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Post by kobecoach on Jul 15, 2016 15:28:15 GMT -6
I have just become a High School Football coach in southern Alabama and I have never played High School Football so I am quite new to what the overall responsibilities are for all coaches on the staff. I am now a WR's coach and i'm doing quite well. I have studied lots and prepared for the upcoming summer camp which is right around the corner.
Recently I visited Alabama (spring) to watch spring practice as invited by 2 other assistants on our team and 2 other programs from the area by the Alabama coaching staff. I got a chance to meet coach Saban for about an hour and we all just went over coaching philosophies and strategy.
The one thing I noticed while watching Coach Saban was that he coached only the DB's. He never not once went over to other positions.
so my question is does Coach Nick Saban or other head coaches or assistants know everything. Do they know all the techniques and tips on how to coach DL or WR or Special Teams. I have noticed in my first year that our QB coach doesn't know how to properly coach WR's and we had a meeting and he told me straight up ''WR's are your job I do not know honestly how to coach WRs'' so that got me thinking and brought me here to ask you all this question.
I was told by a high profile coach in the state and he told me many coaches who coach multiple positions fake it and do a disservice to themselves and to the team. Some Defensive coaches do not even know proper terminology of the offense.
Your thoughts? and how this relates to Nick Saban a great coach.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Jul 15, 2016 16:27:01 GMT -6
Saban sets the tone for his program, and has a strict set of guidelines for his assistants. That being said, Saban knows what to look for when hiring assistants. He only surrounds himself with the cream of the crop. Saban is one of the best coaches in the nation, so I'm sure he has a wide range of knowledge on all positions. That doesn't mean he doesn't delegate responsibilities. He has an idea of what he wants for the offense, but lets Kiffin do his job. As it relates to high school, a good head coach should have an idea of what he wants for every position, and should have a general understanding of their responsibilities, but it doesn't mean they have to micromanage their assistants
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Post by natenator on Jul 15, 2016 16:39:16 GMT -6
As a DC I can coach every position (except for FS - I struggle with that a bit) on our defense including the minor details required for each position as it fits within my defensive philosophy.
Every year when I sit down to refine my system from the previous season I start by evaluating our play and whether the practices drills we use are showing up on game video. If not, I try to understand where the breakdown was and whether or not we need to scrap the drill, find a way to enhance it or change how we teach it. I then spend a lot of time with clinic material (in person, books or DVD's) to see what technique or scheme improvements/adjustments I can make and then I work hard to understand all the nuances and details so that I can implement it.
The skinny of it is, if it my defense then I better know every single detail required because you never know when you'll be coaching a position group that you didn't intended on coaching or (most often) having a coach on your staff who doesn't really know what they are doing so you have to teach them so they can teach the players.
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Post by bigmoot on Jul 15, 2016 17:04:59 GMT -6
As a HC you need to be able to coach the coaches. Best HC I ever worked for (won 250 +, and multiplet titles) could coach every position on the field.
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 15, 2016 17:38:15 GMT -6
As a HC you need to be able to coach the coaches. Best HC I ever worked for (won 250 +, and multiplet titles) could coach every position on the field. Same. My HC is at the end of a 40 year career with a bunch of rings, he can and will coach any position on offense or defense at the drop of a hat. If he lost every coach in the program, he would find a way to coach the freshman, JV, and varsity squads solo. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 15, 2016 17:58:25 GMT -6
We talking just college guys or high schools guys too?
First program I coached in was an elite high school program. HC coached WRs when I was a player. When I coached there he was doing OL because that is his passion. He is a heck of a coach and can coach it all, but doesn't micromanage.
Where I am at now, also an elite program I am going into year 2. I don't know our HC as well because I am doing JV here. He coaches DBS and it took me a while to even figure that out. He does not micromanage either. He does meet for five minutes after each practice daily to go over what skills and drills they are working on the following day. I assume he could coach any position, but he has always done DBS as far as I know. He was working with my JV QB the other day and knew his stuff there, but generally stands back and let's his coaches coach.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 15, 2016 18:22:52 GMT -6
Also are we talking "micromanaging" or are we talking about knowledge of the position or what? I have no doubt in my mind that Nick Saban could coach every position (except for maybe kickers) pretty effectively. Defensive backs are his "specialty" and he could probably coach LBs and DBs as well as any position coach in the country. I am sure he would be a quality DL coach as well. However, would he coach college OL as well as someone who has been coaching college OL for 15 years? Probably not, simply because with experience comes increased proficiency. Could he after 15 years? Absolutely. kobecoach be wary trying to draw any connections between major college football and most HS situations. I would say that in many situations the HS HC better be able to coach every single position on the field, and (unfortunately for him) often he is going to be the "best" coach at each position. Remember Saban is at the University of Alabama and the lowest salary Saban's coaches are earning is probably higher than $250,000. He is going to get a lot of very qualified candidates. That isn't going to be the case in lots of HS situations. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 15, 2016 18:38:19 GMT -6
Saban's job is more like being the CEO of a company, he is doing his job correctly if he hires the best guys he can find at their positions and then trusts them to coach within the framework he's established for his program. There's just way too much to do at a level like that for him to be "hands on" in everything.
Like others have said though, that's a world away from most if not all high school programs, where a lot of the time the HC is by far the most "invested" coach there. A lot of HS staffs are filled by dads, volunteers, former players that are around college age, etc. So the HC may not be able to trust them to coach within the framework of his program because they may not be capable of doing that without a lot of oversight and guidance. Those guys may not even know enough to know whether or not what they are doing is relevant to what's happening on Friday night if they are inexperienced.
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Post by tabs52 on Jul 16, 2016 7:57:42 GMT -6
I am under a coach who can coach every position or give tips for every position but doesn't unless necessary. He coaches the QB and lets everyone coach their position. I feel that if a HC who has a position to coach tries coach everything can not give enough attention to what they need to do. That being said I feel an HC should be able to coach every position or be able give pointers for every position.
One piece of advice, we had guy come on a few years ago who also coaches our WR's, he a does a good job with his position but when it comes to understand the game concepts itself he is still struggling, since you never played my advice to you is sit with you HC and pick his brain on the why's of game
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 16, 2016 13:07:15 GMT -6
HC has to be able to coach the coaches. This can take different forms: maybe he's the guy who can coach every position, or maybe instead he sets the tone for the program, the fundamentals of the program (hard work, effort, discipline, energy, etc) and can challenge the coaches to make sure they are coming up with the best drills and most efficient use of resources/time without necessarily being able to coach the DBs on Tuesday and the OLine on Wednesday. That might not be realistic, but it doesn't mean you can't be a "great" HC.
Though the guys who tend to be legendary like the Belichicks, Paul Browns, etc., could coach any position on the field if they wanted. And while Saban spends his time with DBs, that guy knows plenty about offense and every other position on defense, too.
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Post by bigmoot on Jul 16, 2016 13:41:20 GMT -6
It's been said on here before...young coaches, learn to coach OL and DBs.
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Post by **** on Jul 16, 2016 19:37:14 GMT -6
If you want to be great then you will learn to coach every position on both sides of the ball.
As a DC I tell my position coaches how to coach the technique I want done. I give/show them the basic drills I want done to teach the technique. If they find a new drill and they think it would benefit us they run it by me before they start implementing it.
I am blessed with some great position coaches so I rarely have to go over and help/coach another group.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 16, 2016 20:05:59 GMT -6
If you want to be great then you will learn to coach every position on both sides of the ball. As a DC I tell my position coaches how to coach the technique I want done. I give/show them the basic drills I want done to teach the technique. If they find a new drill and they think it would benefit us they run it by me before they start implementing it. I am blessed with some great position coaches so I rarely have to go over and help/coach another group. Having competent position coaches is huge, and probably uncommon compared to how things were when the economy was better and schools were able to hire teacher/coaches either. I'm the JV OC (JV is totally separate from varsity although we use their system/terminology). My WR coach is great and gets the X's and O's, but tends to freelance sometimes and isn't the best position coach, so I'll pull WRs aside during team and go over what I am looking for with them, without undermining their position coach. I also am able to float between positions fairly often, but I usually just observe. If I hop over to the OL which is where I like to go because that's the spot I know best, I just watch. I'll coach guys up if the OL guy is working with multiple guys in a drill and can't see it all, but I like the coaches to do their thing for the most part. With that said, I can coach the entire offense if I have to ever, and most of the defense in terms of position skills. I don't know much about our defensive x's and o's because we do too much IMO. We are a multiple D which means we can run pretty much any front with any coverage behind it, and we teach a lot of coverages. Technically our base is 2 but we live in 0 more I feel like. |
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Post by gibbs72 on Jul 17, 2016 7:29:40 GMT -6
A good HC should be able to coach any position on the field, but most HC's got to their spot making their bones on one part of the game. Ex: a coach is a good OL coach, becomes an OC with a good offense, and then gets a HC job. He should coach his staff on all aspects of his offense and what he expects (defense & ST as well), but I think he'd be doing a dis-service not spending all his knowledge on his OL.
Hope this made sense, but since Saban is one of the top secondary minds in the country, I think it's 100% fine for him to focus more on that part of the Bama program because that's where his strength lies.
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Post by chi5hi on Jul 17, 2016 9:06:20 GMT -6
General Eisenhower never fought in a battle and never heard a shot fired at him in anger...but he organized a victory by listening to, and trusting the specialists he hired.
IMO great coaches don't have to specialize in every position. I was never a Center...but over the years I paid attention and have a general knowledge of the position. Can I coach Centers? Probably, but not as well as a guy I hire for that job.
HC's have to assemble the parts so they work within the machine that he wants. He needs specialists to oil the gears (assistants). HC's have to know and control the big picture. Some coaches find their success by recruiting a bench full of D1 talent. Others keep their "big picture" small enough to be handled by average HS talent and great assistants.
The best thing I ever learned was how to ask an assistant coach "What do you think?" then pay attention to his answer.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jul 17, 2016 9:29:06 GMT -6
I'm a HC and when it comes to managing the assistants it's very rare I say to them something along the lines of changing the technique their teaching but I do discuss their approach with them. I'm not telling my DL coach "hey your teaching how to take on a double team all wrong. Here's how you do it." But I am telling him, "Hey coach I was watching your double team segment and you seemed to do a lot more talking and the kids didnt actually get much time to drill it."
The other thing I pay attention to is how they handle their personnel because most of our coches are off campus guys with real jobs and don't see the kids until they get to practice.... Nothing wrong with that at all but sometimes they may not know what's been happening with a kid. I try to make sure to text the position coach of a player when something has happened with him. The last thing I want is for a position coach to tell a player he looks like his dog just died when in actuality a family death recently occurred.... And at the same time I don't want a position coach coming to practice and acting all chummy with a kid who acted like a jerk in his math class earlier in the day.
One other piece of advice for new HC's is to continue to do what you do best. Most likely you were a very good assistant, probably the best assistant in the program. Therefore keep doing the things you did as an assistant because odds are once you became a HC, you lost your top assistant (you).
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 17, 2016 9:49:23 GMT -6
General Eisenhower never fought in a battle and never heard a shot fired at him in anger...but he organized a victory by listening to, and trusting the specialists he hired. IMO great coaches don't have to specialize in every position. I was never a Center...but over the years I paid attention and have a general knowledge of the position. Can I coach Centers? Probably, but not as well as a guy I hire for that job. HC's have to assemble the parts so they work within the machine that he wants. He needs specialists to oil the gears (assistants). HC's have to know and control the big picture. Some coaches find their success by recruiting a bench full of D1 talent. Others keep their "big picture" small enough to be handled by average HS talent and great assistants. The best thing I ever learned was how to ask an assistant coach "What do you think?" then pay attention to his answer. I would agree, but with the understanding that in many high school head coaching situations, the guy you "hire" (or is assigned to you, or who volunteers etc.) might very well be someone who knows nothing. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 17, 2016 11:48:57 GMT -6
In my experience as an HC, I could coach every position within the systems WE RAN. But,there would be a learning curve for other systems. It would take me some time to learn how to coach QBs and WRs within a system that involved a lot of throwing and deep route concepts. I could teach them proper fundamentals such as throwing mechanics, and catching the ball but everything else would be pretty alien to me.
The two toughest positions to coach are OL and DBs. So, a knowledgeable HC will coach one or both of those positions unless they've got some solid staff members to do it for them.
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Post by **** on Jul 17, 2016 14:48:04 GMT -6
In my experience as an HC, I could coach every position within the systems WE RAN. But,there would be a learning curve for other systems. It would take me some time to learn how to coach QBs and WRs within a system that involved a lot of throwing and deep route concepts. I could teach them proper fundamentals such as throwing mechanics, and catching the ball but everything else would be pretty alien to me. The two toughest positions to coach are OL and DBs. So, a knowledgeable HC will coach one or both of those positions unless they've got some solid staff members to do it for them. Just curious. Why do you say DB's are one of the toughest spots to coach? Because of the various coverages? |
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Post by dytmook on Jul 17, 2016 16:00:57 GMT -6
Up until a couple years ago our head coach didn't know squat about offense really. Just handed the keys to the OC, but he interviewed them and decided if their philosophy fit what he wanted. He's slowly worked his way into knowing offense and even assisted with the Oline last year. He said it was a great learning experience for him.
I don't think you could be a complete dummy about a position and be a good head coach, but if the head coach is a DB guy by nature and didn't realize an lineman didn't take a perfect step it would be a bad thing. he may know it's wrong and that's why he has assistants.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 17, 2016 17:39:14 GMT -6
In my experience as an HC, I could coach every position within the systems WE RAN. But,there would be a learning curve for other systems. It would take me some time to learn how to coach QBs and WRs within a system that involved a lot of throwing and deep route concepts. I could teach them proper fundamentals such as throwing mechanics, and catching the ball but everything else would be pretty alien to me. The two toughest positions to coach are OL and DBs. So, a knowledgeable HC will coach one or both of those positions unless they've got some solid staff members to do it for them. Just curious. Why do you say DB's are one of the toughest spots to coach? Because of the various coverages? It's not just the coverage. It's the shear amount of skills that go along with every coverage and run fit, coupled with recognizing various formations, shifts and motions and communicating with the rest of the defense. Hell, just teaching a kid to play proper man-man coverage takes time and effort. You want to keep life simple for your front seven so that means life needs to be more complicated for your back four. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jul 17, 2016 17:46:54 GMT -6
In my experience as an HC, I could coach every position within the systems WE RAN. But,there would be a learning curve for other systems. It would take me some time to learn how to coach QBs and WRs within a system that involved a lot of throwing and deep route concepts. I could teach them proper fundamentals such as throwing mechanics, and catching the ball but everything else would be pretty alien to me. The two toughest positions to coach are OL and DBs. So, a knowledgeable HC will coach one or both of those positions unless they've got some solid staff members to do it for them. Yes!!!! I always put my 2 best coaches at OL or DB. I even put a strictly defensive guy at OL coach because I knew he would learn it & work his ass off and we were pretty much competent enough on defense.... Every question on D should start and end with "how do you cover it?" While every question on O should start and end with "how do you block it?" |
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Post by **** on Jul 17, 2016 17:59:13 GMT -6
Just curious. Why do you say DB's are one of the toughest spots to coach? Because of the various coverages? It's not just the coverage. It's the shear amount of skills that go along with every coverage and run fit, coupled with recognizing various formations, shifts and motions and communicating with the rest of the defense. Hell, just teaching a kid to play proper man-man coverage takes time and effort. You want to keep life simple for your front seven so that means life needs to be more complicated for your back four. For the most part I would agree with that. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 17, 2016 18:07:30 GMT -6
In my experience as an HC, I could coach every position within the systems WE RAN. But,there would be a learning curve for other systems. It would take me some time to learn how to coach QBs and WRs within a system that involved a lot of throwing and deep route concepts. I could teach them proper fundamentals such as throwing mechanics, and catching the ball but everything else would be pretty alien to me. The two toughest positions to coach are OL and DBs. So, a knowledgeable HC will coach one or both of those positions unless they've got some solid staff members to do it for them. Yes!!!! I always put my 2 best coaches at OL or DB. I even put a strictly defensive guy at OL coach because I knew he would learn it & work his ass off and we were pretty much competent enough on defense.... Every question on D should start and end with "how do you cover it?" While every question on O should start and end with "how do you block it?" I always take over the OL, even if we have a guy on staff that knows what he's doing with it. It's not that I don't trust the guy but I would much rather be focused on the OL and fixing what needs to be fixed myself throughout a season, versus sitting down with him when sh-t goes south. It's much easier as an HC or OC to pull a guy aside and give him some drills to fix WR, QB, or RB issues. It's an entirely different ball game with the OL. The DBs are a different story and that just comes down to the entire coaching staff. I might have a helluva coach but I'll have him with the LBs or DL if I don't think anyone on staff can handle one of those two positions. |
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Post by canesfan on Jul 17, 2016 18:32:46 GMT -6
Having coach nearly every position I'll agree that OL and DB are among the toughest along with QB. A good OL and QB coach is invaluable. DB is tough to do right but you could get by with having an average coach there depending on scheme. If you want a complex defense or play a lot of different coverages your DB coach had better be good.
If I'm hiring a staff I find coaches in the following order: OL, QB, DB, DL, LB, WR, RB.
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