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Post by funkfriss on Jul 22, 2016 19:31:58 GMT -6
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Post by fballcoachg on Jul 23, 2016 9:55:48 GMT -6
Very interesting, I already know the answer but are any bigger news outlets picking this up?
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223 
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Post by jaydub66 on Jul 26, 2016 13:33:51 GMT -6
football is getting safer because of how we are teaching tackling. I used the gator roll or hawk tackling where the head is off to the side, you use more chest and shoulders and we didn't have any concussions except for one kid who tripped and fell in practice.
They are talking about removing kick off from college football and I know it and all special teams are the most violent and aggressive plays in football, but they cite how players are bigger faster stronger and the body isn't built to do kick offs any more and I say. "why not do weight limits on kick offs in NFL/NCAA?"
We see LBs, DL, and guys who are 260+ running full speed. Why not just only have guys under a certain weight do kick off and kick return? It's just an idea to throw out there. Kick offs are important to the game as are punts and field goals.
The game is getting safer and more data is coming out but we need to realize it's a very small sample size a lot of doctors are working with.
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Post by joris85 on Jul 27, 2016 7:44:50 GMT -6
We see LBs, DL, and guys who are 260+ running full speed. Why not just only have guys under a certain weight do kick off and kick return? It's just an idea to throw out there. Kick offs are important to the game as are punts and field goals. While I understand your sentiment, your reasoning isn't entirely accurate. Kinetic energy is defined as E = 1/2 * m * v^2. The higher the speed, the more irrelevant weight becomes, while speed becomes more relevant. Some examples: impact of 70 kg at 6 m/s generates 1260 J impact of 70 kg at 8 m/s generates 2240 J impact of 110 kg at 6 m/s generates 1920 J impact of 110 kg at 8 m/s generates 3520 J Additionally, what about teams that can barely field a team? should they just cover the kick with 9 players? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 27, 2016 9:00:32 GMT -6
Additionally, what about teams that can barely field a team? should they just cover the kick with 9 players? He did specifically say NFL/NCAA |
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Post by joris85 on Jul 27, 2016 9:55:24 GMT -6
Additionally, what about teams that can barely field a team? should they just cover the kick with 9 players? He did specifically say NFL/NCAA Yeah, I missed that... However, Europe and texas highschools play under ncaa rules, so it would be an issue there (well, at least an issue for Europe) |
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 27, 2016 10:06:03 GMT -6
We see LBs, DL, and guys who are 260+ running full speed. Why not just only have guys under a certain weight do kick off and kick return? It's just an idea to throw out there. Kick offs are important to the game as are punts and field goals. While I understand your sentiment, your reasoning isn't entirely accurate. Kinetic energy is defined as E = 1/2 * m * v^2. The higher the speed, the more irrelevant weight becomes, while speed becomes more relevant. Some examples: impact of 70 kg at 6 m/s generates 1260 J impact of 70 kg at 8 m/s generates 2240 J impact of 110 kg at 6 m/s generates 1920 J impact of 110 kg at 8 m/s generates 3520 J Additionally, what about teams that can barely field a team? should they just cover the kick with 9 players? Yeah but conservation of momentum is by far the more important consideration. |
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Jul 27, 2016 10:29:20 GMT -6
My whole thing was just an Idea and I know it be hard to do but you know we have 6'3 260 LBs running down hill full speed and blowing up guys. We all love big hits but it is basically pointless to do. We understand football is violent and physical but having plays and players where you knock someone out for no reason far away from the ball is not helping the game today and is just neanderthal like play.
Weight Limits?
Eliminate all wedges and only go 1v1 blocking?
Instead of having guys within 5 yards, have it even closer like right on the live of the ball instead?
I think kickoffs, punts, returns, etc. are key to the game regardless of how much love offense and defense get, and it eliminates, 10-20 plays a game you can get younger guys on the field outside of JV games.
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Post by **** on Jul 27, 2016 13:30:38 GMT -6
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Post by joris85 on Jul 28, 2016 0:28:20 GMT -6
While I understand your sentiment, your reasoning isn't entirely accurate. Kinetic energy is defined as E = 1/2 * m * v^2. The higher the speed, the more irrelevant weight becomes, while speed becomes more relevant. Some examples: impact of 70 kg at 6 m/s generates 1260 J impact of 70 kg at 8 m/s generates 2240 J impact of 110 kg at 6 m/s generates 1920 J impact of 110 kg at 8 m/s generates 3520 J Additionally, what about teams that can barely field a team? should they just cover the kick with 9 players? Yeah but conservation of momentum is by far the more important consideration. And isn't the conservation of momentum in direct correlation to the kinetic energy (in other words, the speed) just before impact? You're probably talking about the fact that you want to accelerate just before impact as that's what you do when you essentially power clean through the hit, but doesn't that just mean you increase the speed at impact? Again, this is not affected by weight (except for muscle mass), so I think my argument still stands. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 28, 2016 5:47:41 GMT -6
Yeah but conservation of momentum is by far the more important consideration. And isn't the conservation of momentum in direct correlation to the kinetic energy (in other words, the speed) just before impact? You're probably talking about the fact that you want to accelerate just before impact as that's what you do when you essentially power clean through the hit, but doesn't that just mean you increase the speed at impact? Again, this is not affected by weight (except for muscle mass), so I think my argument still stands. No it's an important distinction because conservation of momentum is, first of all, a scalar quantity, and second allows for the transformation of energy. The exponent on the velocity also means there are some cheats for its conservation that make it difficult to use energy as a means of determining forces in a collision. Outside of billiards there's really no such thing as an elastic collision. Conservation of momentum is a vector concept and is directly proportional to both mass and velocity, and it doesn't allow for transformation to other forms of energy. The only way to create or destroy momentum is by applying force or cancelling with another vector. Put it this way: if the outcomes of collisions were determined by conservation of energy and not momentum, the NFL would be full of 5'7" players. |
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Post by joris85 on Jul 28, 2016 12:10:00 GMT -6
Okay, enough of hijacking the thread. I started a new one, because I love dissecting that kind of stuff, but don't want to pollute this thread any further  |
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jul 31, 2016 22:58:36 GMT -6
Bottom line what's gonna hurt more,
Getting hit by a guy running 15 mph weighing 180
Or hit by a guy weighing 260 running 15 mph
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Post by joris85 on Aug 1, 2016 0:07:42 GMT -6
Bottom line what's gonna hurt more, Getting hit by a guy running 15 mph weighing 180 Or hit by a guy weighing 260 running 15 mph Check the physics in football thread for that, so we can talk about the study on concussions in this one. You will find your answer in Chris Clement's post. |
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