someone else's position. Learning something "just because" doesn't cut it. Word hard without purpose just isn't realistic. BUT, if you give them ownership of the team, your entire world will change. Let's face it, like Dazed and Confused we keep getting older, but our kids stay the same age. They are not the ones who need to adapt. So, give them ownership, over explain the WHY, and get buy in on the plan BEFORE telling them what and how. Create a Peer Accountability Council where they handle certain discipline items. Basically do not assume compliance.......which a lot of you hate. But here's the silver lining: earned compliance will take you further than anything else. Earn the right to be their coach every day, and you will find they are BETTER kids to coach. That's been my experience at least. Alright so how does one go about doing this? |
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Post by lions23 on Sept 3, 2016 20:27:27 GMT -6
So, I'm going to do something I rarely do and disagree with Brophy. Older generations (X and baby boomers) really don't "get" Millennials. They have basically the same paradigms (older gens), where the rules are set and you either live by them to attain success, or you don't and live with it. Hippies and Corporate-types. Millennials reject the entire premise that rules they had no hand in creating are applicable to them. (As an old millennial, I can tell you a college degree and a willingness to work didn't mean jack in 2008. The rules failed me, so I said F it and made my own way.) Respect is not an automatic because of someone else's position. Learning something "just because" doesn't cut it. Word hard without purpose just isn't realistic. BUT, if you give them ownership of the team, your entire world will change. Let's face it, like Dazed and Confused we keep getting older, but our kids stay the same age. They are not the ones who need to adapt. So, give them ownership, over explain the WHY, and get buy in on the plan BEFORE telling them what and how. Create a Peer Accountability Council where they handle certain discipline items. Basically do not assume compliance.......which a lot of you hate. But here's the silver lining: earned compliance will take you further than anything else. Earn the right to be their coach every day, and you will find they are BETTER kids to coach. That's been my experience at least. Alright so how does one go about doing this? Urban Meyer's book Above the line talks a lot about this sort of personal and unit accountability as well as the importance of the coach representing what he calls the 3 C's. Character competence and connection. Much of what he speaks on in clinics is the importance of the player leader to build a brotherhood connection and the position coach's and HCs ability to build a connection beyond football. He also stressed an inspirational quality of clarity of purpose. There is also an interesting TED talk on the power of operating from the Why? Simon Sinek As far as other ideas on this thread I think you'll execute what you emphasize so I think you get to a real fine line when you add things week to week. Be careful not to break any past rules in your concepts. Hopefully you are already operating from concepts if you are are adding things. |
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