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Post by leethefootballcoach on Aug 8, 2016 20:42:28 GMT -6
Looking for lots of input from coaches. I have been coaching 12 years and havent had this problem before this close to game week.
At our quick guard position I still do not have a starter. i am repping 3 guys and switching every play or two in practice.
We run wingt and he has to pull and trap and pull and wrap on LB on power and bucksweep.
The first guy is a junior, 5-10 190 wrestler who is the strongest and maybe quickest, but not smart and not physical on his blocks. Still asks which direction to go on bucksweep and we have ran it 500 times this summer at least. Probably blocks trap the worst of the three and is soft wrapping on LB on power and Buck.
The second is a junior who is smaller, 5-8 180, but still quick enough. he is more physical and a bit smarter, but has a horrible home life and misses practice all the time. Full week sometimes. Every-time we tried to put him in the starting lineup he would miss that day this summer. Probably best on wrapping to lb and second best on trap.
The 3rd is a freshman who is scared, but is 6-3 200. Faster top speed than the other two and runs trap better than any kid I've seen in a long time. Very physical on trap blocks, but soft on base blocks and doesn't stay on block for very long. Kind of lazy on the backside of plays also and plays too high, but definitely has the tools to be the best lineman we've ever had in a few years. (had both his brothers and they are 6-3 280 and 6-4 220)
I know we need to settle in on a starter to give him the reps, but I just don't know. No one stands out from the rest and we're building good depth, but first game is 2 weeks away and we have to make a decision. Someone needs to be the starter to build cohesion in the group.
(we lost our previous starter in this position this summer for disciplinary reasons).
would love to hear advice from others.
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Post by cqmiller on Aug 8, 2016 20:50:40 GMT -6
If they are so close you really think it is a toss-up... play the young kid. Aggressiveness and reliability will come with reps. If he plays and doesn't improve a lot, he is the same as the junior... if he plays and improves, by 1/2 way thru year 1 he is a better player, year 2 he is gonna be good, year 3 great, and could be a beast by year 4.
If a kid is scared or "not ready" as we say, then he has to play down and build some confidence and is a year out. Don't go with a kid who is scared. We have a kid that will be getting some solid reps on defense as a 9th grader, but he KILLS kids his own age and has never shied away from contact in any drill or team session. Kids we have pulled up with varsity for a practice who get timid as soon as they are up with the varsity go right back down.
If that freshman is on-par with the junior and not scared... play him and put the junior at another position where he can fight for a starting job and use him as the backup in case something happens. The scared kid has to play a lower level until he shows he is mature enough to handle it.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Aug 8, 2016 20:51:18 GMT -6
I like to weed one out in this situation and then play both of the two remaining guys in the first game if neither has separated from the other. Get them on film, grade them out and make your decision. But two guys competing for a spot is a whole lot easier to evaluate and manage the reps acordingly than three guys.
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Post by dytmook on Aug 8, 2016 21:20:54 GMT -6
All else even go with the young guy. I think teaching base blocks and staying on blocks longer is easier to teach than good pulling technique
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Post by coachklee on Aug 8, 2016 21:59:23 GMT -6
Guy 1 is out IMO...can't block your 2 base plays! Now move on as 44dlcoach has suggested... |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2016 22:10:25 GMT -6
I understand that kids sometime miss during the summer. It sucks, but it is what it is.
About 10 years ago, we had a kid who didn't lift a weight in our weight room all summer and missed a lot of summer practices. But once school started, he was at practice every night and worked his a$$ off. And all he did that fall was rush for 1600 yards, 20 TDs, and all-State honors. Also earned preferred walk-on status at a Big 10 school (our enrollment is about 315...the Big 10 recruiters don't make many stops here).
So, what I'm saying is that now that the "real" season is starting, what did or didn't happen during the summer should not be part of the discussion. No one was able to nail that job down during the summer so it should be 100% open competition. If the kid with the sad sack story is the best at the position, he should get the gig, provided that he isn't missing school and practice and is staying eligible. And, of course, that he is better than the other two guys.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Aug 8, 2016 23:16:42 GMT -6
Yeah the missing in the summer thing is frustrating and I would absolutely consider it as part of a "preliminary" depth chart for the first few days of practice, but if he keeps making all your mandatory stuff then I dont think you move him down for what he "might do" in the future. If he's showing up and doing what he should, and he's the best guy then play him.
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Post by raymul313 on Aug 8, 2016 23:26:47 GMT -6
If the kid with the screwy home life is the one who seems to be playing the best but can't make it all of the time during the summer, maybe someone who lives nearby could get him and bring him to practice. Lord knows I'm sure he'd rather be at practice than at home anyways.
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Post by tothehouse on Aug 9, 2016 0:35:26 GMT -6
Don't tell #2 that he's a starter. Give him reps with the young buck. Tell #1 you're an awesome kid...and go kick the dog outta people on defense. Play him at NG and let him wreck shop. #2 might buckle under the pressure of being a starter since it sounds like the home life isn't giving him the best deal. The thought of starting could be daunting because he'll be relied on. And currently...he's unreliable. Give the youngblood the chance to start...and have #2 push him...to see if he really does want to start.
My $.02
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Post by **** on Aug 9, 2016 3:22:59 GMT -6
If the kid with a terrible home life starts to show up consistently when practices start counting, he should play. I'm not able to make summer mandatory but if he shows up everyday in august and through the season, that's my starter.
My starting corner is 6'2" 180 with an awful home life. He missed days in the summer and I was pissed about it but once August came he hasn't missed yet. The kid is a freak and if he can be counted on, he will start.
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Post by freezeoption on Aug 9, 2016 4:38:28 GMT -6
as anders said, if the second kid can make it when the season starts I would go with him, otherwise the third kid, he will get better, first kid, sorry, but it is hard to fix dumb, I've had to play kids like that, you had plays where you know the kid still doesn't know what the heck is going on and praying your players don't trap each other, put the first kid on dline and let him use his wrestling skills there
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Post by coachphillip on Aug 9, 2016 5:59:50 GMT -6
Best kid plays so long as he's reliable. All things being equal, I always go with younger guys if older guys aren't better.
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Post by groundchuck on Aug 9, 2016 8:13:01 GMT -6
When does the OL function best? When who is in there?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 9:29:49 GMT -6
I'd go with the Freshman. If he has all the physical tools like you say the rest is on your coaches to coach him up and help him realise his potential.
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Post by coachks on Aug 9, 2016 14:36:42 GMT -6
Do you have a a JV team? If you do, keep the Freshman down. You don't want a young kid to develop bad habits because he is over matched and overwhelmed. Let him dominate on JV and go from there.
Give #1 a special wristband that says what play to run until #2 is reliable enough to take his job.
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Post by dubber on Aug 9, 2016 20:06:22 GMT -6
I know we need to settle in on a starter to give him the reps I don't think so..... Competition is a good thing; use it to self-motivate the corrections they need to make. |
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Post by rosey65 on Aug 10, 2016 7:14:53 GMT -6
all things equal, play the young kid.
Puts pressure and motivation on the older kids to stand out and NOT make things equal
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Post by newt21 on Aug 10, 2016 7:52:00 GMT -6
Do you have a a JV team? If you do, keep the Freshman down. You don't want a young kid to develop bad habits because he is over matched and overwhelmed. Let him dominate on JV and go from there. Give #1 a special wristband that says what play to run until #2 is reliable enough to take his job. This is what I'd do, if the freshman is playing "scared" let him build his confidence on JV and bring him up when he plays aggressively. It'll be better for him and your program in the long run. As for #1 and #2, if a guy misses practice (once mandatory practice begins), I can't/won't start him and depending on how much time he missed he won't play. I get having a bad home life, but if you don't practice you don't play. As for #1, have a buddy on the OL for him to go the right way. If you're no huddle, get him a wristband as stated earlier, if you're not no huddle, have someone tell him where the play is going. Make sure you go back and re-teach things with him too, maybe he doesn't get your numbering system? Find a way to break it down so he DOES get it. If he is continuously going the wrong way, it isn't on purpose and something is lost in translation. |
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Post by olcoach53 on Aug 10, 2016 8:58:57 GMT -6
I agree with the question about how the offensive line looks with each kid. If the gel is better with one of the other I would give him the reps and roll with that.
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Post by fantom on Aug 10, 2016 10:22:08 GMT -6
Looking for lots of input from coaches. I have been coaching 12 years and havent had this problem before this close to game week. At our quick guard position I still do not have a starter. i am repping 3 guys and switching every play or two in practice. We run wingt and he has to pull and trap and pull and wrap on LB on power and bucksweep. The first guy is a junior, 5-10 190 wrestler who is the strongest and maybe quickest, but not smart and not physical on his blocks. Still asks which direction to go on bucksweep and we have ran it 500 times this summer at least. Probably blocks trap the worst of the three and is soft wrapping on LB on power and Buck. The second is a junior who is smaller, 5-8 180, but still quick enough. he is more physical and a bit smarter, but has a horrible home life and misses practice all the time. Full week sometimes. Every-time we tried to put him in the starting lineup he would miss that day this summer. Probably best on wrapping to lb and second best on trap. The 3rd is a freshman who is scared, but is 6-3 200. Faster top speed than the other two and runs trap better than any kid I've seen in a long time. Very physical on trap blocks, but soft on base blocks and doesn't stay on block for very long. Kind of lazy on the backside of plays also and plays too high, but definitely has the tools to be the best lineman we've ever had in a few years. (had both his brothers and they are 6-3 280 and 6-4 220) I know we need to settle in on a starter to give him the reps, but I just don't know. No one stands out from the rest and we're building good depth, but first game is 2 weeks away and we have to make a decision. Someone needs to be the starter to build cohesion in the group. (we lost our previous starter in this position this summer for disciplinary reasons). would love to hear advice from others. First of all, whoever starts game 1 isn't necessarily the guy who starts Game 2, or 10, or even the 2nd half of Game 1. Since I don't know these kids personally I'm trying to take the subjective comments out of the picture. I don't see how Player 1 is even an option. He can't remember plays and isn't good at his primary jobs. Go play Nose. Player 2 sounds like the best option physically right now but he's unreliable. I'd go with him right now but make it clear to him that if he misses. he's out of the job. If it happens (Unfortunately, it probably will) he's out and the freshman is in. Player 3, the freshman, sounds good. He doesn't finish blocks? Most new kids don't. Finishing is not an natural act. It's a learned behavior that can be taught. It requires experience and there's only one way to get that. I also don't get what you mean when you say that he's scared. |
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Post by leethefootballcoach on Aug 10, 2016 19:55:58 GMT -6
Player 3, the freshman, sounds good. He doesn't finish blocks? Most new kids don't. Finishing is not an natural act. It's a learned behavior that can be taught. It requires experience and there's only one way to get that. I also don't get what you mean when you say that he's scared. I had a talk with the freshman and he said flatly "Ive always been the biggest and best and now there are guys who out weigh me by 150lbs. I'm nervous as hell in there." We all just laughed. We know that by game 5 he will have the confidence he needs and will play JV and 2nd string till then. (also he said he only weighs 175, not 200, and Im rarely wrong on how much someone weighs) We have went with player 2 for the time being. We've talked to him about his attendance and how he is letting everyone who has busted it this summer down. The freshman is getting reps right behind him but not as many. It has been a good couple of days. Thanks everyone. |
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